Prospect Info: 2018-2019 In The System: Springfield Thunderbirds, CHL, NCAA, Europe, etc.

[CHGoalie27]

Yes, you're pointing out specific defensemen at various situations etc. etc... And hey, maybe the 6 goal game was actually a better performance by Monty than some of his other games.

"etc. etc." ? I didn't type that until here just now....and maybe! Hard to tell what the stats mean without looking at the individual instances. Score was 6-5, who controlled the game? Sticking to theme- 5 controlled the game. Then why did they lose? (Here's where the stats (should) end and our opinions *may* split).

explain this to me - how comes Sateri is less affected by the bad defence than Montembeault? All the data suggests that he is, as reflected by the number of goals he gives up, the number of times he had to be pulled, the number of wins to his name. Does the team play so much more aggresively with Monty for some reason? If so, their coach is an idiot as it's clearly not working.

This is where you would have to acknowledge what I'm asking for you to answer and acknowledged to be more than just "etc, etc" because all those "etc, etc"s explain that.
What if they aren't truly any less affected, one just had to deal with it...? Plus, not for nothing because this has nothing to do with anyone else, but Sateri was most obviously playing at the very top of his game. Goalies have hot and cold streaks too. Bad luck, whatever...sometimes the planets align. Maybe a goalies style is better for some teams than others. A goalie playing deep in the net requires one type of defense unit while an aggressive challenging goalie needs a different type.

How were his stats thru the first number of games? Terrible? Well you said the entire team was terrible so lets lump that in with the stats from when the team was doing good, then chemistry changed with the particular call ups...I mean I'm overwhelmed trying to not overcrowd with examples as to why lumped stats me nothing.

can say Monty got screwed by bad defense in games X,Y,Z - and that would work if the difference between their numbers wasn't so big.

You absolutely can say that, it's your constitutional right. Is it the most accurate way to judge things- vaguely? No. Especially when it was games A thru E then H-L and P-W that the team looked like shit and Sateri got to play E thru I then L to P....and still that doesn't explain how many times the defense were responsible.

Again I ask- what's the stat for how many goals were on him and how many goals were because a skater missed his mark? Do they have that stat? And then again for Sateri?

I mean if a goalie1 see 40 shots from the perimeter and stops 39 he's gonna have much better numbers than goalie2 on the other end who saw 21 quality shots and stopped 17. What if the roles were reversed? Would the goalies have the same result if the switch was flipped?

 

[CHGoalie27]

@letsgrowcactus also, when a goalie is pulled after letting in a few quick goals, his GAA for that game is crazy high and his sv % is crazy low. If one of those goalies has even just a couple more of those games of the sort, well that would explain a difference....so back to the circle, answer me this- now that we know Sam was pulled after letting 4 of the first 7 shots in, was he at fault or was his defense? Same question for the other 5 games he was yanked.

If you take out the numbers from the 6 games he was pulled away from the numbers for which he played complete games in, you'll see its not so big of a margin and how unfairly skewed numbers can take perceived value away from an undeserving player.

 

[CHGoalie27]

I wouldn´t judge only with the stats, but i know you also long into Hockey. I would see it that Way, as less you win, with also a normal or good preformence, also your confidence and believing fall.
I remember , saw an Interview with a Prospect Goalie from an other Team and he said how he get better and better and said. By winning Game after game and some serious you gain more and more believing in your abilitys and you dont have so much to think about. Maybe its not word by word correct but pretty near.

So i wouldnt judge it over the stats fact, but loosing all the Time doesnt help any Goalie in his development.

...and hey, if losing all the time isn't a help to a goalie's development, how is playing for the Thunderbirds gonna help?

 

[GermanPanther]

...and hey, if losing all the time isn't a help to a goalie's development, how is playing for the Thunderbirds gonna help?

Nothing, tell me how many Players was able to jump from the AHL Roster into the NHL Roster, still with us. So it might some truth in those Words, that winning helping you in anyway.
Example Trocheck during his AHL Time, win and lost but the Team was better with him, after he joined the Panthers. The AHL Team was going trough a hard time.
ALL AHL Team so far doesnt shine at all, there was a single Year but even after that nothing happend at all.

As a Fan you must tell there is not much we get out of the AHL.

 

[Ratsreign]

The old adage, there are three kinds of lies; Lies, damned lies, and statistics......
Was never more true than it is when talking about hockey, Especially goalies.....
I trust statistics for baseball, a "team" game consisting of easily quantifiable, totally individual performances.
Idk, maybe it's just me, but any individual hockey player's stats are greatly influenced by the teammates he plays with, and by that are, in a way inherently flawed.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

The old adage, there are three kinds of lies; Lies, damned lies, and statistics......
Was never more true than it is when talking about hockey, Especially goalies.....
I trust statistics for baseball, a "team" game consisting of easily quantifiable, totally individual performances.
Idk, maybe it's just me, but any individual hockey player's stats are greatly influenced by the teammates he plays with, and by that are, in a way inherently flawed.

Which is why there's no sense in comparing Monty to say Garret Sparks, or Demko, or Domingue, McKenna...
But Sateri played on the exact same team!

Why is it so hard to accept that Sateri had a better year than Monty?

 

[GrumpyKelly]

Which is why there's no sense in comparing Monty to say Garret Sparks, or Demko, or Domingue, McKenna...
But Sateri played on the exact same team!

Why is it so hard to accept that Sateri had a better year than Monty?

It shouldn't be in this case. The sample size is big enough for both.

 

[CHGoalie27]

Which is why there's no sense in comparing Monty to say Garret Sparks, or Demko, or Domingue, McKenna...
But Sateri played on the exact same team!

Why is it so hard to accept that Sateri had a better year than Monty?

Nobody said Sateri didnt have a better year, me included. I'm saying the stats had nothing to do with that. He was on his game no matter the stats. He looked great even when his numbers looked like Monty's season total averages. So with watching monty play the games, how can you in any fairness negatively judge by the stats?

And to put all the stuff you either didnt read or just chose not to reply to in short, if you take out the games he was pulled early (not given a chance to level his averages), the final stats jump significantly. 6 unfortunate games does not make for a bad season nor does it indicate a goalies lack of ability or readiness. Especially if the critic can't tell me if the goals he was pulled for were even his fault.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

Nobody said Sateri didnt have a better year, me included. I'm saying the stats had nothing to do with that. He was on his game no matter the stats. He looked great even when his numbers looked like Monty's season total averages. So with watching monty play the games, how can you in any fairness negatively judge by the stats?

And to put all the stuff you either didnt read or just chose not to reply to in short, if you take out the games he was pulled early (not given a chance to level his averages), the final stats jump significantly. 6 unfortunate games does not make for a bad season nor does it indicate a goalies lack of ability or readiness. Especially if the critic can't tell me if the goals he was pulled for were even his fault.

The stats are the result of what was happening on the ice.

Okay, took out the six games where he was pulled. His save% jumps up to 90.7% - still 2% less than Sateri's 92.7% (which, if we adjust it for the one game where he got pulled, jumps to 92.9%). Until Montembeault can do at least as well as our other AHL goalie (this year, Hutchinson), how can we think he's ready to be an NHL backup, nevermind a starter?

Because this it what's the issue here. Is Monty going to be ready to be an NHL starter in one or two years? Every season could be Luongo's last, and if Reimer isn't the answer, we either need Montembeault to take over or to look elsewhere for at least a short-term solution.

Vasilevskiy needed two years as NHL backup before becoming starter; Helleybuck a year; both were this year's Vezina finalists and are supremely talented goalies. Gibson (another young talented guy) needed to split three years between the NHL and AHL before he was ready to be an NHL starter. Saros, touted as an extremely promising goalie prospect just spent three years spliting time between the NHL and AHL. Martin Jones spent three years in the AHL, then two years between NHL and AHL before becoming a starter. Even Lundquist spent five years in Europe after being drafted before becoming an NHL starter.

Ideally Montembeault has a strong AHL year, maybe gets a couple NHL starts. Then next year, possibly NHL backup duties and see where it goes from there.

 

[CHGoalie27]

The stats are the result of what was happening on the ice.

Okay, took out the six games where he was pulled. His save% jumps up to 90.7% - still 2% less than Sateri's 92.7% (which, if we adjust it for the one game where he got pulled, jumps to 92.9%). Until Montembeault can do at least as well as our other AHL goalie (this year, Hutchinson), how can we think he's ready to be an NHL backup, nevermind a starter?

Because this it what's the issue here. Is Monty going to be ready to be an NHL starter in one or two years? Every season could be Luongo's last, and if Reimer isn't the answer, we either need Montembeault to take over or to look elsewhere for at least a short-term solution.

Vasilevskiy needed two years as NHL backup before becoming starter; Helleybuck a year; both were this year's Vezina finalists and are supremely talented goalies. Gibson (another young talented guy) needed to split three years between the NHL and AHL before he was ready to be an NHL starter. Saros, touted as an extremely promising goalie prospect just spent three years spliting time between the NHL and AHL. Martin Jones spent three years in the AHL, then two years between NHL and AHL before becoming a starter. Even Lundquist spent five years in Europe after being drafted before becoming an NHL starter.

Ideally Montembeault has a strong AHL year, maybe gets a couple NHL starts. Then next year, possibly NHL backup duties and see where it goes from there.

I mean yeah the stats are the result of what happened. Could've went without saying. Now explain how the stats got there. Yknow-all the "etc, etc" you dont care about. Adjusting...stats? Oh boy....

You can tell me 5 goals were scored. I ask you was it the goalies fault or the defense, you can't tell me. So what good is the stat if you cant tell me what was on him or not.

Adjusting, assuming, lumping, and guessing are not vaild when judging someone's abilities or mindframe(NHL readiness). Therefore neither are the stats.

People are different, saying one goalie needs something because another goalie did is pretty silly too. Sometimes they need it sometimes they dont. Stats are not the way to tell. Again-the points you keep passing over as " etc etc." He may not be ready, but thats on him and not his stats.

And LundqVist. Lundquist is the prospect.

 

[batting1k]

I love Montembeault just as much as the next guy, and I watched him 2 seasons in the Q before last season. Like with any goalie, it'd be silly to project him as a goalie of the future. Does he have a good shot to become a starting goalie in the NHL? Sure. Is he guaranteed to become one? No. Goalies are like voodoo and I wouldn't hedge any bets on Montembeault, as much as I like what he brings to the table. I don't think it's right or fair to act like he's some amazing world-beater.

 

[GermanPanther]

I love Montembeault just as much as the next guy, and I watched him 2 seasons in the Q before last season. Like with any goalie, it'd be silly to project him as a goalie of the future. Does he have a good shot to become a starting goalie in the NHL? Sure. Is he guaranteed to become one? No. Goalies are like voodoo and I wouldn't hedge any bets on Montembeault, as much as I like what he brings to the table. I don't think it's right or fair to act like he's some amazing world-beater.

That´s ture and fair. But when it comes to Prospect Goalies and the Panthers, every promising Goalie Prospect is been doomed. Because you always get placed into the Spot, you have to replace the Starting Goalie or he must be our next Starting Goalie. And there is no Chance that someone takes the Spot away of special that Postion on the Ice. Its not a Florida Panthers only thing, that mostly seeing the most Fans, when they hear all around the Media, that Goalie Prospect is promising, thats his Numbers, he had something, was voted to be Player of the week or Month and then the Dreams begin.

 

[CHGoalie27]

Actually for anyone actually reading thru and following along, its more to my claim that there is no such thing as a goalie world beater...

I have played in net for 25 years, against pee-wees and pros. Which is longer than some here have been alive. What do i know about it anyway.

Look I'm not even saying it's stupid for him to be in the AHL, we have Luongo and Reimer and did before he was even a thought. And I'm happy with it and want Lu here as long as he can go. He's the ultimate stats aren't fair guy for all he's done here, esp his first stint.

@batting1k you got me flustered mate, you of all people should know what I'm talking about. I stated my case standing right next to ya...as we're looking at him....

 

[KW]

I love Montembeault just as much as the next guy, and I watched him 2 seasons in the Q before last season. Like with any goalie, it'd be silly to project him as a goalie of the future. Does he have a good shot to become a starting goalie in the NHL? Sure. Is he guaranteed to become one? No. Goalies are like voodoo and I wouldn't hedge any bets on Montembeault, as much as I like what he brings to the table. I don't think it's right or fair to act like he's some amazing world-beater.

Are you saying that it’s like black magic and there isn’t a method to finding and training good goalies?

Of course, the answer is that there is a definite methodology. That’s why for example Finland has so many good goalies per hockey playing population.

Monty looks good, if he has good coaching, he can be projected to be good - barring injury. Of course, it still isn’t totally guaranteed, but at least the odds aren’t as bad as you make them sound.

 

[EXTRAS]

Is hawryluk done as NH nhler?

 

[CHGoalie27]

Is hawryluk done as NH nhler?

It seems that it's at the "people are starting* to lose their patience" stage.

 

[scoob8888]

The "can't miss kid" looks to be plying his trade in the AHL again.

 

[CHGoalie27]

The "can't miss kid" looks to be plying his trade in the AHL again.

Who?

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

We can't write off Hawrlyk yet even though he's not meeting the expectations. The guy is 22yo and it would be preferable that the farm team has stability in personnel rather than implementing the Tallon-way of the warrior i.e. letting the coach (Gallant) dog house players and shorty afterwards letting go of the prospects and not letting them stay with the org i.e. filling the farm team with mercs.

 

[EnforceTheLaus]

Off to a good start

 

[EnforceTheLaus]

All 3 goals

 

[batting1k]

I think everyone is flipping out over what I said about Monty. Like I said, I like him as much as anyone else, but as a prospect. I don’t know what the problem is with tempering expectations. Some here are saying that he’s gonna be an elite starting goaltender in the NHL because he looks good in practice and at training camp. You know who else we said this about? Jacob Markstrom...it took him a while to get his feet under him at the AHL and NHL level. I’m not saying he won’t be an NHL goalie or that he sucks, lol. I’m just saying he’s not a world beater right now like some are implying, and that’s perfectly fine, he’s only a second year pro. I like everything he has to offer and he’ll only get better. So get off the ledge...

 

[CHGoalie27]

I think everyone is flipping out over what I said about Monty. Like I said, I like him as much as anyone else, but as a prospect. I don’t know what the problem is with tempering expectations. Some here are saying that he’s gonna be an elite starting goaltender in the NHL because he looks good in practice and at training camp. You know who else we said this about? Jacob Markstrom...it took him a while to get his feet under him at the AHL and NHL level. I’m not saying he won’t be an NHL goalie or that he sucks, lol. I’m just saying he’s not a world beater right now like some are implying, and that’s perfectly fine, he’s only a second year pro. I like everything he has to offer and he’ll only get better. So get off the ledge...

No, I'm the only one saying that. So you too can show the same respect you are given and address when addressed. You're not an idiot and you have no reason to be like that with me either. I haven't ever been anything but nice to you, even thru disagreements or whatever.

In my 9 years here, I haven't said such a thing about any other goaltender, including Markstrom. Before that the only two goalies I ever placed such high expectations based on the first 5 minutes of me just seeing their ability to move were the first time I saw Quick and Lundqvist. I've said so since the day I signed up here. That's from my personal experience and knowledge of what it takes to play this position.

How did Quick and Lundqvist end up?

So if not me, who's implying they are a world beater?

 

[CHGoalie27]

All 3 goals

Excellent!!!

 

[batting1k]

No, I'm the only one saying that. So you too can show the same respect you are given and address when addressed. You're not an idiot and you have no reason to be like that with me either. I haven't ever been anything but nice to you, even thru disagreements or whatever.

In my 9 years here, I haven't said such a thing about any other goaltender, including Markstrom. Before that the only two goalies I ever placed such high expectations based on the first 5 minutes of me just seeing their ability to move were the first time I saw Quick and Lundqvist. I've said so since the day I signed up here. That's from my personal experience and knowledge of what it takes to play this position.

How did Quick and Lundqvist end up?

So if not me, who's implying they are a world beater?

This wasn’t necessarily directed at you specifically, I don’t know where all of this animosity is coming from all of a sudden. I made a pretty standard comment and because he’s your favorite prospect you took it as a personal attack, which it certainly wasn’t. I was talking in general about how everyone (including on Twitter and reddit) seems to be acting like Montembeault is the second coming of God, which as of right now he isn’t, he’s a good goalie prospect.