2017-18 EFL Carabao Cup

[Evilo]

And I'll ask again..... What's the point of bragging you're in a losing CL spot when you don't do anything in your CL seasons?

 

[Baxterman]

And I'll ask again..... What's the point of bragging you're in a losing CL spot when you don't do anything in your CL seasons?

Who is bragging?

And does this mean Spurs should just close up shop because they aren't as good as RM, Barcelona and Juventus?

This year they have beat Dortmund and drew RM at home. They look poised to make it through to the next round, so is this don't do anything in CL seasons based on last year?

 

[Baxterman]

No, crazy is to think that CL+Cup is less than CL period.
And you only care about attractivity. What I'm telling you is that players WANT to win.
If I'm a player looking at signing with Spurs or other big EPL teams right now, my question would be : who are the losers?
Easy answer : the guys who win nothing. Who never won anything for years and don't look poised to win anything for years.

Saying 2nd is automatically being better than the 4th+Cup team is also highly arguable.

Relegation is obviously a failure but any european trophy win is more important than any trophy except league title and even then CL title is much more important. That's how players think too.
16th+EL is MUCH better than 2nd.
You get a CL qualification AND a major trophy.

Ok so you think Carabao Cup is a major trophy? Again how far done the list that it go with trophies? Is any trophy great or is there a cut-off at some point? For example, is winning the International Champions Cup a big deal does that trump 2nd? or how about the Emirates Cup? Can Arsenal already chalk up a successful year due to that win?

You have done a great job of letting everybody know how finishing 2nd is for losers and if you are happy that your team finished in 2nd you are a loser but not really addressed any of my questions without moving the goalposts.

And perhaps I am misreading what you said but you are saying that players will want to sign with Spurs more if they have a Carabao Cup win and lower finish in the league? You think the Carabao Cup is a big enough deal to players that it affects where they sign?

 

[Evilo]

Who is bragging?

And does this mean Spurs should just close up shop because they aren't as good as RM, Barcelona and Juventus?

This year they have beat Dortmund and drew RM at home. They look poised to make it through to the next round, so is this don't do anything in CL seasons based on last year?

Last year?

Who is bragging?

And does this mean Spurs should just close up shop because they aren't as good as RM, Barcelona and Juventus?

This year they have beat Dortmund and drew RM at home. They look poised to make it through to the next round, so is this don't do anything in CL seasons based on last year?

Seriously?
Look at Spurs history for the last 10 years.
Of course Spurs would have a tough time winning the CL. But at least making it past the first round would be new. And then win a single trophy would be great.
Spurs will be a losers club until they show they can win a trophy. If their only bragging rights are 2nd place in the EPL, it's once again losers mentality.

 

[Evilo]

Ok so you think Carabao Cup is a major trophy? Again how far done the list that it go with trophies? Is any trophy great or is there a cut-off at some point? For example, is winning the International Champions Cup a big deal does that trump 2nd? or how about the Emirates Cup? Can Arsenal already chalk up a successful year due to that win?

You have done a great job of letting everybody know how finishing 2nd is for losers and if you are happy that your team finished in 2nd you are a loser but not really addressed any of my questions without moving the goalposts.

And perhaps I am misreading what you said but you are saying that players will want to sign with Spurs more if they have a Carabao Cup win and lower finish in the league? You think the Carabao Cup is a big enough deal to players that it affects where they sign?

Where did I say it was a major trophy? I ACTUALLY WROTE IT WAS THE LOWEST TROPHY OUTSIDE THE FRIENDLIES.
Got it?

What is it you don't understand in my post? Where did I say friendlies were important? And I'M the one moving the goalposts? Seriously?
I've adressed your point. You just refuse to see it.
Finishing 2nd has only one positive : qualifying for the CL.
Finishing 4th with a Cup win has two positives : a trophy AND qualifying for the CL.

And yes I'm sure players would hesitate less to sign with Spurs than say Arsenal if they can both finish in the top 4 AND win trophies, something Arsenal has done for years.
There's no wonder guys like Ozil or Sanchez joined Arsenal and not Spurs. Guys of their pedigree want to win. Clearly they were disappointed with Arsenal, but they won something, contrary to Spurs.
And in fact, they were more competitive in the CL.

Being happy with finishing 2nd and nothing else is amazing to me. Especially since, to be honest, Spurs have finished 2nd once in 5 years or so?

 

[Evilo]

Heck, if Spurs want to take the next step, they need to get rid of this mindset. They have wow nothing since ages. A league Cup is a small start, but it's a start.
When you don't win anything, you can't have that attitude. And in fact, as I pointed out, the big teams don't have that mindset : they try to win everything.
Weird huh? That's called winners mentality.

 

[Baxterman]

Last year?

Seriously?
Look at Spurs history for the last 10 years.
Of course Spurs would have a tough time winning the CL. But at least making it past the first round would be new. And then win a single trophy would be great.

They made it to the QF the last time they were in CL before last season so no it wouldn't really be all that new.

Spurs will be a losers club until they show they can win a trophy. If their only bragging rights are 2nd place in the EPL, it's once again losers menality.

So still no answers?

I guess I don't really see your point here outside of pointing out that Spurs are not one of the big European clubs? I mean great for you. I don't really see the joy or point of that but if you do I guess great for you.

 

[phisherman]

Spurs fans acting smug at finishing 2nd place and ignoring that everyone is calling out on their logic that CL place>CL place+trophy.

I bet the same Spurs fans mocked Arsenal during their trophyless run while making the CL every year.

 

[Evilo]

No answer?
You're the only one without an answer here.
You have zero argument, except your own opinion.
You still can't tell me why Barca, Real, Bayern, PSG or Juventus ALWAYS try to win their domestic Cup(s).
Why?
Spurs are soo good, they don't even try.

The only argument you tried to give was to say Spurs would be more attractive finishing 2nd than 4th+Cup. Something I've already showed you not to be true using Arsenal as an example.

And please trying to defend Spurs' european resume over the last 5 years is hilarious.
Lose in the EL, lost in the CL

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I don't see how the Carabao cup can have any impact on making players stay or attracting new players. Zilch. Diddly-squat.

Whilst I find it quite simple to understand that achieving a second place in the PL over a fourth place shows that a team is much closer to winning one of the largest titles of them all. That is surely more attractive.

Would anybody consider Juande Ramos a better coach than Poch because he won the league cup?

 

[Evilo]

Woud you consider Ranieri as a better coach than Mourinho or Wenger?

 

[Evilo]

Tottenham hasn't done better than QF in a european competition since 1982. That includes 6 EL campaigns, 2 CL campaigns, 6 UEFA Cups campaigns, and 2 Cup winners' Cup campaigns.
And yet some Spurs fans here are acting as if Europa League wins are nothing

 

[Baxterman]

No answer?
You're the only one without an answer here.
You have zero argument, except your own opinion.
You still can't tell me why Barca, Real, Bayern, PSG or Juventus ALWAYS try to win their domestic Cup(s).
Why?
Spurs are soo good, they don't even try.

The only argument you tried to give was to say Spurs would be more attractive finishing 2nd than 4th+Cup. Something I've already showed you not to be true using Arsenal as an example.

And please trying to defend Spurs' european resume over the last 5 years is hilarious.
Lose in the EL, lost in the CL

Spurs did try to win the FA Cup. They lost in a very good game against an excellent Chelsea side last season in the SF and are still alive this year. On what basis are you trying to argue that they don't try to win their domestic cup?

This is what I mean by moving the goalposts. We talking Carabao Cup and you keep bringing in other Trophies that are way more meaningful than the Carabao Cup.

 

[Baxterman]

Heck, if Spurs want to take the next step, they need to get rid of this mindset. They have wow nothing since ages. A league Cup is a small start, but it's a start.
When you don't win anything, you can't have that attitude. And in fact, as I pointed out, the big teams don't have that mindset : they try to win everything.
Weird huh? That's called winners mentality.

The big clubs in England all put out sub-par rosters in Carabao Cup they aren't trying to do much to win it at all.

Man City needed penalties to win at home to a Championship sqaud.

The big teams definitely have the same mindset of Spurs when it comes to the Caraboa Cup

 

[Evilo]

Huh
Who wrote this? : "I never really thought about Cups but after last year and people claiming that United and Arsenal had better seasons because they won "trophies" that's when I realized how crazy it is.

For me, there is no way that United had a better season than Spurs last year. If that was a Spurs season I would be disappointed. It is somewhat mitigated by the fact that Europa league now has a CL spot but really to me the Spurs had a much better season."

Who's moving the goalposts again?

 

[Evilo]

The big clubs in England all put out sub-par rosters in Carabao Cup they aren't trying to do much to win it at all.

Man City needed penalties to win at home to a Championship sqaud.

The big teams definitely have the same mindset of Spurs when it comes to the Caraboa Cup

Really? Seems to me Guardolia put an A team and wasn't happy with the close win.
Weird. Must be that winning mentality some Spurs have no idea about.

 

[phisherman]

Spurs put out a strong team as well yesterday.

 

[Evilo]

But managed to lose to a team that was out of it. Players showed the losing mentality and I'm guessing Poch as well.

 

[Baxterman]

Really? Seems to me Guardolia put an A team and wasn't happy with the close win.
Weird. Must be that winning mentality some Spurs have no idea about.

A team?

His backline included Mangala-Adaraibyo-Zinchenko. They have a total of 1 EPL/Champions league appearances and 0 starts. The other defender Danilo has 6 appearances in EPL/Champions league.

Ederson didn't play. KDB on the bench, Aguero on the bench, Yaya Toure making his 3rd appearance this year in the starting line-up.

That wasn't close to an A team and was the same resting guys and get by with the least you can roster that Tottenham had.

 

[Baxterman]

Huh
Who wrote this? : "I never really thought about Cups but after last year and people claiming that United and Arsenal had better seasons because they won "trophies" that's when I realized how crazy it is.

For me, there is no way that United had a better season than Spurs last year. If that was a Spurs season I would be disappointed. It is somewhat mitigated by the fact that Europa league now has a CL spot but really to me the Spurs had a much better season."

Who's moving the goalposts again?

How is that moving the goalposts?

That is a response to a different poster and wasn't in regards to our discussion.

 

[Baxterman]

But managed to lose to a team that was out of it. Players showed the losing mentality and I'm guessing Poch as well.

Explain how they showed a"losing" mentality?

Just because they lost a game in which a West ham in this very thread said was as good as he has seen West Ham play?

 

[Evilo]

Spurs european record is bad compared to every EPL team that finished top 4. Heck, even Leicester did better than them last year.
City certainly had a competitive team. Of course, their team is deep, but they tried to win and if you think Guardiola didn't want to, then we won't ever see things the same way.

 

[Evilo]

Explain how they showed a"losing" mentality?

Just because they lost a game in which a West ham in this very thread said was as good as he has seen West Ham play?

Saying it doesn't matter is a losing mentality. Losing at home to a terrible team without caring about it is losers mentality.

How is that moving the goalposts?

That is a response to a different poster and wasn't in regards to our discussion.​

You say I'm talking about different Cups, and so are you.
I've said CL+Cup all along. I don't care which and frankly, the difference between the two is nominal.
Saying you wouldn't trade Spurs' last season for United's is crazy.
EL is significant. CL qualification was met by both teams in fact.

And since your only point is attractivity, who do you think was more attractive this summer? Spurs, 2nd in the EPL or United, 5th (or 6th, can't remember?) + EL?
Surely, if I followed your logic, Spurs being SOOOOOO close to the title means they are much more attractive, right? Right?

Again, big teams try to win everything, and their fans are never happy with a loss, regardless of the importance of the trophy.​

 

[Evilo]

BTW, City started Gundogan, Toure, Sterling, Bernardo Silva, Jesus, Aguero and subbed in KDB, Sane, Stones and Walker.
Clearly the academy players

 

[Baxterman]

Spurs european record is bad compared to every EPL team that finished top 4. Heck, even Leicester did better than them last year.
City certainly had a competitive team. Of course, their team is deep, but they tried to win and if you think Guardiola didn't want to, then we won't ever see things the same way.

I think he wanted to as badly as Poch did.

If he wanted to win that game badly then he would have put in his best line-up like he does in EPL/Champions League.

Ok so your argument is that Spurs have done worse than bigger clubs in Europe and in one CL than Leicester who had an easier draw. Sure I agree with that big deal.

 

[Baxterman]

You say I'm talking about different Cups, and so are you.
I've said CL+Cup all along. I don't care which and frankly, the difference between the two is nominal.
Saying you wouldn't trade Spurs' last season for United's is crazy.
EL is significant. CL qualification was met by both teams in fact.

And since your only point is attractivity, who do you think was more attractive this summer? Spurs, 2nd in the EPL or United, 5th (or 6th, can't remember?) + EL?
Surely, if I followed your logic, Spurs being SOOOOOO close to the title means they are much more attractive, right? Right?

Again, big teams try to win everything, and their fans are never happy with a loss, regardless of the importance of the trophy.​

​

I would say United and their bank account/global brand could be more attractive but that is because of United not because of their EL finish.

I would say that Spurs in 2nd are more attractive than Spurs in 6th and a EL trophy because unlike United, Spurs do not have the financial might to fix the holes in a 6th place team.