Salary Cap: 2017-18 Roster Building Thread VI | Contract/FA charts in Post #1 | CAP SET at $75M

[Empoleon8771]

There are a ton of issues with trading Kessel, but I think these are the 3 most obvious:

1. The Penguins have won 2 cups in a row with Kessel playing a huge role in both. Kessel's in a phenomenal situation here, where he can continue to win and not be put in the spotlight. The criticisms of his play are muffled a lot from him not being in the spotlight. Why would he say yes to any sort of trade on a team on his NTC, plus why wouldn't he construct his NTC so that he can't be traded? This is such a good situation for Kessel that I flat out don't think he'd allow a trade.
2. Kessel obviously isn't expendable on this team yet, at least not until Sprong makes the jump into the NHL. If you trade Kessel before Sprong does that, who are you going to replace Kessel with? There isn't another RH scoring winger in the organization outside of Kessel.
3. What kind of return can you get for Kessel where you can justify trading him. Let's say a Toronto situation happens with Kessel, where you happen to find a team that isn't on his NTC and would trade for him. What possible return could the Penguins pull off that actually makes them a better team? Free agency sucks this year and the Pens don't have that many tradeable assets, so it has to be Kessel for something that helps the Penguins win now.

I could buy them wanting to trade Kessel because of possible issues with the coaching staff, plus concerns with how his game will age into his 30s. But for the reasons above, I really doubt the Penguins would be able to pull it off, nor would they really pursue the option that much.

 

[Rectify]

I am not demanding Kessel be traded by any means for spite, but his value is probably at its highest now. I don't see him aging well.

Kessel is going to re-write the book on aging well. He is completely non-physical, relies on his shot, plays a perimeter game and loves hotdogs. The entire 'he won't age well' mantra is so over used it has almost completely lost its meaning.

Kessel has even lost a step since his Toronto days and is still great.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

1. They aren't trading kessel. Even if they want to right now theyd wait. He just won two cups his first two years here. What message does that send to players around the league? Fa's, etc.

2. They'll keep Hornqvist. Where players slot in the lineup doesn't really matter on this team. We move guys up and down more than ive ever seen another team do. So the whole top6/bottom 6 doesn't matter here. He's way too valuable to the team come playoff time for them to get rid of. After this year is up, I see them extending him which they should.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Sorry Jags. Well, maybe only partially sorry . . .

Look, I dismissed it out of hand 10 days ago, but now the media this week with the seed planting with no push back from the club. How many times have we seen this play out?

If Bobby Mac starts talking about, I will give it credence. Actually, I will be sickened because it means it's true.

Otherwise, let's go Phil, let's go Pens and let's go Filip Chytil!

 

[KIRK]

When we traded for him, I always thought of him as an "over the top piece" and not part of the core. 30 could be rough on him if he doesn't take fitness seriously and his legs go. He could turn into Heatley.
But maybe the guy is addicted to winning and we ride him for a couple more years.

Oh, I'm sure we can.

But, as Peat noted, his value is as high as it's going to get right now. So, do you-- and this really was a perfect word from him-- 'toy' with the idea and see what you can get now instead of scrambling in 2-3 years when that only 8 teams allowed list may make it all but impossible to move him?

I'll say this again . . . IF you're going to do it, then it can't be public. You can't go to Phil to ask him to waive, because that becomes a **** show. You have to find a dance partner on his list, and not a whiff that it's being done for real gets out there UNTIL IT IS DONE.

That is why I find this media 'seed planting' interesting. Almost like if JR did more than toyed with it and actually moved Phil now, the seeds have been planted . . . 'well, they loved Phil and really appreciate how much he meant to the two cup wins, but Phil can be a surly guy, and he can drive the coaches and his teammates nuts on the ice, and JR just got an offer he couldn't refuse'. A little easier to tell that story IF the media spends a week planting seeds as opposed to it totally coming out of nowhere for everyone.

 

[wheelz87]

I *could* buy the Kessel rumors if we weren't two time champs... but we are.

Kessel isn't going anywhere.

 

[PensPlz]

I don't get a Kessel trade. Only team that would want him would be a contender for this year, and what we would get back? Nothing to help us win and three-peat.

If it would be to clear out cap, then for who? Shattenkirk? Ha.

 

[ColePens]

Are there ANY substantial actual rumors for kessel other than Mark freaking Madden? If not - let's move on. Sources or gtfo at this point in the game.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If by toy with the idea, you mean do what we did with Calgary and Fleury last draft, then OK let's toy.

If somebody is willing to give us a top-5 pick and something else for Phil, cool.

Otherwise, there is zero need to do this.

 

[ColePens]

1st on the Pens in points in the playoffs last year. 3rd this year. Secondary scoring we desperately needed outside 87/71. 2 time cup champ in 2 years. Come onnnn. Let it go.

 

[Nakawick]

Kessel is going to re-write the book on aging well. He is completely non-physical, relies on his shot, plays a perimeter game and loves hotdogs. The entire 'he won't age well' mantra is so over used it has almost completely lost its meaning.

Kessel has even lost a step since his Toronto days and is still great.

Well, he does strike me as an against the grain type of guy, but if he slows down too much,,,,,,,, we will see a big dip in his production.

 

[SEALBound]

Starting to think we hold pat and go after some free agents.

 

[Peat]

It was Nakawick that pointed out his value is at his highest.

However, I'd add that the value for Toronto wasn't fantastic, happy as they are with their timely tank and shrewd use of acquisitions. And part of the reason for that is, iirc, it was us or no one. We were the only team with the cap to do it.

Thanks to the expansion draft, teams are a bit more cap light than before, and FA holds little interest other than Radulov. Do you think this is an opportunity you will never see again?

Also... how many of us have called for the Pens to be ruthless going forwards? Losing a great guy like Phil after back to back cups sucks, but if we want ruthless, then this would be it.

*shrugs* I'm content to trust Rutherford here... and expect nothing.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Galchenyuk's agent is Pat Brisson, which is interesting and perhaps a reason why we're linked to him.

Anyway, rumor is Brisson is talking extension with the Habs now. Sign and trade, to facilitate, or mending fences with Mtl?

 

[KIRK]

Are there ANY substantial actual rumors for kessel other than Mark freaking Madden? If not - let's move on. Sources or gtfo at this point in the game.

No, but I guarantee you IF it happens this summer, there won't be a source . . . this isn't the type of **** JR will let out there UNTIL it's done, and I think you know that. You also know, as a longtime observer of how this team operates from a PR perspective, the team wouldn't let multiple Pittsburgh outlets talk about this without pushback unless they had a reason. I personally think it's because JR is toying with the idea. How seriously? Who knows? If, as is most likely, nothing happens, then it's easy to dismiss the idle chatter. If something actually happened, then the groundwork is done for the PR machine.

 

[Empoleon8771]

To be honest, I kinda want to see the Penguins trade for Kane just because I think a huge section of this fanbase would riot

At this point, I'd take anything. Trade Pouliot for Girgensons, trade for Collin Miller, just do something.

No, but I guarantee you IF it happens this summer, there won't be a source . . . this isn't the type of **** JR will let out there UNTIL it's done, and I think you know that. You also know, as a longtime observer of how this team operates from a PR perspective, the team wouldn't let multiple Pittsburgh outlets talk about this without pushback unless they had a reason. I personally think it's because JR is toying with the idea. How seriously? Who knows? If, as is most likely, nothing happens, then it's easy to dismiss the idle chatter. If something actually happened, then the groundwork is done for the PR machine.

My only question is what team would give up a good enough return where the Penguins could justify moving Kessel? Like I just don't see it. JR can toy with the idea, but if he goes shopping and the best offer is a 1st round pick and B prospect from Minnesota, that doesn't really accomplish all that much. Cap space really isn't a valued commodity in a Kessel trade, because they already have cap space.

 

[KIRK]

1st on the Pens in points in the playoffs last year. 3rd this year. Secondary scoring we desperately needed outside 87/71. 2 time cup champ in 2 years. Come onnnn. Let it go.

 

[Brandinho]

Kessel is going to re-write the book on aging well. He is completely non-physical, relies on his shot, plays a perimeter game and loves hotdogs. The entire 'he won't age well' mantra is so over used it has almost completely lost its meaning.

Kessel has even lost a step since his Toronto days and is still great.

Well said, Astronautalis. Kessel would have to lose more than just a step to really fall off due to age. Everything points to him continuing to be effective into his 30s.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Bleep that. I will be really pisssssed if this happens.

Agreed.

I'll be Dan Bylsma choking away years of Sid and Geno levels of pissed off.

 

[66-30-33]

To be honest, I kinda want to see the Penguins trade for Kane just because I think a huge section of this fanbase would riot

At this point, I'd take anything. Trade Pouliot for Girgensons, trade for Collin Miller, just do something.



My only question is what team would give up a good enough return where the Penguins could justify moving Kessel? Like I just don't see it. JR can toy with the idea, but if he goes shopping and the best offer is a 1st round pick and B prospect from Minnesota, that doesn't really accomplish all that much. Cap space really isn't a valued commodity in a Kessel trade, because they already have cap space.

I only want to do something if it helps this team in the speed/skill department for a D or a winger. For the C i'd want a big name if we could. Crosby, Malkin, Sundqvist, Rowney is like 10 steps back.

 

[KIRK]

If by toy with the idea, you mean do what we did with Calgary and Fleury last draft, then OK let's toy.

If somebody is willing to give us a top-5 pick and something else for Phil, cool.

Otherwise, there is zero need to do this.

Fleury was never going to accept a trade to Calgary.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I only want to do something if it helps this team in the speed/skill department for a D or a winger. For the C i'd want a big name if we could. Crosby, Malkin, Sundqvist, Rowney is like 10 steps back.

But that wasn't really my point. My point isn't what you'd want back in a Kessel trade, my point was that what team will be giving up something that helps the Penguins now in a Kessel trade? The last time Kessel got traded, there was 1 team in on him. He constructed his NTC to essentially make it a full NTC, with only leaving teams at the cap as teams he wouldn't block a trade to. I can't see him changing that now. It doesn't matter what you'd want back for Kessel, my thing was talking about what team would even trade for Kessel?

 

[CertifiedLurker]

It was Nakawick that pointed out his value is at his highest.

However, I'd add that the value for Toronto wasn't fantastic, happy as they are with their timely tank and shrewd use of acquisitions. And part of the reason for that is, iirc, it was us or no one. We were the only team with the cap to do it.

Thanks to the expansion draft, teams are a bit more cap light than before, and FA holds little interest other than Radulov. Do you think this is an opportunity you will never see again?

Also... how many of us have called for the Pens to be ruthless going forwards? Losing a great guy like Phil after back to back cups sucks, but if we want ruthless, then this would be it.

*shrugs* I'm content to trust Rutherford here... and expect nothing.

It's one thing to want ruthlessness if you aren't having success or struggling, as they were, but they haven't even lost a flipping series yet since Kessel got here, why the eff would you want change for the sake of change. Which is what that would be tantamount to considering the results so far. It's not even like he's been a passenger in the two wins, he's been key. The only move that makes sense is to wait until they actually encounter a problem, and then work to fix it, not fix non-existent issues that may or may not happen. JR seems like a pragmatic dude, if it stops working then I expect changes.

 

[Rectify]

To be honest, I kinda want to see the Penguins trade for Kane just because I think a huge section of this fanbase would riot

It won't be well received, that's for sure. Patience. Coming off of back to back Stanley Cups I would rather they just stand pat right now. At least until July 1. Things are getting crazy right now and we have enough in-house maintence to keep us busy.

Well said, Astronautalis. Kessel would have to lose more than just a step to really fall off due to age. Everything points to him continuing to be effective into his 30s.

*tips hat*

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Are there ANY substantial actual rumors for kessel other than Mark freaking Madden? If not - let's move on. Sources or gtfo at this point in the game.

I want to know what media, other than Madden, are spreading this.