2018-19 Avalanche Tank Thread

[AvsFan29]

...I...did I enter the wrong thread?

What does being part of a successful NHL team, have to do with the end of the Avs season? There is no success. Winning 7 instead of 4 of their final games isn't a success.

 

[AvsFan29]

The fact that this team and apparently majority of the fans are part of a losing culture.

I have no problem hoping they lose the majority of the remaining games. It's much more beneficial to the team in the long run. I don't feel like explaining this any more.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I have no problem hoping they lose the majority of the remaining games. It's much more beneficial to the team in the long run. I don't feel like explaining this any more.

It’s not though. History has told us this that repeating this cycle over and over again isn’t beneficial to us being good long term.

 

[Balthazar]

Some people assume that the players will be happier at the end if they finish on the bubble than if they lose most of their remaining games. Don't.

 

[ANewHope]

Some people assume that the players will be happier at the end if they finish on the bubble than if they lose most of their remaining games. Don't.

Yeah. Nobody in that room is celebrating winning an extra 3-4 games. When we actually compete, assuming we don't mess things up, the room will be entirely different anyways. If we plan on firing Bednar than these remaining games are that much more useless.

The cycle has already been repeated. Nothing's changing that unless the Yotes tank. It is what it is. The damage has already happened. Another disappointing season.

 

[AvsFan29]

It’s not though. History has told us this that repeating this cycle over and over again isn’t beneficial to us being good long term.

It's already over. We aren't making the playoffs. You keep saying losing = bad.

Yah we know.

We want a chance at a higher pick.

 

[klozge]

Some people assume that the players will be happier at the end if they finish on the bubble than if they lose most of their remaining games. Don't.

It's what the Altidudes are preaching in the end of the bad seasons so people keep watching because they think the games still matter in some way.
Edit: Not saying that I won't watch the remaining games. It takes quite a bit for me not to watch the Avs play.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

It's not about liking losing. I can live with losing if it's for the greater good or the best my team is capable of...I was talking about tanking for Landy the day the SJ series ended when the rebuild first started...but this franchise has most of its core talent in place already, will be adding another core piece via the OTT pick, and has the necessary surplus of futures & capspace to fill in the gaps. We've reached the point in our rebuild where we need to stop spinning our wheels in place & start learning how to win ASAFP if we don't want to be stuck in the ever-tank.

The last time this franchise made consecutive postseasons there was a season-long lockout in the middle of it. If they miss this year then even if we take off from there, it will have been 15 years between consecutive playoff berths for this franchise. You can't wait around for that kind of acceptance of failure to dissipate or it'll just continue leaking into future seasons. I'm sure that some people are just born more genetically resilient, but that is still a trait that is learned by most. And finally beginning to learn that lesson is well worth dropping from the 7th-8th to the 13th-14th pick if that's the price that finally starts that process.

You see...we can still find things to agree on. Good post.

 

[Foppberg]

That is the other way round. The fans want this team to win and the best way to do this is getting a high second pick.

True. Just ask Buffalo or Edmonton or Florida.

 

[Foppa2118]

That is the other way round. The fans want this team to win and the best way to do this is getting a high second pick.

The best way to win is to learn how to win. Not learn how to lose.

High draft picks aren't a guarantee to help with this. Just ask Edmonton. Or the Avalanche.

 

[Balthazar]

The best way to win is to learn how to win. Not learn how to lose. High draft picks aren't a guarantee to help with this. Just ask Edmonton. Or the Avalanche.

Finishing on the bubble doesn't help long term either. Just ask Carolina. It's the worst place to finish in hockey.

It's honestly the last year that I care about a draft pick to help the MacKinnon core. Starting next year I won't give a crap I just want wins. Trade the 1st for help if need be.

 

[Forceberg]

The best way to win is to learn how to win. Not learn how to lose.

High draft picks aren't a guarantee to help with this. Just ask Edmonton. Or the Avalanche.

How is DET looking without tanking? Ask PIT if they were lucky with their picks. You can find arguments on every team. But when your players arent good enough, they are not!! MacK knows how to win. Even Duchene knows it or hasnt he won gold? You can learn how to win that is correct, but the team has to be good enough.

 

[Foppa2118]

How is DET looking without tanking? Ask PIT if they were lucky with their picks. You can find arguments on every team. But when your players arent good enough, they are not!! MacK knows how to win. Even Duchene knows it or hasnt he won gold? You can learn how to win that is correct, but the team has to be good enough.

Pittsburgh learned how to win. Specifically in their run that fell short in the finals in 2008. This is why you need to make the playoffs, so that you learn what leads to big wins and losses. When they became a winning team they didn't play like the Avalanche do, they played like winning teams.

Detroit is where they are because they made the playoffs 24 out of 26 years, and finally had to commit to a rebuild after all their success. I don't think Duchene's gold medals are proof that he knows how to win with an NHL club either.

When you keep losing every season, it becomes easier to accept. You've learned to deal with it multiple times. This is what happened in Edmonton, and this is what happened to the previous group the Avs were going with. When you lose all the time, the only thing you learn is that it's not the end of the world, and this is the wrong mindset to have in competitive sports.

 

[AvsFan29]

Pittsburgh learned how to win. Specifically in their run that fell short in the finals in 2008. This is why you need to make the playoffs, so that you learn what leads to big wins and losses. When they became a winning team they didn't play like the Avalanche do, they played like winning teams.

Detroit is where they are because they made the playoffs 24 out of 26 years, and finally had to commit to a rebuild after all their success. I don't think Duchene's gold medals are proof that he knows how to win with an NHL club either.

When you keep losing every season, it becomes easier to accept. You've learned to deal with it multiple times. This is what happened in Edmonton, and this is what happened to the previous group the Avs were going with. When you lose all the time, the only thing you learn is that it's not the end of the world, and this is the wrong mindset to have in competitive sports.

This roster has barely been together 2 years, and will change even more next year. The core guys like MacKinnon / Rantanen / Landeskog / Johnson / Varlamov, absolutely want to win, and there's nothing that suggests otherwise.

The fact is, the team isn't ready yet. We are drafting and developing players to build a team, and a higher pick will likely shorten the time it takes.

 

[Foppa2118]

This roster has barely been together 2 years, and will change even more next year. The core guys like MacKinnon / Rantanen / Landeskog / Johnson / Varlamov, absolutely want to win, and there's nothing that suggests otherwise.

The fact is, the team isn't ready yet. We are drafting and developing players to build a team, and a higher pick will likely shorten the time it takes.

I'm not saying this current group has learned to lose. I'm saying if they keep having losing seasons they will.

The only way to prevent that mindset from seeping in during a losing season is to keep fighting for the playoffs. Don't accept it, get pissed off, and do something about it.

 

[Balthazar]

I'm not saying this current group has learned to lose. I'm saying if they keep having losing seasons they will.

The only way to prevent that mindset from seeping in during a losing season is to keep fighting for the playoffs. Don't accept it, get pissed off, and do something about it.

That core just had a season with no starting goalie, no 1D and no legit bottom 9 player outside of Soda. We're also a year away from making the playoffs on the very last game of the season and 2 years away from the worst season in the salary cap era. Your expectations for this team this year were too high (so were mine). This isn't even a playoff team on paper. This is a weak team that still needs serious help.

 

[Foppa2118]

That core just had a season with no starting goalie, no 1D and no legit bottom 9 player outside of Soda. We're also a year away from making the playoffs on the very last game of the season and 2 years away from the worst season in the salary cap era. Your expectations for this team this year were too high (so were mine). This isn't even a playoff team on paper. This is a weak team that still needs serious help.

Not directing this towards you, but that sounds more like an excuse IMO.

The Avs were in the playoffs on Feb 2nd. If Arizona wins today, the Avs will be seven points out of the playoffs only a month and a half later. They played their way out of the playoffs.

Arizona is not a better team on paper than the Avs. They just wanted to win more.

 

[AvsFan29]

That core just had a season with no starting goalie, no 1D and no legit bottom 9 player outside of Soda. We're also a year away from making the playoffs on the very last game of the season and 2 years away from the worst season in the salary cap era. Your expectations for this team this year were too high (so were mine). This isn't even a playoff team on paper. This is a weak team that still needs serious help.

Need a second line and a bolstered bottom 6 before we even bother with the playoffs.

We would have been manhandled this year if we snuck in. The second top 10 pick will be helpful in the future when we are contending (2-3 years)

 

[Balthazar]

Not directing this towards you, but that sounds more like an excuse IMO.

The Avs were in the playoffs on Feb 2nd. If Arizona wins today, the Avs will be seven points out of the playoffs only a month and a half later. They played their way out of the playoffs.

Arizona is not a better team on paper than the Avs. They just wanted to win more.

AZ dont rely on only 4 forwards and 8 passengers to get the job done. Everyone knew the way we won games during the first 2 months was unsustainable.

 

[Foppa2118]

AZ dont rely on only 4 forwards and 8 passengers to get the job done. Everyone knew the way we won games during the first 2 months was unsustainable.

That's because Arizona wants to win more, and they don't make the same kind of mistakes the Avs do. They're not a better team on paper. Neither is their bottom 9.

 

[Balthazar]

That's because Arizona wants to win more. They're not a better team.

Disagree. Did you see how happy the Avs players were when they won their last game? Joy everywhere, huge hugs and smiles. They want it as much as any other team.

 

[Foppa2118]

Disagree. Did you see how happy the Avs players were when they won their last game? Joy everywhere, huge hugs and smiles. They want it as much as any other team.

Everyone is happy when they win. How did the Avs look in the must win game against Anaheim, after being shut out two of their last three? Not how Arizona looks, that's for sure.

 

[AvsFan29]

The Avs lost to the Ducks because they also want a better pick

 

[Balthazar]

Chicago is about to pass us

 

[Hasbro]

Forgive my ignorance but is there any evidence that teams who tank are consistently improving in the years to follow? Besides the Pens in the 80s... what does losing on purpose do for the morale and mental fortitude of a team? We have two effing lottery picks. I wanna see them play their asses off in these last eleven games and hit the summer looking ahead at the incoming talent with optimism rather than desperation.

The last team to win the cup without a top 2 pick on their roster was Detroit.