Line Combos: 2018-19 Roster Thread - Perry who?

[imjustzach]

It's pretty rare for a first year defenseman to do that. It's even rarer for the most highly touted d prospects to do that right out of the draft. Ekblad is the only one that I can remember pulling that off in recent years. Even Hedman and Doughty weren't able to pull that off.

The scenario that you're describing has an outside chance of happening, but the gamble that Carolina made is the safer bet to lay.

Its rare for first year defenseman to do what? Make the NHL squad? Dahlin is the closest thing to a generational defensive talent at the prospect level the NHL has seen in this generation and possibly in the history of the sport. I'm not saying Dahlin comes into the NHL and sets it on fire but I don't think its unrealistic to say that he has a good chance of playing on NHL squad and making an immediate impact. He was already playing in the SHL so it's not like he wasn't playing against grown men. The NHL is obviously going to be faster and more skilled but that transition is probably far easier than moving from a junior league or NCAA where the guys are far younger and less physically developed.

Edit: In terms of your comparison to Karlsson and Doughty, Dahlin's current level of play is already beyond what Karlsson/Doughty showed at the same age. Doughty also played in the NHL straight out of the draft iirc and he came from a junior league so Dahlin playing straight out of the draft seems like a reasonable expectation.

As for making the same gamble, what were their alternative options? If this is what the market looks like, I would rather keep/resign him or at least hold him until the TDL where you can get a better return. Those are both viable options depending on if the team wants to retool or try to push for contending.

 

[Exit Dose]

Its rare for first year defenseman to do what? Make the NHL squad? Dahlin is the closest thing to a generational defensive talent at the prospect level the NHL has seen in this generation and possibly in the history of the sport. I'm not saying Dahlin comes into the NHL and sets it on fire but I don't think its unrealistic to say that he has a good chance of playing on NHL squad and making an immediate impact. He was already playing in the SHL so it's not like he wasn't playing against grown men. The NHL is obviously going to be faster and more skilled but that transition is probably far easier than moving from a junior league or NCAA where the guys are far younger and less physically developed.

Edit: In terms of your comparison to Karlsson and Doughty, Dahlin's current level of play is already beyond what Karlsson/Doughty showed at the same age. Doughty also played in the NHL straight out of the draft iirc and he came from a junior league so Dahlin playing straight out of the draft seems like a reasonable expectation.

As for making the same gamble, what were their alternative options? If this is what the market looks like, I would rather keep/resign him or at least hold him until the TDL where you can get a better return. Those are both viable options depending on if the team wants to retool or try to push for contending.

Come into the league and make an impact. I also said Hedman, not Karlsson.

The gamble I was talking about was that Buffalo's 2nd will be high.

 

[duxfan1101]

Come into the league and make an impact. I also said Hedman, not Karlsson.

The gamble I was talking about was that Buffalo's 2nd will be high.

Buffalo already has 3 1sts next year

 

[Exit Dose]

Buffalo already has 3 1sts next year

Oh, in that case their 2nd isn't going to be an early one.

 

[imjustzach]

Come into the league and make an impact. I also said Hedman, not Karlsson.

The gamble I was talking about was that Buffalo's 2nd will be high.

Hedman played his rookie year too. So really both of your examples came in and played in the NHL straight out of the draft.

And taking the gamble that the sabres will have a repeat season so that your 2nd round pick is akin to an end of the round 1st only makes sense if the team thinks they couldn't get a better return at the TDL.

Patches also being available probably messed with his value but it still seems like a poor return. We'll have to wait until the end of the 2019 regular season to see if their gamble pays off.

 

[Exit Dose]

Hedman played his rookie year too. So really both of your examples came in and played in the NHL straight out of the draft.

And taking the gamble that the sabres will have a repeat season so that your 2nd round pick is akin to an end of the round 1st only makes sense if the team thinks they couldn't get a better return at the TDL.

For the first paragraph, my patience for this gaslighting crap has been exhausted.

As for the second, if what they valued most was getting a 1st, then holding out would've been the smarter idea. Of course, if they wanted to rack up some picks with good draft position, and get a prospect with good upside on top of that, waiting for the TDL would have been a bad idea.

 

[Paul4587]

Its rare for first year defenseman to do what? Make the NHL squad? Dahlin is the closest thing to a generational defensive talent at the prospect level the NHL has seen in this generation and possibly in the history of the sport. I'm not saying Dahlin comes into the NHL and sets it on fire but I don't think its unrealistic to say that he has a good chance of playing on NHL squad and making an immediate impact. He was already playing in the SHL so it's not like he wasn't playing against grown men. The NHL is obviously going to be faster and more skilled but that transition is probably far easier than moving from a junior league or NCAA where the guys are far younger and less physically developed.

Edit: In terms of your comparison to Karlsson and Doughty, Dahlin's current level of play is already beyond what Karlsson/Doughty showed at the same age. Doughty also played in the NHL straight out of the draft iirc and he came from a junior league so Dahlin playing straight out of the draft seems like a reasonable expectation.

As for making the same gamble, what were their alternative options? If this is what the market looks like, I would rather keep/resign him or at least hold him until the TDL where you can get a better return. Those are both viable options depending on if the team wants to retool or try to push for contending.

It’s rare for them to make an impact the first year, not make the team . Hedman, Doughty, Pronger to name a few were at best second pairing guys coming out of the draft. Fowler was an ok second pair guy but was also almost 19 when the season started.

 

[Exit Dose]

It’s rare for them to make an impact the first year, not make the team . Hedman, Doughty, Pronger to name a few were at best second pairing guys coming out of the draft. Fowler was an ok second pair guy but was also almost 19 when the season started.

Even then, Fowler was okay in terms of offense. His defense that year was atrocious.

 

[imjustzach]

For the first paragraph, my patience for this gaslighting crap has been exhausted.

As for the second, if what they valued most was getting a 1st, then holding out would've been the smarter idea. Of course, if they wanted to rack up some picks with good draft position, and get a prospect with good upside on top of that, waiting for the TDL would have been a bad idea.

Not sure how stating a fact about the players you chose to compare him to is gaslighting.

Also I don't really see a reason why they couldn't still get return at the TDL. I would argue they could probably get more since more teams will know if they are in position to make playoff push. That plus injuries means that there will likely be more desperation and that means a greater return.

It’s rare for them to make an impact the first year, not make the team . Hedman, Doughty, Pronger to name a few were at best second pairing guys coming out of the draft. Fowler was an ok second pair guy but was also almost 19 when the season started.

A rookie coming in and playing at a 2nd line level is pretty impactful imo especially for a team that had Jake McCabe as their number 3 last season.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

It's possible but that's far from a sure thing. The Sabres are still rebuilding so they probably won't be a contender for a few years but they add a really strong winger in Skinner. Plus if Mittelstadt becomes a regular fixture, he could put up some solid numbers for them. He looked really good for a rookie in his short stint last season. They also have other young talent like Tage Thompson and Sam Reinhart who could add some improved secondary scoring for them. Losing ROR hurts but Mittelstadt, Skinner, and Sheary should be able to help pick up the offense.

Also, their defense was atrocious last season so the addition of Dahlin should help that a lot. Also, if Zach Bogosian is healthy (and can stay healthy), that's another solid D they didn't have last year. Risto is always good but he's just one guy. Having Bogo and Dahlin on the blueline should go a long way in improving that team's D for the coming season.

They're obviously gearing to contend in a few years after their young guys get more NHL experience and development but I wouldn't be surprised to see them have a decent year and be a fringe team this season.

Whatever it was that infected Oilers fans every year they had a high pick (which is pretty much every year), you've caught it. The Sabres are dismal and Dahlin won't change that, not even with Bogo and Skinner along for the ride.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Yes it is, this is a bubble team we're not likely to get as good of goaltending this year,

Why not?

We were a bad defensive team carried by it and I don't see how you can say this team is any better than when we last saw them, unless young players can step in and contribute right now

The last time we saw them they were like 17-2 or something before the Sharks showed them that it might be nice to play with the barest amount of professional pride. No, it wasn't all goaltending.

 

[Trojans86]

Yes it is, this is a bubble team we're not likely to get as good of goaltending this year, which was arguably the best. We were a bad defensive team carried by it and I don't see how you can say this team is any better than when we last saw them, unless young players can step in and contribute right now

You arent factoring in the injuries. We were completely decimated and still placed 2nd in the pacific. Even if goaltending isnt as good we should be significantly better if Kesler is okay. If Eaves and some of the youngs guys fill in we should be better even without Kesler.

So much depends on the health of the team.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Why not?

The last time we saw them they were like 17-2 or something before the Sharks showed them that it might be nice to play with the barest amount off professional pride. No, it wasn't all goaltending.

At the end of last season I read some shot charts and other analysis that showed the ducks gave up a ton of high danger chances and that our two goalies performed very well against it, and Gibson was the best goalie short handed in the league. I just wouldn't rely on those things again. This was a bubble team last year with arguably the best goaltending in the league. Where is the improvement coming from?

 

[KaseMeOutside]

You arent factoring in the injuries. We were completely decimated and still places 2nd in the west. Even if goaltending isnt as good we should be significantly better if Kesler is okay. If Eaves and some of the youngs guys fill in we should be better even without Kesler.

So much depends on the health of the team.

Those two players have a ton of miles on them, and Kesler had an extremely serious injury when it comes to playing hockey

 

[Trojans86]

Those two players have a ton of miles on them, and Kesler had an extremely serious injury when it comes to playing hockey

Even Getzlaf missed a ton of time
Grantzlaf was our top line center at times. I get it we dont know what we have in Kesler and Eaves but if we are decently healthy we should be better than last year. I will agree that we were completely middle of the road last year and if Kesler isnt healthy we will be again, but I still think we should be better than last year.

 

[Static]

At the end of last season I read some shot charts and other analysis that showed the ducks gave up a ton of high danger chances and that our two goalies performed very well against it, and Gibson was the best goalie short handed in the league. I just wouldn't rely on those things again. This was a bubble team last year with arguably the best goaltending in the league. Where is the improvement coming from?

You don't think improvement will come from not leading the league in injuries? Come on.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

You don't think improvement will come from not leading the league in injuries? Come on.

If Kesler is a fraction of himself again the amount of games he plays isn't that meaningful, same with Eaves. We also don't know if Getz will start showing his age more either.

The coach is the same. The roster is mostly the same just a year older

 

[Sean Garrity]

If Kesler is a fraction of himself again the amount of games he plays isn't that meaningful, same with Eaves. We also don't know if Getz will start showing his age more either.

The coach is the same. The roster is mostly the same just a year older

I think that every center option that we have on our NHL roster is better than last years Kesler, which will also boost the overall roster. He was essentially a 4th liner(barely) playing a 2nd line role.

 

[Paul4587]

I’m not normally one to do this but I’ve got it on good authority that it’s very likely that Eaves and Kesler will play next season. Eaves is almost guaranteed and Kesler is basically guaranteed too.

Not idea how good they will be but I doubt Kesler would come back if hes at 50%.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

At the end of last season I read some shot charts and other analysis that showed the ducks gave up a ton of high danger chances and that our two goalies performed very well against it, and Gibson was the best goalie short handed in the league. I just wouldn't rely on those things again. This was a bubble team last year with arguably the best goaltending in the league. Where is the improvement coming from?

They don't need any improvement to not be a bubble team, because they weren't one last year when healthy. Even though the system was mediocre and the players like visibly had to hold their noses to play it, they had no trouble racking up points.

Gibson and Miller were great, especially early when we might have been buried. Personally I feel like they have more to give, Gibson in particular. I don't think he fluked his way to a great season so I'm not worried that stats god is going to demand that he regress.

Edit - to be clear, I think the team is very badly handicapped by the coach and the team leaders. This team has zero chance of contending. But the premise was whether the roster is mediocre, and I just can't agree with that. Nearly every other team in the league would kill for our group of defensemen and goalie, along with an elite 1C.

 

[Deuce22]

I could respect the argument that the forwards are mediocre, but the D and goalies are excellent.

 

[ohcomeonref]

I just pray Gibson waits until after he signs with us long-term to win his first Vezina.

Or we will have to start calling him Gib$on.

 

[AngelDuck]

I just pray Gibson waits until after he signs with us long-term to win his first Vezina.

Or we will have to start calling him Gib$on.

Going to have to call him that one way or the other. Contract will be huge. One good thing is he’s still set to be an RFA

 

[ADHB]

I could respect the argument that the forwards are mediocre, but the D and goalies are excellent.

Individually, yes. Which makes it all the more frustrating that this team bleeds quality scoring chances.

 

[Rolo]

Hey guys, what's the deal with Kase? Surprised he hasn't been signed yet. What kind of deal do you think he gets.