2017-18 Around the League

[El Travo]

Oh I don't know...let me think...

1. Three work stoppages have taken place under his watch, one of which wiped out an entire season.
2. That huge work stoppage led to a cap system that, it could be argued, isn't as effective as cap systems in other leagues (teams have found ways to circumvent it in a number of ways already).
3. A fickle, arbitrary, and ineffective disciplinary system that has done nothing to clean up the game (the PA shares responsibility in this).
4. Lying through his teeth about the NHL's concussion problem.
5. Bullying and strongarming municipal governments into coughing up hundreds of millions to subsidize arenas. Calgary finally called him on his and the Flames' bluff.
6. Pooh-poohing the garbage going on in Ottawa instead of taking necessary action (and don't kid yourself, he could do so and do so very quietly).

I could go on but those are just a few reasons he doesn't deserve to get in. Ever. And don't give me this "he grew the game" bull****. Anyone could have done what he did, and arguably much better than he did.

There are bigger villains in professional hockey to be sure, and worse people already in the Hall of Fame (Bobby Hull, GTFO), but I don't buy for a second that this doofus should be anywhere NEAR the Hall of Fame.

Your issues seem to be more with the owners than anything. But hey, keep the meme hate going for Bettman because it's the easy and trendy thing to do.

Seriously, when the guy gets booed as he's talking about the Humboldt tragedy you know the hate has reached meme status.

 

[Pokecheque]

A lot of the things you listed are at the behest of his employers--the NHL Owners.

Okay, but how does being a feckless water-carrier for old farts in suits strengthen his case to be immortalized in Toronto?

 

[dahrougem2]

Oh I don't know...let me think...

1. Three work stoppages have taken place under his watch, one of which wiped out an entire season.
2. That huge work stoppage led to a cap system that, it could be argued, isn't as effective as cap systems in other leagues (teams have found ways to circumvent it in a number of ways already).
3. A fickle, arbitrary, and ineffective disciplinary system that has done nothing to clean up the game (the PA shares responsibility in this).
4. Lying through his teeth about the NHL's concussion problem.
5. Bullying and strongarming municipal governments into coughing up hundreds of millions to subsidize arenas. Calgary finally called him on his and the Flames' bluff.
6. Pooh-poohing the garbage going on in Ottawa instead of taking necessary action (and don't kid yourself, he could do so and do so very quietly).

I could go on but those are just a few reasons he doesn't deserve to get in. Ever. And don't give me this "he grew the game" bull****. Anyone could have done what he did, and arguably much better than he did.

There are bigger villains in professional hockey to be sure, and worse people already in the Hall of Fame (Bobby Hull, GTFO), but I don't buy for a second that this doofus should be anywhere NEAR the Hall of Fame.

You realize the man works for the owners, right? The cap system has led to increased parity, which is what owners wanted. Maybe not all of them, but majority, especially those in small markets. Trying to get governments to subsidize arenas instead of having owners pay is what Bettman gets paid for, as is him not taking action against Eugene Melnyk. Technically, Melnyk hasn't done anything illegal, so why should Bettman take action? Melnyk is one of his employers.

 

[Pokecheque]

Your issues seem to be more with the owners than anything. But hey, keep the meme hate going for Bettman because it's the easy and trendy thing to do.

Seriously, when the guy gets booed as he's talking about the Humboldt tragedy you know the hate has reached meme status.

I'll say it again, how does being an accomplice to the real villain strengthen his case?

And f*** him doubly for that fiasco involving the Broncos at the draft. If he wanted to do it right he would've had someone else do it.

 

[El Travo]

Oh and it should be noted that they don't even wait for the rich white guy who did hardly anything to contribute to hockey to retire before inducting him, and wait SIXTY YEARS after the first player to break the color barrier made his debut before finally, begrudgingly voting him in amidst increasing pressure to do so. I guess they wanted him to put in decades of tireless work as an ambassador of the sport before he was "worthy."

Again, yay for Willie, but **** the so-called brain trust that makes these decisions. They somehow finally got it right and STILL managed to **** it up all at the same time.

This is where your opinion is no longer credible.

 

[UncleRisto]

Tell that to Rypien, Boogard, and Ewen. Bettman trying to sweep that under the rug is despicable and once the whole thing comes out he'll be even more hated than he is now.

Do I also tell that to every boxer, mixed martial artist, footballer, rugby player, soccer player, baseball player, professional wrestler, extreme sports athlete, and military veteran?

 

[Pokecheque]

You realize the man works for the owners, right? The cap system has led to increased parity, which is what owners wanted. Maybe not all of them, but majority, especially those in small markets. Trying to get governments to subsidize arenas instead of having owners pay is what Bettman gets paid for, as is him not taking action against Eugene Melnyk. Technically, Melnyk hasn't done anything illegal, so why should Bettman take action? Melnyk is one of his employers.

STOP WITH THESE "It's the owners fault" arguments! How in the f*** does this make him HOF worthy!?!? Just because he was an accomplice and not the main perpetrator? I'm not arguing to throw him in jail, just saying, don't make a damned bust of the guy and enshrine him.

And don't give me that "Melnyk hasn't done anything illegal" stuff either. Donald Sterling technically didn't do anything illegal when he was a racist shitbag, nor did Frank McCourt when he ran the Dodgers and their stadium into ruin. But NBA and MLB took very swift action and those guys were out very quickly. Don't tell me Bettman can't use his power and influence to get Melnyk out. He could, and could do so very easily, but won't. Bettman sure as hell took VERY swift action when someone tried to purchase/move his beloved Coyotes outta town.

Cannot believe so many people are defending this guy...I'm not villainizing the guy because it's "the cool" thing to do, I am because he is worthy of the title.

 

[Pokecheque]

This is where your opinion is no longer credible.

Good thing I don't care what you think.

 

[Pokecheque]

Do I also tell that to every boxer, mixed martial artist, footballer, rugby player, soccer player, baseball player, professional wrestler, extreme sports athlete, and military veteran?

Yes.

 

[dahrougem2]

STOP WITH THESE "It's the owners fault" arguments! How in the **** does this make him HOF worthy!?!? Just because he was an accomplice and not the main perpetrator? I'm not arguing to throw him in jail, just saying, don't make a damned bust of the guy and enshrine him.

And don't give me that "Melnyk hasn't done anything illegal" stuff either. Donald Sterling technically didn't do anything illegal when he was a racist ****bag, nor did Frank McCourt when he ran the Dodgers and their stadium into ruin. But NBA and MLB took very swift action and those guys were out very quickly. Don't tell me Bettman can't use his power and influence to get Melnyk out. He could, and could do so very easily, but won't. Bettman sure as hell took VERY swift action when someone tried to purchase/move his beloved Coyotes outta town.

Cannot believe so many people are defending this guy...I'm not villainizing the guy because it's "the cool" thing to do, I am because he is worthy of the title.

The NBA took swift action against Sterling because the players demanded it, and the Clippers players wouldn't play for Sterling anymore. You think the Senators players are going to boycott Melnyk? No, they're not.

Nobody is arguing him working for the owners makes him HoF worthy. But his tenure, his growth of the game, his ability to make the NHL first in Vegas, he's got merit for getting in.

 

[ASmileyFace]

Oh I don't know...let me think...

1. Three work stoppages have taken place under his watch, one of which wiped out an entire season.
2. That huge work stoppage led to a cap system that, it could be argued, isn't as effective as cap systems in other leagues (teams have found ways to circumvent it in a number of ways already).
3. A fickle, arbitrary, and ineffective disciplinary system that has done nothing to clean up the game (the PA shares responsibility in this).
4. Lying through his teeth about the NHL's concussion problem.
5. Bullying and strongarming municipal governments into coughing up hundreds of millions to subsidize arenas. Calgary finally called him on his and the Flames' bluff.
6. Pooh-poohing the garbage going on in Ottawa instead of taking necessary action (and don't kid yourself, he could do so and do so very quietly).

I could go on but those are just a few reasons he doesn't deserve to get in. Ever. And don't give me this "he grew the game" bull****. Anyone could have done what he did, and arguably much better than he did.

There are bigger villains in professional hockey to be sure, and worse people already in the Hall of Fame (Bobby Hull, GTFO), but I don't buy for a second that this doofus should be anywhere NEAR the Hall of Fame.

I get where you're coming from but I'm with RL on this one. Only points 3 and 4 are really on his shoulders completely, and I think history will look poorly at him in that light.

Either way him being inducted into the HoF is a bad look for the NHL IMO.

 

[UncleRisto]

Yes.

Sports related head trauma as a cause for debilitating brain injuries and dementia was first investigated in the 1950's and a surefire link between several professional sports has been established in the mainstream media for 5-10 years. Has anyone retired solely because of this surfacing? Everyone retire and don't be a millionaire until all professional sports develop their equipment and soccer players wear bike helmets.

Is Bettman sweeping it under the rug lawyerish and wrong, yes I believe it is. The only other option these leagues have though, is pouring money into research for equipment development. Should they do it? Absolutely they should. Will I not watch a sport in the meantime and everyone refuse to play? No, I believe I'll keep watching, and sport leagues keep running.

I don't mean to sound completely like I'm victim blaming with the NHL withholding information but if you didn't figure out that professionally competing in a sport, any sport, f***ing pole vault, isn't good for your health then...

 

[Pokecheque]

The NBA took swift action against Sterling because the players demanded it, and the Clippers players wouldn't play for Sterling anymore. You think the Senators players are going to boycott Melnyk? No, they're not.

Uh, you don't think they're doing so already? Andy has already expressed a desire to get out, Karlsson is most assuredly gone, and it's highly unlikely Duchene or Stone want to stay either. It may not be a full-on boycott but I guarantee you no notable free agent is putting that team on their list.

Nobody is arguing him working for the owners makes him HoF worthy. But his tenure, his growth of the game, his ability to make the NHL first in Vegas, he's got merit for getting in.

I disagree entirely...what did he do that was so instrumental other than not stand in the way? How does that make him worthy of enshrinement?

Again, I'm not saying he should be burned in effigy, I've already said there are far worse people already in the Hall. I'm just saying if we're gonna be so discerning about which players get in, why do we just shrug our shoulders when it comes to a guy who, IMO, did very little to earn the honor?

 

[RockLobster]

Okay, but how does being a feckless water-carrier for old farts in suits strengthen his case to be immortalized in Toronto?

I didn't say it did?

But all Commissioners of Pro Sports leagues are employed by the team owners in those leagues. So if the owners say "We want--no, need--a hard salary cap or this isn't sustainable. So get it by any means necessary" then he is doing what his employers want him to do. I mean let's be frank here--he didn't do anything with regard specifically to the Cap, that was unethical. He was as stubborn a negotiator as Fehr was/is.

Anyways, it's merely pointing out that you're blaming him for something that his employers wanted him to do, on several points.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong on him being in the HoF...though I guess in the end I'd say that his overall body of work would lend itself to being HoF worthy, given how much the league has grown under his watch as Commissioner, but his induction could have most definitely been held off until he had moved on from his position.

 

[Pokecheque]

Sports related head trauma as a cause for debilitating brain injuries and dementia was first investigated in the 1950's and a surefire link between several professional sports has been established in the mainstream media for 5-10 years. Has anyone retired solely because of this surfacing? Everyone retire and don't be a millionaire until all professional sports develop their equipment and soccer players wear bike helmets.

Is Bettman sweeping it under the rug lawyerish and wrong, yes I believe it is. The only other option these leagues have though, is pouring money into research for equipment development. Should they do it? Absolutely they should. Will I not watch a sport in the meantime and everyone refuse to play? No, I believe I'll keep watching, and sport leagues keep running.

Precisely, the owners and league staff of every major sport in America could pour millions into research and also pay for the care some former players desperately need. But they won't, and that's inexcusable. Will I continue to watch and root for my team? Yes. Will I continue to boo Bettman? Damned right I will.

 

[UncleRisto]

Precisely, the owners and league staff of every major sport in America could pour millions into research and also pay for the care some former players desperately need. But they won't, and that's inexcusable. Will I continue to watch and root for my team? Yes. Will I continue to boo Bettman? Damned right I will.

Okay that's fair, I agree with the fact that pouring money into research to minimize the risk needs to start. However, the NHL is currently in a legal dispute over this and it's a group of lawyers out there.

Care for former players is a tricky thing. Is someone caring for former boxers and pro wrestlers? No one's caring for me when I retire when my eyes are shot from 50 years of staring at a screen. I also wasn't a millionaire. I realize that these people didn't necessarily realize all the dangers of a contact sport, and I realize billions were made watching these people get head trauma, but it doesn't fall on just Bettman. In the end, all we can hope for is that work is started towards a resolution for these health risks once Bettman steps down.

 

[McMetal]

Do I also tell that to every boxer, mixed martial artist, footballer, rugby player, soccer player, baseball player, professional wrestler, extreme sports athlete, and military veteran?

That it's no big deal and the people who helped ruin their lives and cover up the truth are going to be venerated alongside Wayne Gretzky and Patrick Roy? I mean, you could, but what kind of person would say that?

You may not be able to take concussions out of the game, but denying that they're a problem and that they're ruining the lives of the people who work for you is just evil. If he would just acknowledge the danger and offer help to suffering players instead of deflections and denials I'd feel a lot better about him as a human being.

 

[UncleRisto]

That it's no big deal and the people who helped ruin their lives and cover up the truth are going to be venerated alongside Wayne Gretzky and Patrick Roy? I mean, you could, but what kind of person would say that?

You may not be able to take concussions out of the game, but denying that they're a problem and that they're ruining the lives of the people who work for you is just evil. If he would just acknowledge the danger and offer help to suffering players instead of deflections and denials I'd feel a lot better about him as a human being.

At this point in time, he can't do that. Whoever follows him might. He cannot.

 

[dahrougem2]

Uh, you don't think they're doing so already? Andy has already expressed a desire to get out, Karlsson is most assuredly gone, and it's highly unlikely Duchene or Stone want to stay either. It may not be a full-on boycott but I guarantee you no notable free agent is putting that team on their list.



I disagree entirely...what did he do that was so instrumental other than not stand in the way? How does that make him worthy of enshrinement?

Again, I'm not saying he should be burned in effigy, I've already said there are far worse people already in the Hall. I'm just saying if we're gonna be so discerning about which players get in, why do we just shrug our shoulders when it comes to a guy who, IMO, did very little to earn the honor?

Let's just agree to disagree on this.

 

[Pokecheque]

Let's just agree to disagree on this.

Fine with me. I think you could agree that MAYBE they could've waited until he wasn't commissioner anymore to do this.

 

[dahrougem2]

Fine with me. I think you could agree that MAYBE they could've waited until he wasn't commissioner anymore to do this.

This I can agree with

 

[McMetal]

At this point in time, he can't do that. Whoever follows him might. He cannot.

Are you saying that because his bosses won't let him? I mean, you would think a moral person would pound the table to get something changed, or even resign rather than pursue an immoral agenda.

"He was just following orders" is not an excuse that history has looked fondly on in the past.

 

[UncleRisto]

Are you saying that because his bosses won't let him? I mean, you would think a moral person would pound the table to get something changed, or even resign rather than pursue an immoral agenda.

"He was just following orders" is not an excuse that history has looked fondly on in the past.

It's almost all lawyers up there, isn't it? Gary is. I don't know if there's someone to pinpoint here but this lawsuit stuff has to be dealt with before anyone comes out and says anything like that. Now, it could be that they reach a resolution and then they address it, but before the league has a resolution it's happy with, no one is going to address it. Chances are they're taking the L here at some point, but they won't come out and readily admit it before then.

(BTW, the Nürnberg defense may not have worked for the Nazis trialed, but that shit is so real.)

 

[RockLobster]

Darren Dreger--never not a mouthpiece for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Darren Dreger--never not a mouthpiece for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Dreger has an incredible relationship with Brisson. So while I agree with you that he's been a mouthpiece for the Leafs for a very long time, he would never do anything that can cause any type of negativity with his relationship with Brisson. If I was a betting man, I'd say this "secondary source" is the mouth of Pat Brisson himself to up the ante of other teams. That's who Dreger is the biggest puppet for.