Speculation: 2018-19 Roster Discussion Part I

[Pinkfloyd]

If that Mercury News article is directed at this forum, doesn’t that mean that the front office is aware of this forum and its opinions? As much as I love HF and genuinely believe it is full of extremely knowledgeable hockey fans, I highly doubt we have any sort of influence on management or anybody else. I think that Mercury News article was more directed at the fan base in general which is probably actually a lot more dissatisfied with Erik Karlsson and the state of the team than we are.

I don't think someone like Gackle knowing of us means that the front office does. If they get their info from the media in that regard, it's probably being said in a more general sense than specifically citing a forum like this. Even if they did know of us, I don't think it has any influence. Sometimes they just want to know of something like this for laughs more than anything else. lol

 

[tiburon12]

I don't think someone like Gackle knowing of us means that the front office does. If they get their info from the media in that regard, it's probably being said in a more general sense than specifically citing a forum like this. Even if they did know of us, I don't think it has any influence. Sometimes they just want to know of something like this for laughs more than anything else. lol

Someone in the front office, likely an intern or non-senior position, reads this forum. no doubt. On-ice product is more than just the players' execution. Fan engagement is the backbone of a franchise; we generate the money. Whether or not anything hockey related that is discussed on this forum is actually digested and considered by anyone in the org is indeterminable. I dont think anyone in the org would consider the "fire Wilson" posts, but maybe they see the stats JTR posted about Burns w/ and w/o Ryan and look further into it before approaching someone in coaching.

I used to work for a professional sports team, and generally the org was pretty aware of what the fans were thinking. That was in 2013, and i can only assume that with greater engagement in social media by the teams, the greater the acquisition of knowledge about how the fans are feeling.

Gackle could very well be pandering to us and the peeps on Twitter. His content is a distant 2nd to Kurz's

 

[Jargon]

Love seeing photos of Karlsson hanging out with the team. He might not be performing as well as he’d like, but he at least looks like he’s having a good time!

 

[one2gamble]

If gackle was trying to do that he should have agreed with us! Or at minimum countered some of that unfettered positivity

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I don't think someone like Gackle knowing of us means that the front office does. If they get their info from the media in that regard, it's probably being said in a more general sense than specifically citing a forum like this. Even if they did know of us, I don't think it has any influence. Sometimes they just want to know of something like this for laughs more than anything else. lol

Yeah, I didn’t mean that we have influence on any sort of managerial or team based decisions they make. I just mean that perhaps we have influence on their general assessment of the fanbase’s general opinion.

Someone in the front office, likely an intern or non-senior position, reads this forum. no doubt. On-ice product is more than just the players' execution. Fan engagement is the backbone of a franchise; we generate the money. Whether or not anything hockey related that is discussed on this forum is actually digested and considered by anyone in the org is indeterminable. I dont think anyone in the org would consider the "fire Wilson" posts, but maybe they see the stats JTR posted about Burns w/ and w/o Ryan and look further into it before approaching someone in coaching.

I used to work for a professional sports team, and generally the org was pretty aware of what the fans were thinking. That was in 2013, and i can only assume that with greater engagement in social media by the teams, the greater the acquisition of knowledge about how the fans are feeling.

Gackle could very well be pandering to us and the peeps on Twitter. His content is a distant 2nd to Kurz's

If PDB, who literally coaches the team, needs to read numbers that I posted to come to a conclusion along the lines of “Burns does better with Ryan than without him”, then his observational skills are so poor that he really shouldn’t be a head coach.

Those are extremely simple statistics. I’m not the only one who has posted them and things like that really should be common knowledge among the entire organization. I would be disappointed as hell if nobody in the organization had seen those numbers before. But now that I think about it...oh my god, do you really think that nobody in the Sharks organization knows that Brent Burns has ridiculous GF% splits with and without Joakim Ryan?

Goodness gracious. That should be extremely simple stuff that everybody knows. Some kind of more complicated analysis to look into might be how over the past 3 seasons, Washington had a 5V5 GF% 3% above any other team, despite having fairly poor shot based metrics. That’s some analysis that I believe might strike them as compelling and that they might look over. Something like the Burns/Ryan splits, they should all know, but more importantly, PDB should have a strong understanding of this just from watching the game.

Honestly, I came into this discussion thinking that they definitely don’t read this forum at all, but after reading what you just said and thinking it over, it definitely makes sense that they might read this forum. We know that Kurz has posted here before and we know he regularly lurks this forum in order to copy and paste information for his Twitter account, users have speculated that he has been trolling me on Twitter by saying he doesn’t “want to give stats away for free.” It is very possible that the organization reads things here and there but I still believe that if they do, it’s mostly just for a laugh.

Now you guys have me in detective mode. All I will say is that if somebody from the organization is actually reading this forum, I’m a 3rd year business major at San Jose State University, and would love a summer internship in the data analytics field.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

What Mercury News article?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

What Mercury News article?

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

I feel targeted lol. This is a real article. Unreal

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I feel targeted lol. This is a real article. Unreal

Okay, I really don’t get why you guys think this is directed at us. What is it about this article that makes you feel like it is directly targeted towards us at HF?

Keep in mind, Sharks fans on Twitter are unhappy as well. If you look at Kurz’s tweets and responses, you will find a ton of Sharks fans talking about how terrible Erik Karlsson has been, and how the trade was a massive failure.

EDIT: never mind. Just looked through the article and this kinda stood out.

Though the Sharks (9-6-3) are just one point out of first place in the Pacific Division, DeBoer is already facing serious heat from a vocal segment of the fan base that attributes every loss to the team’s unsettled lineup. It’s true, his forward lines are getting reshuffled as frequently as President Trump’s cabinet and his defensive pairings feel more random than the draft lottery.

EDIT 2: Okay, this is definitely about us.

It’s easy to nitpick line combinations and overvalue their impact. That’s what we see from the stands and the press box. It’s how we judge a coach’s work. In reality, the Sharks season isn’t hinging on whether DeBoer plays Melker Karlsson over Rourke Chartier, Joakim Ryan over Tim Heed or who he partners Erik Karlsson with in the first half.

 

[tiburon12]

If PDB, who literally coaches the team, needs to read numbers that I posted to come to a conclusion along the lines of “Burns does better with Ryan than without him”, then his observational skills are so poor that he really shouldn’t be a head coach.

well i didnt mean it was PDB reading them, and i also chose something very simple just as a loose example haha, but you got the point

Honestly, I came into this discussion thinking that they definitely don’t read this forum at all, but after reading what you just said and thinking it over, it definitely makes sense that they might read this forum. We know that Kurz has posted here before and we know he regularly lurks this forum in order to copy and paste information for his Twitter account, users have speculated that he has been trolling me on Twitter by saying he doesn’t “want to give stats away for free.” It is very possible that the organization reads things here and there but I still believe that if they do, it’s mostly just for a laugh.

I can't be certain, but i am very, very confident at least one person in the org reads this forum. But again, whether or not anything said here ever makes it to a real decision maker is impossible to know, and very unlikely.

Kurz and Gackle, however, who are not employed by the team, most certainly patrol these boards and other major hockey forums. it behooves them to do so.

Now you guys have me in detective mode. All I will say is that if somebody from the organization is actually reading this forum, I’m a 3rd year business major at San Jose State University, and would love a summer internship in the data analytics field.

. But if you are hired you definitely can't post here anymore! lol

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

So, yes, it was written just for us.

 

[tiburon12]

So, yes, it was written just for us.

good sleuthing, let's see how this plays out

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

So, yes, it was written just for us.

Ohhh okay! Sometimes I forget fans on twitter/reddit also get up in arms about this stuff too lol. Moreso on twitter (admittedly, I'm active (kinda) on all 3)

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Calling somebody "Trumpian" absolutely is a personal attack and we both know it.

You tried to claim I was attacking you prior to me making that analogy. Still, it's more an example to explain your behavior, not actually an attack.

His zone starts have become more difficult, and that may have an impact, but nowhere near enough of an impact to explain this drop in numbers. Same with his change in linemates.

lol! "may"... that's hilariously short sighted. Of course those two factors are huge reasons for his goal scoring and advanced stats. Whatever. Like I said agree to disagree. Good luck buddy.

 

[DG93]

Totally disagree. Couture was facing the leftovers in 2016 while Jumbos line faced all the best defensive players the other teams had to throw at them. Couture feasted on much easier 2nd tier competition back then but right now playing on the teams clear #1 line, he's facing the other teams best and still almost matching those point totals and being highly effective.

I may be misremembering, but wasn't the Marleau-Couture pairing + Vlasic-Braun the Sharks shutdown unit in the playoffs while the Thornton line + Burns feasted on secondary competition?

 

[do0glas]

I know everyone wants ryan to get more ice time, but you have to remember a guy like braun, with seniority will be given top 4 ice time.

Also dont forget the contract effects. It wouldn't surprise me to see ice time as a stipulation.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Regarding Melker Karlsson...I think when he first came on the team, he was an above-average skater on an immobile forwards corps. He had decent stick skills, would carry the puck in, and would drive the net on a roster filled with passing player who preferred to dump and cycle the puck. More than that, he had a varied skill set and could play so many roles because of that.

Now, the Sharks have more talent in those areas, and Karlsson's game has really fallen off a cliff. His hockey sense has gotten even worse, and his puck and stick skills have disappeared.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I may be misremembering, but wasn't the Marleau-Couture pairing + Vlasic-Braun the Sharks shutdown unit in the playoffs while the Thornton line + Burns feasted on secondary competition?

Best offensive players aren't always the best defensive players. Last change matters as does an opposing coach who just immediately changes out his D-pair and or forwards when Jumbos line is on the ice. Plenty of coaches used quick on the fly changes after face-offs to get the defensive matches they want while having last change, especially in the playoffs.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Regarding Melker Karlsson...I think when he first came on the team, he was an above-average skater on an immobile forwards corps. He had decent stick skills, would carry the puck in, and would drive the net on a roster filled with passing player who preferred to dump and cycle the puck. More than that, he had a varied skill set and could play so many roles because of that.

Now, the Sharks have more talent in those areas, and Karlsson's game has really fallen off a cliff. His hockey sense has gotten even worse, and his puck and stick skills have disappeared.

I think the league just got faster so his speed doesn't stand out relative to his team or his opponents. I don't buy that an NHL player loses their stick skill hockey sense at his age unless he's dealing with traumatic brain injury. If anything players his age range would get a little better as they adapt to the league and by playing with NHL players instead of the league he came from. He's too young to be suffering age related regression. I just don't buy he's fallen off a cliff, I think it's deployment.

 

[5H4RK5]

Alright you asked for it Deboer

Ek65 Dillon Vlasic
Burns Braun Ryan
Karlsson Goodrow Sumo
Hertl Kane Couture


Thornton Pavs
Meier Labanc
Dell Jones

Donskoi
Sorensen

 

[Sysreq]

I think Melker needs to go because of cap space more than anything. If Melker was a 625k a year rookie on an ELC, I would be perfectly content with his play. At 2 million though, I expect more from him.

 

[SjMilhouse]

I know everyone wants ryan to get more ice time, but you have to remember a guy like braun, with seniority will be given top 4 ice time.

Also dont forget the contract effects. It wouldn't surprise me to see ice time as a stipulation.

If a player is complaining/demanding ice time over players who have played as well or better based on "seniority" and it's to the detriment of the overall team performance, that player should be dealt.

If Vlasic and Braun are actually throwing a hissy fit like we've been joking about, that says a lot more about their character than I'd like to believe and I'd want them both moved for players who are willing to do whatever it takes for the team to win now for their own personal minutes.

Braun I can understand because he needs to get paid but Vlasic just got his retirement deal...if he truly is unhappy/jealous/w.e then that's a problem.

 

[one2gamble]

Ohhh okay! Sometimes I forget fans on twitter/reddit also get up in arms about this stuff too lol. Moreso on twitter (admittedly, I'm active (kinda) on all 3)

Reddit is largely positive and nowhere near as analytical as this forum. Twitter is just noise and its largely 60/40 positive

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I know everyone wants ryan to get more ice time, but you have to remember a guy like braun, with seniority will be given top 4 ice time.

Also dont forget the contract effects. It wouldn't surprise me to see ice time as a stipulation.

I can understand that for special teams shifts and late-in-game shifts but not before then. I don't know what you're talking about with regards to contract effects. I don't think impacts things in that manner specifically at least. I can understand bigger money contracts biasing their shifts to try and get their money's worth out of guys but in this particular case, it doesn't have to come at the expense of Ryan and the Ryan-Burns pairing.

 

[rangerssharks414]

(IDK how to quote a quote...but) no way the merc actually wrote those words. Good Christmas

Click on "Insert..." on the bottom of the page, and copy/paste the quote in between the quote tags.