Speculation: 2018-2019 Roster Discussion #2 - Even Worser!

[Jamieh]

There hasn't been a player of significance lost to offer sheet in 20 years, Matthews won't be the first. The Leafs have the space to sign their best player. You want a significant player via offer sheet think more like Point from Tampa or Connor from Winnipeg. I don't see why Matthews would sign one knowing the Leafs will match and his chances of winning will be less??? Unless the Leafs are dumb enough to lowball him, then all bets are off.

 

[Jamieh]

You say the same **** day in and day out. You don’t have the slightest clue as to what’s going to happen, either. So stop making it sound like you’re so sure as to what will and will not happen.

I have history on my side.

 

[SR]

I have history on my side.

Times are changing my friend, get on or get the f*** out. Toronto is ripe for a sheet, whether it be by Arizona or 30 other teams.

 

[Jamieh]

Times are changing my friend, get on or get the **** out. Toronto is ripe for a sheet, whether it be by Arizona or 30 other teams.

It will be a wasted sheet that will only accelerate salary increases. How anyone could think otherwise is beyond me??

 

[RemoAZ]

lol, I give up. It was an observation, guy. Not something that has already happened.

It’s where the kids from. His friends play here. If Toronto doesn’t match it or cannot afford to match, pretty confident Matthews signs it.

I definitely think it can happen in either an offer sheet or a sign and trade where we give them back picks and players. It just makes so much sense for this organization. There's the state ties of course and he's not only a generational player but also a young player that's already developed so we can't f*** that part up. At this point I've given up on us drafting and developing players that would equal what he gets in money so who cares about the picks or budget/cap space. With how they've played without him, something like OEL at only $8mil and 2 or 3 #1's might entice them. Them and him not doing well in the playoffs certainly would help though.

 

[Jamieh]

I definitely think it can happen in either an offer sheet or a sign and trade where we give them back picks and players. It just makes so much sense for this organization. There's the state ties of course and he's not only a generational player but also a young player that's already developed so we can't **** that part up. At this point I've given up on us drafting and developing players that would equal what he gets in money so who cares about the picks or budget/cap space. With how they've played without him, something like OEL at only $8mil and 2 or 3 #1's might entice them. Them and him not doing well in the playoffs certainly would help though.

That is what I have suggested before, Matthews would cost OEL +++, I think it would actually make sense for both team's. If AZ had a center to offer it would be even more enticing.

 

[RemoAZ]

That is what I have suggested before, Matthews would cost OEL +++, I think it would actually make sense for both team's. If AZ had a center to offer it would be even more enticing.

Stepan for them to make a run with another vet.

 

[Jamieh]

Stepan for them to make a run with another vet.

I doubt he would move the needle to be honest.

 

[SR]

I definitely think it can happen in either an offer sheet or a sign and trade where we give them back picks and players. It just makes so much sense for this organization. There's the state ties of course and he's not only a generational player but also a young player that's already developed so we can't **** that part up. At this point I've given up on us drafting and developing players that would equal what he gets in money so who cares about the picks or budget/cap space. With how they've played without him, something like OEL at only $8mil and 2 or 3 #1's might entice them. Them and him not doing well in the playoffs certainly would help though.

If we know Chayka, dealing on ice assets will be a last ditch effort. Also knowing Chayka, he’s certainly a GM that I don’t think would think twice at sending an offer to Matthews knowing how much that single player would change the trajectory and course of this franchise.

 

[YotesFan47]

Remo, you ruined it, this was almost entirely a page of SR and Jamieh.

All that said, the bigger question here isn't if the Coyotes or AM could or would, its if we should.

AM would be the best player we've ever had by miles, but do we have enough in the pipe and currently on the team that giving up 4 1sts and using $16.6m is wise? That is the only question we need to ask and answer. If yes, send the max value offer sheet and put Toronto on the spot if AM signs it. If no then we move on.

 

[XX]

The 4 1sts isn't really an issue. You're probably a playoff team with Matthews pretty easily. I'd be more worried about the cash if the team is still at the floor. There's also the signing bonuses and overall structure. Could end up like some teams with 2-3 good forwards and a bunch of replacement level D that can move the puck. Maybe that fits Tocchet's system better overall?

But if you're going to spend money as an ownership group, Matthews buys you more than probably any ad spend ever could.

 

[YotesFan47]

The 4 1sts isn't really an issue. You're probably a playoff team with Matthews pretty easily. I'd be more worried about the cash if the team is still at the floor. There's also the signing bonuses and overall structure. Could end up like some teams with 2-3 good forwards and a bunch of replacement level D that can move the puck. Maybe that fits Tocchet's system better overall?

But if you're going to spend money as an ownership group, Matthews buys you more than probably any ad spend ever could.

If we are going to spend that kind of money, we have at accept that we have to be a cap team. Matthews isn't signing that just to make $133m, hes still going to want to compete. Even McDavid hasn't made Edmonton a perennial playoff team, the other players have to be competent and provide additional scoring and sufficient d.

 

[XX]

If we are going to spend that kind of money, we have at accept that we have to be a cap team. Matthews isn't signing that just to make $133m, hes still going to want to compete. Even McDavid hasn't made Edmonton a perennial playoff team, the other players have to be competent and provide additional scoring and sufficient d.

You'd need to have a billionaire that is specifically in love with the idea of hockey in Arizona for the Coyotes to consistently be a cap team. I think if that person existed, they'd probably have stepped forward by now. We're talking many years of double digit losses just to put the work in to rehab the team to where it needs to be on and off the ice.

 

[YotesFan47]

You'd need to have a billionaire that is specifically in love with the idea of hockey in Arizona for the Coyotes to consistently be a cap team. I think if that person existed, they'd probably have stepped forward by now. We're talking many years of double digit losses just to put the work in to rehab the team to where it needs to be on and off the ice.

Oh I agree, and it leads to the fact that you absolutely have to see Matthews as an 8 year, $133m investment that will likely take 10+ years to get your return on. It would absolutely have to be running the team the way we are now plus Matthews.

Also keep in mind (correct me if I'm wrong here), Matthew's cap hit would be the total sum divided by 5 years making his cap hit $26.56m over that span so we become a cap team much easier.

 

[XX]

Also keep in mind (correct me if I'm wrong here), Matthew's cap hit would be the total sum divided by 5 years making his cap hit $26.56m over that span so we become a cap team much easier.

I believe that's only for computing the offer sheet compensation to the other team, so that teams can't use a back-diving contract to lower the AAV a bit. Believe only Toronto can give him that extra year as well.

 

[YotesFan47]

I believe that's only for computing the offer sheet compensation to the other team, so that teams can't use a back-diving contract to lower the AAV a bit. Believe only Toronto can give him that extra year as well.

Ah ok I think you're correct, changes figures a bit and doesn't bring the cap impact.

Do you think Matthews would bring the ROI where making a play is worth our time, even if it hurts us in the short term?

 

[XX]

Ah ok, changes figures a bit and doesn't bring the cap impact.

Do you think Matthews would bring the ROI where making a play is worth our time, even if it hurts us in the short term?

If the incoming ownership group (if they exist) bakes it into their projections ahead of time and just bites the bullet, it'd be worth it. But if they are hoping to skim along with a more favorable arena deal and pay down debts/be a floor team, it's not really going to happen.

Matthews is basically an overpaid player like Goligoski above what Keller will likely get on his contract. It's doable but it makes your margin of error considerably slimmer.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Yeah...i'm hoping the new ownership group is really rich and we can afford to decrease our gap to the cap.

Better yet, offer sheet Matthews $13.5-14m and give up 4 1sts.

 

[YotesFan47]

If the incoming ownership group (if they exist) bakes it into their projections ahead of time and just bites the bullet, it'd be worth it. But if they are hoping to skim along with a more favorable arena deal and pay down debts/be a floor team, it's not really going to happen.

Matthews is basically an overpaid player like Goligoski above what Keller will likely get on his contract. It's doable but it makes your margin of error considerably slimmer.

If we were to move Demers, Goligoski, and Stepan, in addition to losing Panik, it would help to negate that impact. Combined salary they are at $16.9m next year (using Paniks salary this season). Moving those players would also help us to hopefully continue bringing in ELC payed players in the picks and prospects they'd return.

We've obviously accepted the salaries we have and plan on the Keller raise. We would then need to find some value adds or players to step up on D and I think we could manage the more I look at it.

I think we may limp a bit that first year but the next year we'd be ok. Offersheeting Matthews seems like a more viable option than it did at face value. TML would still need to decline but at least if they did it doesn't look all bleak.

 

[RABBIT]

We need 5 on 5 scoring. Like realllllllly bad

 

[TheLegend]

Just my $0.02 (or $0.03 Canadian..)......

There's already been talk of several teams that could offer sheet Matthews. If not just to get him, but to put Toronto in a position to where somebody could pry another top asset out of them down the road..

The pending cap increase isn't going to matter.

 

[Sinurgy]

I see no way Toronto doesn't match but I also think that's the point, to put the squeeze on them. The Coyotes would be the perfect team to do this because losing the picks doesn't matter since they typically draft so shitty and they can't develop prospects very well so Toronto will be waiting a long time before any chance at revenge.

 

[The Mentalist]

I think Dubas will match any OS . Lets hope he signs a 5 year deal and comes home as a UFA or traded in latter part of his contract if the Leafs continue to get bounced out early in the postseason.

 

[Jakey53]

From what I gather, Toronto can’t afford to tie up 51 mil on 8 players and expect to continue to be competitive. It’s going to come down to marner or Matthews.

To answer your question though, yes I believe Chayka has a chance at Matthews if Toronto we’re not willing to match.

Really? TO will not lose Matthews to an offer sheet. It would be nice, but not happening.

 

[Jakey53]

With today's chatter of Houston I'm sure Matthews is just chomping at the bit to sign that offer sheet?? You seriously think if the Leafs Can't get under the Cap they will make the choice to keep one of Matthews or Marner???? Every other player will go first before either of those leave via offer sheet.

We aren't moving to Houston and we will never get Matthews.