NFL: 2017 NFL Training Camps thread

[Carolinas Identity*]

Can we bring David Garrard back?

 

[Voight]

I think you have to. Henne isn't good either and clearly isn't the future. He' s a guy you go to in an emergency last ditch effort to save the season.

 

[Bonzai12]

Agree with one of Brian Grieses comments a week or two ago - these guys who run spread offenses and do not huddle/take the ball from center should never be first rounders.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Agree with one of Brian Grieses comments a week or two ago - these guys who run spread offenses and do not huddle/take the ball from center should never be first rounders.

That's ******** but not surprising.

 

[m9]

Agree with one of Brian Grieses comments a week or two ago - these guys who run spread offenses and do not huddle/take the ball from center should never be first rounders.

No thanks. I'll take a guy with projectable traits and teach him those things.

 

[Avs_19]

I really thought Bortles was done as the starter after his performance last week. Marrone saying they were opening it up and wanting someone to be a leader of the offense only reinforced that thought. I can't believe they made the decision to go with him again just a week later.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

No thanks. I'll take a guy with projectable traits and teach him those things.

Winner. Cam Newton shouldn't have been a 1st round pick. Now Air Raid QB's should definitely have a buyer beware tag but the NFL has adopted so many spread concepts that its not a huge jump. Football isn't that complex. The hardest thing for rookies is verbiage.

 

[GKJ]

Everybody in Jacksonville are dead men walking anyways. There will be a new regime in there next year.

Winner. Cam Newton shouldn't have been a 1st round pick. Now Air Raid QB's should definitely have a buyer beware tag but the NFL has adopted so many spread concepts that its not a huge jump. Football isn't that complex. The hardest thing for rookies is verbiage.

In 2017, I'd rather teach a QB who has the skills but needs the toolbox to settle into an NFL offense than have to develop the skills a QB may not end up having just because he will pick up the offense faster.

 

[Bonzai12]

No thanks. I'll take a guy with projectable traits and teach him those things.

Teach those things to Paxton Lynch. Please.

You guys make an assumption that the QB can actually LEARN. Big leap for some. Their college coaches and OC's dumb down the game to take advantage of their physical traits.

College play calling is just so sophisticated.

 

[m9]

Teach those things to Paxton Lynch. Please.

You guys make an assumption that the QB can actually LEARN. Big leap for some. Their college coaches and OC's dumb down the game to take advantage of their physical traits.

But you are assuming Lynch would be a success if not for the system he came from.. and I don't agree with that.

The guys that can't learn aren't going to make it regardless of what system they came from. You need to scout and draft properly to avoid those guys.

It's an additional thing for a QB to learn. Obviously you would rather see them in an NFL style offense so that you can projects them easier, but you don't not draft a guy because of that.

 

[Bonzai12]

Lynch is coming from a system where he didn't need to go through multiple reads, no huddles, and no audibles at the line. All of those things are required at the next level.

I'll admit - some guys are able to pick that up and adapt. Wentz has seemingly been able to do it.

I'm not saying those "system" guys can't make it. I'm saying they should be downgraded due to doubts that they can overcome it.

It definitely is hard to gauge that in the 2-3 months of scouting that these teams can do.

Paxton has the physical tools. There's a lot of dudes that have the physical tools. But for a QB the mental game is almost 1/2-3/4 of it.

 

[GKJ]

Teach those things to Paxton Lynch. Please.

You guys make an assumption that the QB can actually LEARN. Big leap for some. Their college coaches and OC's dumb down the game to take advantage of their physical traits.

Well, that is true, they have to be able to learn. The point is it's earlier to learn the mental than develop the physical. If they don't have the mental, then they're hopeless regardless. But that's why you have your own coaches.


And a 1st round pick in Year 2, he should definitely be playing. Maybe he just sucks. Or the coaches suck. Or both.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Teach those things to Paxton Lynch. Please.

You guys make an assumption that the QB can actually LEARN. Big leap for some. Their college coaches and OC's dumb down the game to take advantage of their physical traits.

College play calling is just so sophisticated.

M9 is correct. Paxton Lynch has slow eyes. He doesn't pick up coverages quickly. Playing in a different system doesn't change that. College offenses are streamlined because you have huge rosters and very little time to install. During the season they are only allowed 20 hours of contact a week.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Lynch is coming from a system where he didn't need to go through multiple reads, no huddles, and no audibles at the line. All of those things are required at the next level.

I'll admit - some guys are able to pick that up and adapt. Wentz has seemingly been able to do it.

I'm not saying those "system" guys can't make it. I'm saying they should be downgraded due to doubts that they can overcome it.

It definitely is hard to gauge that in the 2-3 months of scouting that these teams can do.

Paxton has the physical tools. There's a lot of dudes that have the physical tools. But for a QB the mental game is almost 1/2-3/4 of it.

You should at least use a QB that doesn't suck. Like Mariota.

 

[GKJ]

Wentz also had the experience completely running his own offense at NDSU. There wasn't any dumbing down of the system there. The big jump in competition was why there were questions about him starting in Week 1.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Wentz also had the experience completely running his own offense at NDSU. There wasn't any dumbing down of the system there. The big jump in competition was why there were questions about him starting in Week 1.

That system wasn't complex. The run game was but the passing schematics were not. A lot of basic route combos and pretty static but he was in a huddle! Wentz's issues are bad feet. They are either stuck in mud or happy. As a QB, you need to always be in a throwing position. His footwork is why his accuracy is pretty scattered. He doesn't have an arm like Cam or Stafford to overcome it.

 

[Bonzai12]

M9 is correct. Paxton Lynch has slow eyes. He doesn't pick up coverages quickly. Playing in a different system doesn't change that. College offenses are streamlined because you have huge rosters and very little time to install. During the season they are only allowed 20 hours of contact a week.

Slow eyes - I've heard it all.

You definitely are correct that college offenses are streamlined. And making the jump from a streamlined offense to a sophisticated one - it's a jump. The more "dumbed" down the offense it is, the greater leap of faith for the player to make it in the NFL.

Mariota has definitely made the jump. He's in that group with Wentz. As I stated before, not saying guys can't do it. But simply saying "the guy has the physical tools so we can just teach him the mental part". - that's a pretty huge assumption that doesn't always have merit.

I'll also say - there's some guys historically that have had exceptional mental game and they've been able to bring their physical game to an acceptable level in order to have a successful (4-8 year) NFL career. Not stars, but made it.

Being a QB in this league isn't all about physical tools.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Mariota>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wentz. Wentz was bad. He didn't get much attention because Goff was worse. Neither guy would inspire me with much hope if I were fans of their teams. I say that as a guy who believed Goff would transition but I was wrong.

 

[m9]

Slow eyes - I've heard it all.

You definitely are correct that college offenses are streamlined. And making the jump from a streamlined offense to a sophisticated one - it's a jump. The more "dumbed" down the offense it is, the greater leap of faith for the player to make it in the NFL.

Mariota has definitely made the jump. He's in that group with Wentz. As I stated before, not saying guys can't do it. But simply saying "the guy has the physical tools so we can just teach him the mental part". - that's a pretty huge assumption that doesn't always have merit.

I'll also say - there's some guys historically that have had exceptional mental game and they've been able to bring their physical game to an acceptable level in order to have a successful (4-8 year) NFL career. Not stars, but made it.

Being a QB in this league isn't all about physical tools.

There is a difference between something teachable (changing scheme, etc) and a trait like decision-making. Classifying it as physical and mental is simplifying it too much.

This is why I don't take pre-draft QB projections too seriously on a message board.. including my own. We don't know the whole story and have a major blind spot because we don't get to interview QBs and get inside of their head. Things like the Jon Gruden draft thing certainly helps.

And the term "slow eyes" isn't one you like, but if someone said that he's slow going through his progressions or slow reading the field you would be fine with it? It's the same thing.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

There are certain thresholds you'd like to see. Lynch was always a boom/bust prospect.

 

[Scott Stevens]

Can we bring David Garrard back?

Is Byron Leftwich, David Garrard, Quinn Gray the only triple brotha QB depth chart in NFL history?

 

[GKJ]

The biggest jump in development typically comes between years 1 and 2 for quarterbacks. If Wentz is real, I think we'll know, he definitely has the talent around him this year after an acceptable rookie season. If Lynch is real, he should be the starter right now.

 

[BostonBob]

Crap - looks like the Dallas Defense is taking another big hit.


from cbssports.com:

The Dallas Cowboys defense is not off to a good start to the 2017 season. Dallas lost several players from last year's unit during free agency (Barry Church, J.J. Wilcox, Brandon Carr, Morris Claiborne, Terrell McClain) and saw several players (David Irving, Damontre Moore, possibly Damien Wilson and Nolan Carroll) get suspended for various reasons throughout the offseason.

Now, in their penultimate preseason tuneup, the Cowboys saw starting middle linebacker Anthony Hitchens go down with what appears to be a serious and possibly season-ending knee injury.




According to a report from NFL Network, the Cowboys believe Hitchens tore his ACL.







Full story here: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...y-hitchens-tore-his-acl-will-miss-the-season/

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Kizer named Browns starting QB....

 

[spintheblackcircle]