2018-19 Tank Tracker (Mod Warning post #724)

[Hen Kolland]

It’s 50/50

Imagine if we had Pettersson over Ras.
You’re naive to think draft position doesn’t matter.

(I’m not disagreeing with playing hard. I’m saying it’s ****ty they keep winning games)

Imagine having Nolan Patrick instead of Elias Pettersson. You could bring up Nico Hischier too, Pettersson is better than both. That draft can represent the pitfalls of a variety of different scenarios, all of which we can only hope to avoid. Don't call someone naive for saying drafting well is more important than drafting high; odds are we never draft #1 overall in this rebuild, so we damn well better be good at drafting talent regardless of the draft position.

The only shitty part about this season (in regard to the tank) is that opposing teams turned out to be worse than anyone realistically thought they would be. It's not like the Wings beat their expected performance level by a wide margin. It sucks to have a complete throw away season and not come away with something to show for it, but sometimes life's unfair and you get over it. Pettersson is still a good example of how we can turn this positive real quick. Not to mention, optimism is a lot more enjoyable than cynicism.

 

[Invictus12]

We're complaining because bad things are happening to us out of our control. It's especially bad because we were led to believe that very *good* things would happen, and now there's been a kind of bait and switch. That sucks. We spent all year getting excited for the draft lottery, and now that excitement is replaced by fear that we'll fall too far.

I'm glad you're so stoic that you remain completely silent when things don't go your way, but that's not what other people do. Sorry.

What bait and switch? Its not like someone is unleashing some secret weapon to screw up the draft position. A lot of guys coming up and trying to prove a point. Odds are, Blashill isn't micro-managing how the players play their game as much, at this point in the season and I think that has a lot to do with this surge as well.

Up front, I think we have the talent but its a matter of those guy realizing on it And I rather see that above all else.

 

[ricky0034]

Imagine having Nolan Patrick instead of Elias Pettersson. You could bring up Nico Hischier too, Pettersson is better than both. That draft can represent the pitfalls of a variety of different scenarios, all of which we can only hope to avoid. Don't call someone naive for saying drafting well is more important than drafting high; odds are we never draft #1 overall in this rebuild, so we damn well better be good at drafting talent regardless of the draft position.

The only ****ty part about this season (in regard to the tank) is that opposing teams turned out to be worse than anyone realistically thought they would be. It's not like the Wings beat their expected performance level by a wide margin. It sucks to have a complete throw away season and not come away with something to show for it, but sometimes life's unfair and you get over it. Pettersson is still a good example of how we can turn this positive real quick. Not to mention, optimism is a lot more enjoyable than cynicism.

and any of those players are much better than Rasmussen

drafting well is important too but if you don't draft high you simply don't have as many or as good options

 

[lhsgolf19]

Tonight is a huge day for the Tank... We need Buffalo to somehow scratch out a point at home vs. the Preds, then on Thursday they host the Sens (they better win ha) before they play us in the last game.

We need to be 3 points behind them before the game (I'm rooting for the Pens the next 2 games lol)

 

[Frk It]

With BUF, LA, and NJ potentially picking ahead of us... I doubt very much Byram will be there for us.

 

[Hen Kolland]

and any of those players are much better than Rasmussen

drafting well is important too but if you don't draft high you simply don't have as many or as good options

I understand the argument, and I don't fault anybody for wanting the higher pick, but too many times on this board I see this bullshit of "would I rather draft #1 where I can get an elite franchise level player, or draft later in the top 10 where I get a player who may or may not be a top 6 forward?" That's such a disingenuous framing of the situation. Maybe I like being responsible for getting through shit done regardless of the situation, but I will never use a non-top 3 draft position in the top 10 as a crutch. If you can't produce a premier prospect with designs on fitting in your top 6 or top pair, then you have failed at your job. Not to say it's a guarantee that you will, but unfortunately that is the reality of the pressure on the scouting department.

 

[Hen Kolland]

With BUF, LA, and NJ potentially picking ahead of us... I doubt very much Byram will be there for us.

Buffalo is the one that scares me because they have so many young drafted forwards already on the roster. LA and NJ feel like they should still be going BPA, not saying they will, but more so than Buffalo they need talent wherever they can find it.

 

[Frk It]

I understand the argument, and I don't fault anybody for wanting the higher pick, but too many times on this board I see this bull**** of "would I rather draft #1 where I can get an elite franchise level player, or draft later in the top 10 where I get a player who may or may not be a top 6 forward?" That's such a disingenuous framing of the situation. Maybe I like being responsible for getting through **** done regardless of the situation, but I will never use a non-top 3 draft position in the top 10 as a crutch. If you can't produce a premier prospect with designs on fitting in your top 6 or top pair, then you have failed at your job. Not to say it's a guarantee that you will, but unfortunately that is the reality of the pressure on the scouting department.

The thing that kills me is it feels like just a week or so ago we were sitting there 2nd to last. That was a beautiful spot to be in, because of the guarantee of a top 5 pick.

Can't be too mad we won games despite signing unproven college FA's and guys getting hurt, but I thought we were really sitting pretty here. Kind of wished we would have traded Howard and rode out a scapegoat goalie, but can't change anything now.

Alex Turcotte is my silver lining, I think if he was healthy all year he would have been the clear-cut #3 guy. We get him at 5-7, and I am a happy camper.

 

[jkutswings]

For the people complaining about winning.......who are you even complaining about who should have been doing something different over the past 10 or whatever games?

If I were Holland, I would suddenly appear very frustrated about the mysterious lower body injuries that began to run rampant throughout my roster. Larkin, Mantha, AA, Bertuzzi... Talk about tragic! Having to sit all those players for these last few games would be TREMENDOUSLY upsetting to me, in the name of presenting a quality product to our season ticket holders and our wonderful fans in general.



So yeah, I would bench anybody with a pulse if that's what it took to prevent falling out of a top 5 pick. The players and coaches would still try as hard as they could, but I would take the whole thing out of their hands to begin with.

What's the league going to do...fine me? I'll write that check any day of the week. And if they went so far as to threaten taking the pick away, then the injuries begin to improve as miraculously as they first appeared. But I would be as underhanded as I could get away with being, because I firmly believe that there are 4-5 players worth tanking for this year, and then there are several guys who are just good to very good.

 

[Ezekial]

You can't just emergency call up people to fill their void if you're just sitting dudes to sit them.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Easiest fix ever. All injuries resulting in missed time are required to be disclosed. Obviously it doesn’t get fixed immediately, but the NHL isn’t going to allow their league to be dragged down based on BS. They will identify a fix somehow

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

You can't just emergency call up people to fill their void if you're just sitting dudes to sit them.

It's hockey magic, just like with every LTIRetirement contract in the league. Guys play hurt constantly, and when you need to make your move, suddenly those injuries start to matter. IMO that's exactly what the team is doing right now, just unfortunately not to much effect.

 

[Ezekial]

Easiest fix ever. All injuries resulting in missed time are required to be disclosed. Obviously it doesn’t get fixed immediately, but the NHL isn’t going to allow their league to be dragged down based on BS. They will identify a fix somehow

Call up 12 guys from the AHL, call up 12 from Toledo to GR and then sign like 9 guys to try outs, it's fool proof.

 

[jkutswings]

Or somebody could barricade the locker room door before the first period tonight, and league rules would result in a 1-0 forfeit for refusing to take the ice.

 

[Frk It]

Call up 12 guys from the AHL, call up 12 from Toledo to GR and then sign like 9 guys to try outs, it's fool proof.

Plug in a bad goalie and that would probably do it, if we’re being honest.

 

[jkutswings]

Plug in a bad goalie and that would probably do it, if we’re being honest.

I'm here, and I'd like to help.

 

[Ezekial]

Plug in a bad goalie and that would probably do it, if we’re being honest.

I'm down, let's go.

I thought we were for a bit, but then Bernie was like "I feel like turning it on now and not being a sub-900 goalie."

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It's hockey magic, just like with every LTIRetirement contract in the league. Guys play hurt constantly, and when you need to make your move, suddenly those injuries start to matter. IMO that's exactly what the team is doing right now, just unfortunately not to much effect.

It's not like LTIR at all. LTIR as a thing exists because the league and owners know that the retroactive application of recapture on contracts that they allowed was kinda bullcrap, so they allowed teams and management to avoid the "punishment" by not letting them play.

 

[Frk It]

I'm down, let's go.

I thought we were for a bit, but then Bernie was like "I feel like turning it on now and not being a sub-900 goalie."

Yeah, kind of a dick move if you ask me...

 

[Pavels Dog]

I could understand being encouraged by Mantha over the last few games. But other than him, what kid(s) have turned on the jets that we didn't already see good things from throughout the year? All of Larkin, AA, Hronek, and Bertuzzi were already on the "thumbs up" list.

Maybe Bowey or Rasmussen to an extent, I guess. But while I think both those players deserve patience in their evaluation, I don't see the last 5-10 games as any more encouraging than the rest of their respective bodies of work.

Hopefully Detroit catches some lucky ping pong balls in 8 days, and everybody's happy, because I think the difference between a top 3 pick and a top 7 pick will be bigger to this franchise than how much the current kids improve during these final 10-20 games.

To me it's just such a promising sign that we're gutting this roster and somehow these kids still drive the bus and get wins. They're not throwing in the towel, they're not folding like lawnchairs putting all their hopes towards a savior arriving in the draft. It's proof of concept that this group of players can lead us to wins, or at least be a big part of it.

 

[jkutswings]

To me it's just such a promising sign that we're gutting this roster and somehow these kids still drive the bus and get wins. They're not throwing in the towel, they're not folding like lawnchairs putting all their hopes towards a savior arriving in the draft. It's proof of concept that this group of players can lead us to wins, or at least be a big part of it.

Fair, but having players under 30 still trying to contribute to regular season wins is so far below my level of expectations that it doesn't really register with me. They're already paid lots of money to do that.

More than anything, seeing life from the current kids starts the clock ticking. I really want one more home run of an off season, because if the kids are now on the way up, they'll need more help to eventually reach a ceiling higher than 1st/2nd round exit, and this should be the best draft position to acquire high-end help.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Fair, but having players under 30 still trying to contribute to regular season wins is so far below my level of expectations that it doesn't really register with me. They're already paid lots of money to do that.

More than anything, seeing life from the current kids starts the clock ticking. I really want one more home run of an off season, because if the kids are now on the way up, they'll need more help to eventually reach a ceiling higher than 1st/2nd round exit, and this should be the best draft position to acquire high-end help.

You would think so... but look at New Jersey. Look at Buffalo. Look at LA. Their rosters can't even manage that. As bad as it is... not deciding to give up is actually a decently high bar of success in the late stages of the NHL season.

 

[jkutswings]

You would think so... but look at New Jersey. Look at Buffalo. Look at LA. Their rosters can't even manage that. As bad as it is... not deciding to give up is actually a decently high bar of success in the late stages of the NHL season.

That's on the fans of those clubs, still being dumb enough to show up. I'm not investing a dime until it's a product worth paying for.

 

[obey86]

Fair, but having players under 30 still trying to contribute to regular season wins is so far below my level of expectations that it doesn't really register with me. They're already paid lots of money to do that.

More than anything, seeing life from the current kids starts the clock ticking. I really want one more home run of an off season, because if the kids are now on the way up, they'll need more help to eventually reach a ceiling higher than 1st/2nd round exit, and this should be the best draft position to acquire high-end help.

If Zadina and the 2019 top 5 pick live up to their high draft pick expectations -- and Veleno can be something like a #2 center, the Red Wings will be in very good shape for the future IMO.

Obviously that's a whole bunch of ifs, but that's all a rebuild is, a bunch of ifs until the rebuild is over and the results are known.

 

[Christien]

Man I can't wait until Tuesday.