Speculation: 2017 Trade Deadline Discussion (Buy/Sell, Rumors, Trades, Scouts, etc.)

[Paxon]

I would not trade Kane straight up for Sergachev. I have no idea why anybody thinks that guy is a sure thing. He has potential, but he's still a pretty big gamble. And he's probably 2 years away. No thanks.

Well, of course he isn't a sure thing. That doesn't invalidate the notion of trading for him. He's a very high-end defensive prospect. Let's not pretend Kane is a sure thing. He's not a sure thing to not implode off the ice. He's not a sure thing to live up to the kind of contract many are suggesting we should or would have to give him.

 

[Der Jaeger]

If a team like Montreal really thinks Kane puts them over the top, and puts Sergachev out there.....

Or

A team like Boston thinks Kane puts them ahead of Toronto and puts McAvoy out there....

Or

A team like Vancouver thinks Kane gets them back into the playoff race, and offers up Juolevi....

GMTM needs to measure the amount of time he takes to say "yes" in nanoseconds.

 

[truthbluth]

Well, of course he isn't a sure thing. That doesn't invalidate the notion of trading for him. He's a very high-end defensive prospect. Let's not pretend Kane is a sure thing. He's not a sure thing to not implode off the ice. He's not a sure thing to live up to the kind of contract many are suggesting we should or would have to give him.

This isn't just about prospects in general, this is about THAT prospect who gets absurdly overrated because Montreal drafted him. I didn't like him all that much in the draft, and I like him less now. People act as if he's a blue chip prospect and he isn't. I'd trade Kane for McAvoy, Chabot, or Chychrun. Just not Sergachev (or Juolevi). Your point about Kane is correct though. He's not a sure thing, which is why I'd trade him at all.

 

[Blitz]

This isn't just about prospects in general, this is about THAT prospect who gets absurdly overrated because Montreal drafted him. I didn't like him all that much in the draft, and I like him less now. People act as if he's a blue chip prospect and he isn't. I'd trade Kane for McAvoy, Chabot, or Chychrun. Just not Sergachev (or Juolevi). Your point about Kane is correct though. He's not a sure thing, which is why I'd trade him at all.

We should already have Sergachev in the stable here IMO. GMTM muffed that pick by taking Nylander when Sergachev, McAvoy, Bean and Chychrun were still on the board - I'm not sure I do Kane straight up for one of those guys right now due to our anemic offense going into 2017/18, but if there's even a small add from the other GM my wheels are turning.

 

[Snippit]

We should already have Sergachev in the stable here IMO. GMTM muffed that pick by taking Nylander when Sergachev, McAvoy, Bean and Chychrun were still on the board - I'm not sure I do Kane straight up for one of those guys right now due to our anemic offense going into 2017/18, but if there's even a small add from the other GM my wheels are turning.

Bean is not that good.

But we still should have taken Serg

 

[Djp]

Not necessarily true. Buffalo has an abundance of right shot winners. And they're trying to force a couple to LW. It's not working out as they hoped. We're short on left shot LW'ers.

current Buffalo has who can play LW: Kane, Foligno, Girgensons. In the prospects---Nylanser and Fasching can play LW. Remember Vanek always played on the opposite wing. Its not a big deal to have wingers flip sides.

Didn't blow it. We lost two lotteries. We did grow impatient and start trading prospects for better players. But which of those prospects looks like he could make even this team?

Buffalo had too many propsects and had to deal some of them.

Kane = 1st+ Armia+ Lemieux
ROR = 2nd + Grigorenko + Zadorov

people on here are so biased toward prospect pool and not actual NHL team

What about David Bolland. He is on a LTIR... seems to count at 50% against the cap.
3 years left at $5 million. Similar to Ennis and Moulson contracts.
Does Arizona want some veterans added after losing Doan after the season?
They will have 26 million space available.

Matt Moulson and a 3rd for Bolland?

LTIR counts filly against the cap ---the cap relief amounts to how much a team is using against the cap space.

please understand whats necessary for LTIR cap space. You have to keep him as part f the roster on day 1 before you can put him on LTIR. Sure now they could use his space and then call up their ELC players against that. remember after next year Buffalo will have a bunch of players ending their ELC and then need to clear waivers so they cant be sent down on paper and be called back up. much of his space will be dead cap space.

Also remember LTIR paid salary also factors into the roll over cap to the enxt year.

Buffalo can not take a LTIR cap dump like Bolland.


If d rather just trade Moulson at 50% retained in the off season.

 

[OkimLom]

This isn't just about prospects in general, this is about THAT prospect who gets absurdly overrated because Montreal drafted him. I didn't like him all that much in the draft, and I like him less now. People act as if he's a blue chip prospect and he isn't. I'd trade Kane for McAvoy, Chabot, or Chychrun. Just not Sergachev (or Juolevi). Your point about Kane is correct though. He's not a sure thing, which is why I'd trade him at all.

Why do you think he's overrated? And why do you like him less now?

 

[AustonsNostrils]

And what about Sergachev as a prospect don't you like?

 

[Paxon]

This isn't just about prospects in general, this is about THAT prospect who gets absurdly overrated because Montreal drafted him. I didn't like him all that much in the draft, and I like him less now. People act as if he's a blue chip prospect and he isn't. I'd trade Kane for McAvoy, Chabot, or Chychrun. Just not Sergachev (or Juolevi). Your point about Kane is correct though. He's not a sure thing, which is why I'd trade him at all.

Fair enough. I like Sergachev's prognosis enough to pull the trigger. I thought you just weren't into trading him for a prospect/very young player.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Kane is going to want a raise in the 1m range maybe more combined with term IMO.

I'm not 100 comfortable with this in a vacuum let alone considering the raises Sam & Jack will get & making 2 worthwhile additions to the d.

The only way Kane fits long term is if Ennis & Moulson are both cleared.

Clearing Ennis & Moulson will likely cost assets.

Improving the d will likely cost assets

Given this I just don't think Kane is worth it. Sell high.

I doubt very much Kane asks/gets more then 6 mil per. 6 mil per would put him tied for 7th with 4 other players. Kane knows about his off ice troubles and the fact that there are many GMs who would be leery of signing him period. The only LWs who make more then 6 mil per are Ovechkin, Nash, Parise, Daniel Seein, Gaudreau and Marleau. Pavelski, Lucic, Eberle and Forsberg all make 6. Jamie Benns 9.5 mil per deal kicks in next year. Marchands 6.125 mil per deal also kicks in next year. Kane is not as good as Marchand and the gap is quite big. He isn't making more then him. Kane gets 6 mil at the most.Kane is a top 10-15 LW when he is playing at his optimal level.That's a fair assessment. But he isn't one of the elite top 5 at the position.Kane and his agent will know that he really has no leverage to ask for more then 6. There's literally almost zero chance he is making near or over 7 mil per. It's just not going to happen.

Along with the aforementioned salary, giving Kane term is fine with Me. The guy will be 26 when his deal expires. He turns 27 a few months before the season starts when he signs his new deal. Even giving him 8 years Kane would be only 34. Hell, Murray signed Moulson to a deal that will have him be 35 when it expires, same thing with Okposo. So giving a long term deal to a winger until their mid 30s doesn't scare off Murray.

 

[Yatzhee]

current Buffalo has who can play LW: Kane, Foligno, Girgensons. In the prospects---Nylanser and Fasching can play LW. Remember Vanek always played on the opposite wing. Its not a big deal to have wingers flip sides.

Hmmmmmm, while I know you want to believe this the numbers do not bare this out.

So, I used capfriendly and current team NHL websites to see if your belief holds water. Here is what I found. Less than 17% of the wingers in the NHL currently play on their off wing.

How do you explain your comment of its no big deal when obviously every structured roster up and down the organized hockey world is dictating otherwise?

 

[truthbluth]

Why do you think he's overrated? And why do you like him less now?

I don't love his style. I think he plays wild at times, lacking control. I don't see his game translating to the NHL when the play is tighter, and he isn't physically dominant anymore. I like him less now because of how hyped he is. The idea that he's too good a prospect for Montreal to give up for Duchene? That's why I like him less, which I do realize is irrational.

 

[Ethan Edwards]

This isn't just about prospects in general, this is about THAT prospect who gets absurdly overrated because Montreal drafted him. I didn't like him all that much in the draft, and I like him less now.

Partial agreement here. The idea of Kane for Sergachyov aside, opinions on the latter that I've received from some pretty knowledgeable folks are all over the map. From #1 lock to "what on earth is he doing out there?" I was all for the Nylander pick over Serg, and time will tell on that, but there is this default mentality that Serg is this stellar, mensch prospect who is a future stud. Yeah, maybe. If he puts it together he will be...but will he put it all together? That's always the question, isn't it? I haven't watched him as much as others, but when I have watched I agree--he's been all over the map. He's no lock as many seem to think, but on the other hand all the tools are there and he's got lots more development left. Definitely potential there to be a high-impact Dman. He's someone I'd love to trade for, no doubt, but I also don't hold him in nearly the same esteem as others.

 

[jvirk]

I doubt very much Kane asks/gets more then 6 mil per. 6 mil per would put him tied for 7th with 4 other players. Kane knows about his off ice troubles and the fact that there are many GMs who would be leery of signing him period. The only LWs who make more then 6 mil per are Ovechkin, Nash, Parise, Daniel Seein, Gaudreau and Marleau. Pavelski, Lucic, Eberle and Forsberg all make 6. Jamie Benns 9.5 mil per deal kicks in next year. Marchands 6.125 mil per deal also kicks in next year. Kane is not as good as Marchand and the gap is quite big. He isn't making more then him. Kane gets 6 mil at the most.Kane is a top 10-15 LW when he is playing at his optimal level.That's a fair assessment. But he isn't one of the elite top 5 at the position.Kane and his agent will know that he really has no leverage to ask for more then 6. There's literally almost zero chance he is making near or over 7 mil per. It's just not going to happen.

Along with the aforementioned salary, giving Kane term is fine with Me. The guy will be 26 when his deal expires. He turns 27 a few months before the season starts when he signs his new deal. Even giving him 8 years Kane would be only 34. Hell, Murray signed Moulson to a deal that will have him be 35 when it expires, same thing with Okposo. So giving a long term deal to a winger until their mid 30s doesn't scare off Murray.

I posted a little while ago how I think Kane would rather have a longer term contract than a short-term contract with slightly more money.

Kane's camp does know he's got an off-ice history which scares GMs and also makes it harder for them to sell to ownership to pay big money, plus he knows he's 27 when his contract is up and has an injury history...plus the style he plays doesn't allow him to play in the NHL when he's 35+ like other guys (Marleau, Thornton, etc...).

I don't think he's going to be THAT coveted on the free agent market like some ppl think for the aforementioned reasons.

If TM wants to re-sign Kane, I think he discusses with Kane's camp about a lower cap hit with more years. This doesn't mean he's taking a discount...it simply means that he's taking a sure fire long term contract with security rather than taking a gamble and risking not only years and dollars but also being in a situation where he's not on a winning team (or at least a team with the potential to win).

I'd offer him a slight raise from his current deal but I'd give him 7 years (5.75M x 7 years). You can also sweeten the pot by adding a limited NTC for certain seasons and/or giving him a little bit more money as a signing bonus to begin the year (ex: if his salary is 5.75M for the season, give him 4M as a signing bonus for the first 4 years before the season begins - similar to O'reilly's).

If in 2-3 years the cap starts to go up again consistently, even at 1M-2M per year, that would be nice. (COME ON CANADIAN DOLLAR!!)

 

[Djp]

On a Kane contract, 5 yrs is the max I'd do.

 

[dotcommunism]

What about David Bolland. He is on a LTIR... seems to count at 50% against the cap.
3 years left at $5 million. Similar to Ennis and Moulson contracts.
Does Arizona want some veterans added after losing Doan after the season?
They will have 26 million space available.

Matt Moulson and a 3rd for Bolland?

Arizona is not trading Bolland for Moulson. With the Pronger and Datsyuk contracts coming off the books this year, Bolland will help Arizona hit the cap floor. More importantly for Arizona, though, is that with Bolland's $5.5M cap hit Arizona is only paying him 20% of his salary.

 

[Talent Analyst]

What is the price for Kulikov? Sorry if it's been discussed.

 

[Gordo21]

I posted a little while ago how I think Kane would rather have a longer term contract than a short-term contract with slightly more money.

Kane's camp does know he's got an off-ice history which scares GMs and also makes it harder for them to sell to ownership to pay big money, plus he knows he's 27 when his contract is up and has an injury history...plus the style he plays doesn't allow him to play in the NHL when he's 35+ like other guys (Marleau, Thornton, etc...).

I don't think he's going to be THAT coveted on the free agent market like some ppl think for the aforementioned reasons.

If TM wants to re-sign Kane, I think he discusses with Kane's camp about a lower cap hit with more years. This doesn't mean he's taking a discount...it simply means that he's taking a sure fire long term contract with security rather than taking a gamble and risking not only years and dollars but also being in a situation where he's not on a winning team (or at least a team with the potential to win).

I'd offer him a slight raise from his current deal but I'd give him 7 years (5.75M x 7 years). You can also sweeten the pot by adding a limited NTC for certain seasons and/or giving him a little bit more money as a signing bonus to begin the year (ex: if his salary is 5.75M for the season, give him 4M as a signing bonus for the first 4 years before the season begins - similar to O'reilly's).

If in 2-3 years the cap starts to go up again consistently, even at 1M-2M per year, that would be nice. (COME ON CANADIAN DOLLAR!!)

In 100% agreement here.

Can't see why Kane wouldn't be all for this as well. That money goes a long long way here. Also, Kane may not realize this now at 25 years of age, but being in a smaller town may actually be what he needs, past transgressions aside. He needs to mature and he needs to mature fast, (for all we know he has), basically though, there are less temptations and opportunities to get in trouble here.

More importantly, he needs to learn from his past, so that whichever team ends up making that type of commitment to him, will not end up regretting the move.

I personally think Kane has all the potential in the world to not only be a great hockey player and teammate, but also to be a fine and respected human being. I truly believe that.

Lets not forget that we are all human and he is still 25 years old. No doubt that he is at the age however where maturity needs to take over.

Additionally, not to state the obvious, this applies to everyone on the team as well.

 

[haseoke39]

What is the price for Kulikov? Sorry if it's been discussed.

If he has to be moved, probably between a second and a late first.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I'm very interested in sergachev. Partially because he's a high end defensive prospect. Partially because he's the high end defensive prospect that would land us an already developed top pairing D.

 

[Gordo21]

I'm very interested in sergachev. Partially because he's a high end defensive prospect. Partially because he's the high end defensive prospect that would land us an already developed top pairing D.

Not if you're giving up Kane to get him. Sergachev that is.

 

[Havok89]

Not if you're giving up Kane to get him.

Not everyone shares your wrong opinion.

 

[Gordo21]

Not everyone shares your wrong opinion.

Why so nasty?

There is talk here about moving Kane to get Sergachev. Do we want to move other major pieces in addition to Kane to get us an established defenseman? Seems like we should be able to do better than that.


Again, not sure why you need to respond like that.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

I would do Kane for Sergachev, Mountour or Juolevi and not think twice. I would prefer someone already in the NHL but if we are talking prospects.

 

[DJN21]

I would do Kane for Sergachev, Mountour or Juolevi and not think twice. I would prefer someone already in the NHL but if we are talking prospects.

I'd likely pull the trigger too but I'd hesitate a bit. More so because I'm pissed we are trading a roster player for serg or a guy like Chychrun when we could've had him for free. Nylander is nice and all but is redundant given the steps forward taken by bailey, baptiste and carrier with fasching as a wildcard still and seemingly hitting on asplund (who is a center sure but still a middle six forward).

Looking at it in hindsite if we could have a young dman like that for Kane and have a young dman like that already in system over nylander it stings.

Then again nylander could just as likely light the world on fire next year and make me eat those words so...