2018-19 Utica Comets, Pt. III

[go comets]

I can not believe there is actually any argument between carcone and Dahen... This is nuts. Carcone is a puck hog and doesn't use his teammates.

If you wanna be fair, compare them to each other at the same stage of their careers.. Carcone was a complete mess that fell down 2x a shift as a rookie.... I'll take Dahlen any day.....

 

[stampedingviking]

Gotta go out so watch the rest of this later. Story of the game already done however. Once again any team can take free runs at the Comets. Just pound the heck out of them. Tangardi viciously butt ends Sautner in the face and looks like he is out with some severe facial injuries. Brisebois gets his head driven into the boards and out for awhile. Others getting belted around.

I know there are posters who IMO stupidly insist none of this matters but our prospects never play in a safe environment. Johnson and Benning have never been able to wrap their head s around the need to make sure there is some push back when the youngster get run. Of all the faults with this organization, I believe this is one of the most grievous.

The fact that there's meatheads just running around trying to hurt players is on the refs and league. They need to be much stricter on such things. It's supposed to be a development league, after all.

 

[stampedingviking]

If you can’t pull up a quote then delete your post.

Why should he?

 

[stampedingviking]

He was one of many, myself included, who thought Dahlen's ranking in the prospect rank thread was far too high given his performance in Utica this year. Dahlen was practically invisible on the ice until this recent couple of games. MS was just being honest, he has been watching the games and used the most recent information available in his assessment. Nothing replaces watching the games.

He was crapping on Dahlen because he was a Benning aquisition and for no other reason.

MS used to be a fairly reasonable poster but he's become so anti-Benning it colours almost all of his posts now, which is a shame (he's not the only one either).

 

[stampedingviking]

Player A is 22, one of the fastest skaters in the AHL, and was Utica’s best forward almost every game in the month before he was traded. Plays in every situation, is physical, is solid defensively.

Player B is 21, a below-average skater, is a complete perimeter player who is a ghost at ES, has no intangibles, and has basically only shown PP utility (where, to be fair, he is very good). Was on the 4th line last week.

Both players are the same size.

Explain why it’s LOL to say that player A is a bigger loss.

Dahlen has nice hands and ability to give and receive a pass, and can make plays with the sort of time and space he gets on the PP where his sluggish skating is less of an issue. Unless he does a complete 180 in terms of his compete level while simultaneously improving his skating significantly, he’s not a great prospect.

One month does not outweigh all that Player B has done previously

 

[absolute garbage]

I agree that if Dahlen stays small and slow he won't be successful. But, I highly doubt he'll be this small, and I think he will get faster. I hear you, he's playing poorly in the AHL, but what did you expect? I didn't expect him to tear the AHL up. He's not Pettersson, he's a early-mid 2nd round pick.

My point is, I think Dahlen will improve his skating and gain strength this off-season or maybe next off-season if that's how long it takes. Horvat improved his skating, Virtanen and Hutton conditioned themselves better. How long after they got drafted did they improve on those things?

You think or you hope? Or just wishful thinking? Maybe he does improve, maybe he doesn't.

What comes to expectations, I think you're making some kind of fallacy here. What everyone should expect from a 2nd rounder is a bust. There's like an 80% chance for that. The guys who make it are significant outliers, and show that as they blaze through levels.

The bar for a future NHL top 6 forward is super high, and only those non-lottery picks who exceed expectations in a major way achieve that. Dahlen isn't doing that currently.

 

[Harry Rag]

He was crapping on Dahlen because he was a Benning aquisition and for no other reason.

MS used to be a fairly reasonable poster but he's become so anti-Benning it colours almost all of his posts now, which is a shame (he's not the only one either).

As someone who has lurked on read this forum for many years, this is obviously not true. There is not a single poster I am aware of that has not given credit to Benning the rare time he makes a good move (such as the Dahlen trade, which was a good move even if Dahlen never makes the NHL). Just thought I'd point that out in case, against all evidence to the contrary, you are actually interested in honestly discussing issues related to the Vancouver Canucks.

 

[stampedingviking]

As someone who has lurked on read this forum for many years, this is obviously not true. There is not a single poster I am aware of that has not given credit to Benning the rare time he makes a good move (such as the Dahlen trade, which was a good move even if Dahlen never makes the NHL). Just thought I'd point that out in case, against all evidence to the contrary, you are actually interested in honestly discussing issues related to the Vancouver Canucks.

Thanks for the sarky reply. Of course I'm not interested in discussing the Canucks

What I'm not interested in are the continual negative posts that crap all over Benning/this team for no other reason than it's Benning or one of his acquisitions. Benning is not the best, obviously, but he's also not as bad as a lot make him out to be.

There are many posters who refuse/are not willing to credit Benning at all. I would suggest that you have not read this board for years, or at least not properly.

 

[Harry Rag]

Thanks for the sarky reply. Of course I'm not interested in discussing the Canucks

What I'm not interested in are the continual negative posts that crap all over Benning/this team for no other reason than it's Benning or one of his acquisitions. Benning is not the best, obviously, but he's also not as bad as a lot make him out to be.

There are many posters who refuse/are not willing to credit Benning at all. I would suggest that you have not read this board for years, or at least not properly.

Why do you persist with this blatant untruth?

I won't speak for anyone else, but I think Benning has been an absolutely terrible GM and has set the franchise back years. But he has made some good moves, such as the Dahlen and Bieksa trades. Again, I'm not aware of a single "anti-Benning" poster that would deny that, and I don't think you are either.

 

[m9]

Gotta go out so watch the rest of this later. Story of the game already done however. Once again any team can take free runs at the Comets. Just pound the heck out of them. Tangardi viciously butt ends Sautner in the face and looks like he is out with some severe facial injuries. Brisebois gets his head driven into the boards and out for awhile. Others getting belted around.

I know there are posters who IMO stupidly insist none of this matters but our prospects never play in a safe environment. Johnson and Benning have never been able to wrap their head s around the need to make sure there is some push back when the youngster get run. Of all the faults with this organization, I believe this is one of the most grievous.

It's very strange that an old-school management group is so unwilling to fix that issue. Such an easy fix, too.

I will also add that it's an important distinction between having this protection in junior/AHL vs in the NHL. Two separate arguments.

Thanks to you (and others in this thread) for your game recaps. I don't post often in here but read every post.

 

[Pip]

Why should he?

If you claim someone said something you should have to prove it. I don’t know what is so confusing about that for you.

 

[MS]

He was crapping on Dahlen because he was a Benning aquisition and for no other reason.

MS used to be a fairly reasonable poster but he's become so anti-Benning it colours almost all of his posts now, which is a shame (he's not the only one either).

Carcone was also a Benning acquisition. And I was extremely positive on Carcone before he was traded. Try again.

 

[MS]

It's very strange that an old-school management group is so unwilling to fix that issue. Such an easy fix, too.

I will also add that it's an important distinction between having this protection in junior/AHL vs in the NHL. Two separate arguments.

Thanks to you (and others in this thread) for your game recaps. I don't post often in here but read every post.

Utica does have a designated facepuncher/pure goon in Vincent Arseneau on their roster but he has been out injured for a month after breaking his hand in a fight.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Why are we getting Marlies and Carcone update ?? Who cares. Move on.

You post what you want and I'll post what I want. You are not the board police. You also know how to block my posts from your screen if this post is that offensive.

There are 2 reasons for this post.
1) It appears from the current standings that the Comets are going to be in a real dogfight for a playoff spot this season currently with every team in the North Division. Spots 2 -8 are currently separated by 8 points and Utica is right in the middle of that along with Toronto, Belleville, and Binghamton. Following these teams and their efforts is a no brainer since their results are crucial to the Comets. hey will all be playing mostly each other right down to the wire. That alone is reason enough .

2)There are 5 ex-Comets/Canucks there. I like to follow their seasons and compare their play to what people expected them to become. Well there were 5, but Griffen Molino, who stunk up the ice in Utica last season, has been sent to the ECHL Newfoundland Growlers after stinking up the LW for the Marlies. Welcome in Michael Carcone.

e.g. So far Subban played way worse in Ontario and is currently on a similar track in Toronto than when he was a Comet. Toronto has him on a 2-way and is paying him $95,000 to screw up for the Marlies.

Carcone is the latest acquisition and I want to see how his production there compares to his production here.

Gagner and Cracknell, both ex-Canucks, are doing very well for the Marlies.

It is most interesting to me that most of the players who leave the Comets don't do as well elsewhere.

Those that do are players I have lobbied for before the Canucks let them go rather than re-sign them.

 

[Soups On]

Can any of the posters frequently watching Utica comment on McEneny? I'd liked what I'd read on his play 2 years ago and his work last year before the injury. Does he have a mature enough game to play in the NHL and succeed?

 

[Bad Goalie]

Dahlen has looked a lot better, he makes some plays that no one else in Utica can make, or even a lot of the players in Vancouver can't make. But he's not showing to be a possession driver. His game is one of quick one touch passes, give and goes, and getting into space for quick scoring opportunities. He doesn't skate with the puck or drive transition much, which comes back to his lack of explosiveness skating. He's improved defensively and has won more board battles, but he does most of that with his stick and can be neutralised or beat by bigger players who play the body. For those reasons I don't think he's not showing to be a blue chip prospect but has a good chance to be a really good complimentary player, the third man on a top 6 line was it were. Hence he looks great on the power play, but hasn't driven play 5 on 5 as much as we would all like. It's no coincidence that he's looked a lot better with Gaunce as his centre, who is a good possession player and good in the defensive zone.

Echos my thoughts.

Note in the last 2 games where his scoring has come from. He has had unimpeded access to his scoring paths. All of his goals have followed that schematic.

Playing with a good center helps him , huh? I think that has been my point for all of the kids. They are wings and centers are instrumental to their development. It doesn't take a Rhodes Scholarship winner to figure that out. I know you agree.

When the Thunderbirds went into Johnstown Jets implosion mode, he disappeared from the scene (not that I blame him, but it's not the way to endear yourself to your mates). Last night he was flung to the end boards by a large Binghamton Devil, took some time on all 4s after the whistle before he got back to his feet, and pretty much went invisible again thereafter.

Some weight (he is small and won't get a lot bigger) and muscle as well as learning to avoid the big hits while still managing to get into traffic would improve his chances immensely.

Juolevi has the same problems with guys who come to deliver punishing blows. Even tougher for D-men to avoid particularly when forwards dump the puck into situations that set D-men up for that collision. As "orcatown" mentioned when exiting last night, the Comets' D is not built for that type of interaction and the opponents are currently well aware of it and the Comets have no one on D to counter balance that method of attack nor many forwards that can respond in kind. I'm afraid we are going to see a lot more of this game plan in the future.

 

[Bad Goalie]

No you're right, he doesn't have the puck on his stick much but how about that goal he scored Friday night where he went to the goal mouth to bang in the rebound on his own shot. That's the kind of involvement and initiative I thought I'd never see from the kid. I'm not going crazy here; he's still not a top five prospect imho but he's top ten I'd say. Just giving him his due.

You are correct, but that was on the PP and nobody was free to impede his progress.

 

[Bad Goalie]

You keep saying men, like Allsvenskan is the same as the AHL. The top scoring American in Allsvenskan, Justin Crandall couldn't crack an AHL line-up, he was putting up the same numbers in the ECHL as he is putting up in the Allsvenskan this season. Clearly, the Allsvenskan is garbage compared to the AHL. Men also play in beer leagues, but that doesn't mean it's tough competition. Get my point?

I agree that if Dahlen stays small and slow he won't be successful. But, I highly doubt he'll be this small, and I think he will get faster. I hear you, he's playing poorly in the AHL, but what did you expect? I didn't expect him to tear the AHL up. He's not Pettersson, he's a early-mid 2nd round pick.

My point is, I think Dahlen will improve his skating and gain strength this off-season or maybe next off-season if that's how long it takes. Horvat improved his skating, Virtanen and Hutton conditioned themselves better. How long after they got drafted did they improve on those things?

I don't have a problem with your opinion. If you think Carcone is a better prospect than Dahlen, whatever, you've seen him more than me this season. But, I feel like you're closing the book on Dahlen after reading the first chapter. IMO, I'm treating this like a Lind/Jasek/Gadjovich. After seeing how much guys like Virtanen, Hutton, Horvat, Baertschi, and even Goldobin improve, I have much more patience and belief in a guy like Dahlen.

You watch a lot of Utica games and you can see the difference in physical maturity (strength) from guys like Lind/Jasek/Dahlen to veterans like Kero, Bancks, Darcy. Similar weight/height, but a significant difference in strength. The kids look like they haven't seen a gym. But, they won't be like that forever, once they gain that strength, you will see a different player.

"Clearly, the Allsvenskan is garbage compared to the AHL. Men also play in beer leagues, but that doesn't mean it's tough competition. Get my point?"

WOW!!!! I got my ass handed to me in a basket by the Vancouver masses last season when I made this same claim which I still adhere to today. That's why I said allowing him to play over there when he could have been here would set his development back a year. The Allsvenskan does not prepare anyone less than a pure blue chip, can't miss player for North American hockey. people come back with the players who have done it and I refer back to my last statement.

Overall as for North American hockey the AHL is the better league and the experts rate it so.

 

[MS]

Can any of the posters frequently watching Utica comment on McEneny? I'd liked what I'd read on his play 2 years ago and his work last year before the injury. Does he have a mature enough game to play in the NHL and succeed?

McEneny can’t skate. Multiple major leg injuries have left him skating in molasses. Painfully slow. And his defensive positioning is soft and weak.

He is, however, along with Juolevi the best outlet passer on the Comets, and a lovely passer of the puck in general. Beautiful tape-to-tape saucers. And it’s a skill sorely needed down there on a blueline that is awful at transitioning the puck in general.

He’s piling up points on the deadly Comets PP (11 points in his last 12 games right now) but still bleeding goals defensively.

He provides utility to Utica right now but I’d be surprised if we ever saw him play another NHL game. Skating and defensive player are substantially worse than Pouliot’s.

 

[Soups On]

McEneny can’t skate. Multiple major leg injuries have left him skating in molasses. Painfully slow. And his defensive positioning is soft and weak.

He is, however, along with Juolevi the best outlet passer on the Comets, and a lovely passer of the puck in general. Beautiful tape-to-tape saucers. And it’s a skill sorely needed down there on a blueline that is awful at transitioning the puck in general.

He’s piling up points on the deadly Comets PP (11 points in his last 12 games right now) but still bleeding goals defensively.

He provides utility to Utica right now but I’d be surprised if we ever saw him play another NHL game. Skating and defensive player are substantially worse than Pouliot’s.

Ahh that's a shame. I remember watching some videos a couple of years ago and recall seeing some fluid skating but I could be wrong.

 

[MS]

Ahh that's a shame. I remember watching some videos a couple of years ago and recall seeing some fluid skating but I could be wrong.

He’s blown his left knee out twice now, unfortunately. I think it used to be better, too, but right now he’s slooooooow for this level, never mind the NHL. If you’re a decent skater who gets a half-step on him down the wing, you’re home free.

 

[tyhee]

He was crapping on Dahlen because he was a Benning aquisition and for no other reason.

MS used to be a fairly reasonable poster but he's become so anti-Benning it colours almost all of his posts now, which is a shame (he's not the only one either).

MS has given reasons for his opinion. You haven't done anything about refuting his opinion, haven't spoken of speed or why you think Dahlen will either get faster or be able to play in the NHL despite being a small player without speed.

Instead you just attributed his opinion favouring one prospect over another because he was a Benning acquisition, while not being negative about the other Benning acquisition.

Yes, they're both Benning acquisitions.

In case it isn't clear enough yet, I don't think you're making any sense nor trying to be logical. If you disagree, then disagree, but you are the one spouting nonsense.

In saying that, I'm just saying you're being illogical. I am not expressing an opinion about which of these prospects is better.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

You are correct, but that was on the PP and nobody was free to impede his progress.

Yes, and to be fair, he did tuck in for the night when the going got rough both Friday and Saturday. Still, I do see marked improvement in his play lately...

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

He was crapping on Dahlen because he was a Benning aquisition and for no other reason.

MS used to be a fairly reasonable poster but he's become so anti-Benning it colours almost all of his posts now, which is a shame (he's not the only one either).

Yeah, I don't know, a lot of people are tired of Benning and would like to see him gone, maybe even most here. Certainly I would be one of those. But I'm not really into talking about other posters on the forum, especially since you can just talk to them directly easily enough.

 

[shottasasa]

Echos my thoughts.

Note in the last 2 games where his scoring has come from. *He has had unimpeded access to his scoring paths. All of his goals have followed that schematic.*

**Playing with a good center helps him , huh? I think that has been my point for all of the kids. They are wings and centers are instrumental to their development.** It doesn't take a Rhodes Scholarship winner to figure that out. I know you agree.

When the Thunderbirds went into Johnstown Jets implosion mode, he disappeared from the scene (not that I blame him, but it's not the way to endear yourself to your mates). *Last night he was flung to the end boards by a large Binghamton Devil, took some time on all 4s after the whistle before he got back to his feet, and pretty much went invisible again thereafter.*

Some weight (he is small and won't get a lot bigger) and muscle as well as learning to avoid the big hits while still managing to get into traffic would improve his chances immensely.

***Juolevi has the same problems with guys who come to deliver punishing blows. Even tougher for D-men to avoid particularly when forwards dump the puck into situations that set D-men up for that collision. As "orcatown" mentioned when exiting last night, the Comets' D is not built for that type of interaction and the opponents are currently well aware of it and the Comets have no one on D to counter balance that method of attack nor many forwards that can respond in kind. I'm afraid we are going to see a lot more of this game plan in the future.***

* - He may not have been tackled or physically taken out of the play but he created that space by faking the pass to Kero and it was stuffing home his own rebound in the crease. It was a notable play as it shows a bit of courage maybe we hadn't seen as much of earlier, that's the part of the ice a player is at risk of getting levelled unless they are very large and he was willing. As to the play where he went to the boards and was down for a moment against Binghampton I'm more encouraged with the play that resulted in that. He took a pass and got off a good backhand chance while skating to the net, all made possible by some very good edgework. He was being hounded as he got his backhand off and shoved down, sending him across the ice heavily into the boards. He may have gone a bit quiet after that, but my biggest takeaway was that once again he was willing to go to tough areas to get that sort of shot off in the first place under pressure.

I went back and watched some of his highlights to compare his where he scores his goals in Sweden to what we've seen so far. He's not going to get as much time and space as he did there, but a lot of his goals were scored within a few feet of the net. I'm now a bit more optimistic he at least has the courage to do the same in North America despite the increased physicality and will learn to use his skating to be a bit more slippery so he doesn't get wrecked on the regular. He's not shown toughness when things get nasty or when the hits start flying, but is willing to "pay the price" in the "dirty areas". I'm hoping he continues that and is tough in the same way the Sedin's were tough. Pardon the use of too many cliches.



** - Yes, I think I've mentioned this in previous post, I agree they needed more centres or at the very least should have shifted Gaunce over earlier. It's not like he's been that great, but at least he drives play in the right direction and is way way way better the Cameranesi or Darcy.

*** - Yes, agree, I replied to a comment by Orcatown on the previous page. Binghampton was running our defence hard, and even when they didn't hit them, were playing the intimidation game by pulling up on big hits at the last minute even if the puck was long gone. Tangradi and the guy who hit Breisbois should get long suspensions in my mind, that was way over the line in both cases. I really hope Sautner is going to be OK, that looked bad and I'm a bit worried about a potential eye injury but seen anything online about his status.

Young D-men are playing key roles on this team and they aren't the physical nasty types either. In some ways it's good in that they get taste of having to play fast and handle hard forechecks, because it's even faster in the NHL and it's a contact sport after all. But the downside risk of injury is a significant concern. I would like to see the team to start taking some preventative measures in the next couple of games by dropping the gloves with the next person to try that stuff, even if it's a clean hit. It may be time for Archie, Woods and MacEwan to spend some time in the box, even if they are key parts of the team. Anyone know when Arseneau is due back?