Speculation: 2018-19 Roster Discussion Part I

[Pinkfloyd]

Vlasic didn't mesh with burns either. He's too competitive and wants to be the top guy on his pairing.

Plus, would you rather have a 1C or our 3rd best D man making 7 mil?

And EK >>>>>>>>>>>> Vlasic 100%. If you say otherwise, you deserve to get roasted.

We need a legitimate 1st line forward. We don't need 3 top pairing defensemen.

Vlasic not meshing with Burns is not relevant. The second line is purely speculative.

Secondly, Nylander as a 1C is far from a guarantee. Also, no guarantee that Vlasic would be willing to waive his clause for Toronto.

As for EK>Vlasic, so what? Of course I'd prefer Karlsson if necessary but it's not. The team could definitely use a top line forward. Trading Vlasic is hardly the way to go about doing it. The Sharks need to try and get that top line forward through other means rather than trading something that will be a great strength if people just let them play. It's freaking game six and people are already freaking out and saying the most ridiculous things. Trade Vlasic. Move Burns to forward. It's been six games. It needs a lot more time to play itself out.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Yeah probably but I think it's wishful thinking that we'd land Nylander. We don't have the assets compared to pretty much anyone else to make that deal.

Well it would have to be a west coast team offering a top 4 D-man and a top 6 or top 9 forward minimum. Toronto isn't as interested in draft picks since they want to make a run this season. I think we realistically could be contenders depending on what DW is willing to add as sweetener.

Maybe:
Braun, Donskoi, Gambrell, 2nd, 5th (do we have one still in the next 2 years?)

or
Meier, Heed, Gambrell, 2nd, 5th

Do the Sharks have another D-man on the Cuda who could be NHL ready for the 3rd pair if injuries hit? Doesn't seem like the Leafs really even need a top 6 forward back. They need D-men. Maybe Heed & Braun? Could the Sharks survive that if one of the top 4 gets hurt?

 

[one2gamble]

Ryan, labanc, gambrell

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Vlasic not meshing with Burns is not relevant. The second line is purely speculative.

Secondly, Nylander as a 1C is far from a guarantee. Also, no guarantee that Vlasic would be willing to waive his clause for Toronto.

As for EK>Vlasic, so what? Of course I'd prefer Karlsson if necessary but it's not. The team could definitely use a top line forward. Trading Vlasic is hardly the way to go about doing it. The Sharks need to try and get that top line forward through other means rather than trading something that will be a great strength if people just let them play. It's freaking game six and people are already freaking out and saying the most ridiculous things. Trade Vlasic. Move Burns to forward. It's been six games. It needs a lot more time to play itself out.

It's been shown pickles isn't good with elite offensive D men. Before you say Doughty, Doughty is more of a two way player than an offensive juggernaut like burns or EK. He's logged enough minutes with burns and Karlsson to prove that.

You pretty much always trade from a position of strength to shore up your weakness. We need a top line forward, we have surplus at D. If Toronto will take a package around Braun excluding Timo, Merkely, or LaBanc, yea, I'd much rather do that, but that's probably not even going to get dubas to return the phone call.

Also, Vlasics contract is pretttyyyyy terrible. 7x7 for a 31 year old defensemen, who is very good, but not a guy you build around on D.

With pickles age, lack of chemistry with either of the two D man we'd rather keep, his contract, our lack of top end forwards, and surplus of D men make him expendable.

His individual talent surpasses his role and contribution to the team in his current role. We could put pretty much any decent top 4 guy with EK65 right now and there probably wouldn't be much of a drop off, if at all.

We put Nylander in our top six, and it's a massive improvement.

 

[FunkyPhin]

They need to completely re-work there system is been literally the same thing for 3 years now. Pucks in deep, pass back to the point shot and hope for a tip. It is so unbelievably predictable and easy to defend. They need better set plays down low

 

[5H4RK5]

I suggest since we are an attacking team that applies consistent pressure with EK65 and Burns we should get fast and lean like all the contending teams. Big and brute is not necessary when we tire and consistently check teams. I recommend Hertl go back to his rookie weight with conversion to muscle because he is a skill player and you don't want him slowed down by weight and if Thornton comes back to also get lean for better stamina. Our team should have a weight program that ensures we can play deep into the playoffs and that requires stamina.)

The Leafs and Capitals lost a lot of weight from there big guys and now they can play great for 3 periods.
Ovechkin use to be bulky now lean and fast.
Same with Matthews he was the hulk now he is Bruce Banner.

Excess weight tires out players especially during road games.

 

[Jaleel619]

I don't like Nylander's character. We're trying to win a cup here, DW has all the leverage because the longer this goes, the better it is for us. The leafs miss home ice or a better match up cuz of a couple points and lose? That won't bold well for them. DW should only offer Braun and Karlsson. I'd be happier with Zucc as he's been around long enough to want a cup and not mess around with a good opportunity.

I say let them keep the problem and see what becomes of it, if not, do not give anything extra away.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It's been shown pickles isn't good with elite offensive D men. Before you say Doughty, Doughty is more of a two way player than an offensive juggernaut like burns or EK. He's logged enough minutes with burns and Karlsson to prove that.

You pretty much always trade from a position of strength to shore up your weakness. We need a top line forward, we have surplus at D. If Toronto will take a package around Braun excluding Timo, Merkely, or LaBanc, yea, I'd much rather do that, but that's probably not even going to get dubas to return the phone call.

Also, Vlasics contract is pretttyyyyy terrible. 7x7 for a 31 year old defensemen, who is very good, but not a guy you build around on D.

With pickles age, lack of chemistry with either of the two D man we'd rather keep, his contract, our lack of top end forwards, and surplus of D men make him expendable.

His individual talent surpasses his role and contribution to the team in his current role. We could put pretty much any decent top 4 guy with EK65 right now and there probably wouldn't be much of a drop off, if at all.

We put Nylander in our top six, and it's a massive improvement.

It's been shown that one time with Burns doesn't mean that Vlasic won't work with Karlsson after some time. Even that time wasn't as poor as people here like to make it out to be.

Also, trading Vlasic isn't trading from a position of strength just based on his contract's movement restrictions. That alone will not return a top line forward so it's just best to drop it because it just won't happen.

 

[Mafoofoo]

It's simple. We trade Karlsson for Doughty and re-create that Doughty-Vlasic pairing that team canada had.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

It's been shown that one time with Burns doesn't mean that Vlasic won't work with Karlsson after some time. Even that time wasn't as poor as people here like to make it out to be.

Also, trading Vlasic isn't trading from a position of strength just based on his contract's movement restrictions. That alone will not return a top line forward so it's just best to drop it because it just won't happen.

So, however many shifts with Burns and Karlsson are proving a trend? Seems like it is.

Who's to say Vlasic wouldn't go to Toronto? Who's to say he wouldn't go want to go to a team that makes the best offer for him? Who is to say there's no way he could ever get moved?

Also, isn't the point of a thread based around trades and roster moves to propose ideas about said topics? We're only aloud to talk about things that are 100% happening? Okay guys. Shut it down. No more trade proposals or lines you want to see because pink Floyd said so.

 

[LA Shark]

The idea that Vlasic has been the reason that pairing is struggling is laughable to me. I know it's blasphemy to say anything negative about EK, but he's been a much bigger liability than Vlasic this year.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Yeah probably but I think it's wishful thinking that we'd land Nylander. We don't have the assets compared to pretty much anyone else to make that deal.

That's exactly what we heard all summer about Karlsson. Maybe not from you per se but it was a common point made in general. DW is a big game hunter and this kid qualifies. They need D-men and we have more than we need compared with our need for a center.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Ryan, labanc, gambrell

They would want someone with more of a track record as far as the D-man. They're in win now mode.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

It's been shown pickles isn't good with elite offensive D men. Before you say Doughty, Doughty is more of a two way player than an offensive juggernaut like burns or EK. He's logged enough minutes with burns and Karlsson to prove that.

No. No he hasn't. It's been 6 games. If they're minus players at the 20 game mark then you might have a point. Right now you sound like chicken little.

 

[Gecklund]

I wouldn’t give any of Meier, Labanc, or Ryan for Nylander straight up. He’s not even signed.

 

[do0glas]

The idea that Vlasic has been the reason that pairing is struggling is laughable to me. I know it's blasphemy to say anything negative about EK, but he's been a much bigger liability than Vlasic this year.

No one is saying they are struggling. They actually are dominant except gf% it may just be time until pucks start going in.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I have seen Labanc and Couture miss an open EK65 multiple times on the PP. I have seen Vlasic take shots in even strength situations when he should pass to an open EK65. I think the team needs to be aware of finding EK65 in these situations so that we can properly utilize him.

You know which player I see trying to find EK65 more often than not on the PP. Brent Burns.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

So, however many shifts with Burns and Karlsson are proving a trend? Seems like it is.

Who's to say Vlasic wouldn't go to Toronto? Who's to say he wouldn't go want to go to a team that makes the best offer for him? Who is to say there's no way he could ever get moved?

Also, isn't the point of a thread based around trades and roster moves to propose ideas about said topics? We're only aloud to talk about things that are 100% happening? Okay guys. Shut it down. No more trade proposals or lines you want to see because pink Floyd said so.

Show this trend and tell me how the six regular season games and two preseason games isn't a small sample size in which to come to such a conclusion when it comes to Karlsson.

Who is to say that Vlasic would go to Toronto? Why would he choose to uproot his life here to go to Toronto? Montreal? Yeah, I could see that because that's home for him. Toronto? Very doubtful. If Vlasic gave a rat's ass about who would give him the best offer in a trade (and I can't see why any player actually would), why be the one guy that asks and gets a full NMC? Players don't do that if they intend to leave.

And way to build a straw man about the discussion. There is an unspoken understanding that the point of this thread is to somewhat keep it within the realm of realistic. I've said exactly why it isn't realistic and deep down you know it's true. Vlasic with his contract length and movement clause in all likelihood doesn't return a top line forward. If Karlsson on a much better contract couldn't do it when he is viewed as a more valuable player, what would make anyone think Vlasic would with all that's attached to his deal?

That's exactly what we heard all summer about Karlsson. Maybe not from you per se but it was a common point made in general. DW is a big game hunter and this kid qualifies. They need D-men and we have more than we need compared with our need for a center.

Yeah he's a big game hunter but these are different circumstances. Karlsson's way of handling his situation took a lot of potential suitors out of the running because he wasn't willing to re-sign at the time of the trade. Nylander wants a long term deal now which means that the team that acquires him has to have at the very least the 7-8 million needed to ink him to a long term deal plus whatever else is necessary to call replacements up after a deal goes down. In the Sharks' case, we're looking at a team with a little over 300k in cap space. The Sharks would need to add Braun, Melker, and Donskoi just to make the money work. But that won't make the value work when a team like say Nashville or Winnipeg has the space and likely more valuable assets to return to Toronto.

 

[Jargon]

I have seen Labanc and Couture miss an open EK65 multiple times on the PP. I have seen Vlasic take shots in even strength situations when he should pass to an open EK65. I think the team needs to be aware of finding EK65 in these situations so that we can properly utilize him.

You know which player I see trying to find EK65 more often than not on the PP. Brent Burns.

I agree. I think Karlsson has looked the best with Burns, actually - they’re both really aware of one another on the ice, both actively seeking each other out, getting open for passes, etc.

Also, to people saying players still have to “find” Karlsson — he’s not like on top of a staunchion, he’s literally at the right point where he should be.

They just need to look up sometimes.

 

[Big Cactus]

I think Nylander would fit really well on the sharks. He’s a fantastic line driver 5 on 5, him and Matthews have been one of the most effective duos in the league at even strength. He’s also a solid powerplay producer (which it seems you boys are desperate for) and his advanced numbers on the PP suggest he’s due to be better with more TOI.

However, I’d be a little apprehensive throwing him into the #1 centre role right away. He’s really only played the position in Sweden/AHL and for maybe 7-8 games in the NHL. He’s probably good enough to be a #2 right off that bat just due to how well he possesses the puck. But his defence might not be good enough to take on first line matchups as a centre. His face off numbers are surprisingly good but that may be because he normally takes the draws exclusively on his strong side. He’s got a good stick but is pretty shy around contact and would definitely need work on that to be trusted in that role.

Problem with all that is I don’t think we would be good trade partners. Although very very good I don’t think Vlasic fits the age of our core and I don’t think you guys would give up a package like Meier and Braun for willy. I think willy has 75+ point potential (maybe less as a centre) so the problem could be that he has more value to our team than he may hold for others. That means making a trade may be pretty difficult.

Anyways I dont want to make this a Nylander thread, I just saw you guys talking about it so I figured I’d provide some background from somebody who gets to watch him everyday. That and the leafs forum gets dumber by the day and I need a break from some of those people. You might see me around here more often lmao. Go sharks!

 

[tony d]

I like Nylander, not sure as a top line player but I can see the fit on the Sharks 2nd line. Braun would have to be going back to Toronto though if such a deal were to happen.

 

[Jaleel619]

I don't know. A lot changes with Thornton on the team, I still think Sumo should play 4C just to give us depth without adding another player.

I don't like how our bottom 6 just feels weak and lacks experience.

I would send down Chartier and call up Francis Perron 6 points in 4 games.
This is what I would like as far as right now

Sorenson-Pavelski-Meier (gets it deep behind the net mainly for possession control)
Kane-Couture-Labanc (makes plays)
Goodrow-Hertl-Karlsson (drives the net)
Perron-Suomela-Donskoi (the 2nd bullet scoring)

Perron or Halebawchs I think could be next in line for call ups.

As far as PP i'd honestly just put EK on the top PP, let him create stuff, and then put Burns on the #2 for a different look. I also don't think its effective if the PP is too good at possession, they stay out there for almost the whole PP and then we lose the momentum the next shift and have to play defense.

 

[Barrie22]

Why are we breaking up the donskoi and suomela line?

I have only seen 2 full games, but that line is one of the most noticeable lines going right now and in a good way.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't know. A lot changes with Thornton on the team, I still think Sumo should play 4C just to give us depth without adding another player.

I don't like how our bottom 6 just feels weak and lacks experience.

The bottom six is weak because their solution to Thornton's absence was to move Kane back up to the top line and replace him there with Sorensen. Sorensen isn't a bad player and probably wouldn't be a bad 3rd liner with the right players but those players aren't Suomela and Donskoi because they don't exactly feed into his more transition style of play. I think they have some internal solutions to the issues but they've yet to try them for whatever reason.

I would send down Chartier and call up Francis Perron 6 points in 4 games.
This is what I would like as far as right now

Sorenson-Pavelski-Meier (gets it deep behind the net mainly for possession control)
Kane-Couture-Labanc (makes plays)
Goodrow-Hertl-Karlsson (drives the net)
Perron-Suomela-Donskoi (the 2nd bullet scoring)

Perron or Halebawchs I think could be next in line for call ups.

That 3rd line is utter garbage that would completely misuse Hertl's talents. Putting Donskoi on the 4th line is also under-utilizing his abilities. I'm not necessarily opposed to calling up Perron but I don't think it's necessary to make all these sorts of changes. Suomela is actually doing very well in the role but they aren't going into the net yet. When you look at Suomela and Donskoi's advanced stats, they are dominating the puck out there and that backs up the eye test from my perspective. Putting a reliable even strength scorer like Kane at their side was the correct move and was working out tremendously. It still works out even without Kane there.

I think putting Meier with Suomela and Donskoi would be a sensible option if Kane is not available for whatever reason. Kane quite simply needs to either be with Suomela and Donskoi or Labanc in order to work effectively, imo. Chartier actually hasn't done too poorly in limited minutes. The 4th line's problem comes back to Melker Karlsson more than anyone else.

Kane-Pavelski-Labanc
Couture-Hertl-Sorensen
Meier-Suomela-Donskoi
Goodrow-Chartier-Karlsson

If it were up to me, I would trade Karlsson to anyone who would take him or waive him and assign him to the Barracuda. If the latter, they'd save 975k if they called up no one and 270k if they called up Perron.

 

[Anomie2029]

I don't think the personnel is the problem, but rather the system they are being told to play.
What worked in 2016 isn't what the Sharks of the 2018-19 season should be playing. Let the players use their skill and hockey sense.
The best goals the team have scored so far have not being from following the system, but taking advantage of the plays in front of them.

The special teams systems are a joke that should have been changed 10 weeks into last season.