Prospect Info: 2016 Leafs Development Camp - July 4th-9th, 2016. Niagara Falls, ON

[Marlander93]

LOL. ...

Biggs, Ashton, Finn and so many others. Bad feet can not be corrected.

Pretty ignorant post.

 

[Menzinger]

LOL. ...

Biggs, Ashton, Finn and so many others. Bad feet can not be corrected.

I think It depends on the player and what their skating issue is.

Ie Tavares was a below average skater pre draft, after a lot of work he's now an average skater.

Some players are beyond saving/correcting though.

 

[diceman934]

Didn't tavares have bad feet?

Not at all, he had bad body mechanics and lacked strength in his stride. His agility and edge work along with transitional skating was fine. His skate recovery position was good as was his ankle extension.

Did you watch Finn at all? Slow transitions from inside edge to outside edge, both from forward to backwards skating as well as from backwards to forward. Poor ankle flexion and use of heels. Heavy feet is what it looks like....most scouts simply say that "he has bad feet" . When you combine the above with poor body mechanics you have a player who will never be able to skate effectively at the NHL level.

Do you remember watch Dion transition from forward to backwards and how his feet looked... he was a good skater with bad feet. here is an example of what I'm talking about. All his weight is on his heels as he has poor feet....this happen a lot. I wish I could find a example of a video that shows his feet when changing from forward to backwards.

All young kids should take figure skating when they are young and flexible so that they can learn to use skate properly. They are taught to use edges properly as well as to generate speed without taking their feet on the ground. So many other reasons but I do feel like writing a novel.

 

[diceman934]

Why, then, can footwork in every other sport be developed and improved?.. I'll wait.

What other sports are players wearing boots with a two edged butter knife attached to them?

Foot work can be worked on and improved....but a player with bad foot work is exposed in every sport that requires good foot work at the Elite level.

You will notice that Hunter drafted a lot of players the last two years and all but one is a good skater, why is that?

As well as we dumped a lot of players who could not skate well....some of which had good skill.

 

[Mad Brills*]

are we seriously talking about carter freaking ashton?

 

[diceman934]

I think It depends on the player and what their skating issue is.

Ie Tavares was a below average skater pre draft, after a lot of work he's now an average skater.

Some players are beyond saving/correcting though.

Exactly.....lots of skaters who are considered a weak skater can be improved a lot as some it is a matter of getting stronger, and others are a body position issues. Remember JVR saying that Barb help him with his skating? Same as Mathews stating that Barb pointed out that his left arm does not come fully across...

 

[WTFMAN99]

Man...I actually watched the Burke firing conference...the way he was talking about how he filled the cupboards, there are pieces going forward for a GM, we have lots of NHL guys in the system, credit to our scouting staff etc...damn.

 

[Quiksilver*]

Still not sure who the goon is supposed to be? Is it Middleton and his career high of 66 PIMS? Or career total of 8 fights in 130 OHL games.

Or maybe because he is 6'06" and 235, he'll never be able to keep up with NHL skating??

What does one have to do with the other?

 

[Quiksilver*]

Footwork can absolutely be corrected and improved.

 

[cookie]

Exactly.....lots of skaters who are considered a weak skater can be improved a lot as some it is a matter of getting stronger, and others are a body position issues. Remember JVR saying that Barb help him with his skating? Same as Mathews stating that Barb pointed out that his left arm does not come fully across...

I know that Barb has pinpointed the shoulder movement issue with Matthews, but I think the better example of a guy whose skating can get better is Bracco. Good technique but lacking power.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I know that Barb has pinpointed the shoulder movement issue with Matthews, but I think the better example of a guy whose skating can get better is Bracco. Good technique but lacking power.

He'll get stronger, and the power will come.

He does have great edge work and agility though.

 

[diceman934]

I know that Barb has pinpointed the shoulder movement issue with Matthews, but I think the better example of a guy whose skating can get better is Bracco. Good technique but lacking power.

Exactly....it is a strength issue and a few tweaks in body positioning that will help to extend his stride to take advantage of improved leg strength.

 

[Bullseye]

Biggs yes, Ashton no and I mentioned Finn who most definitively would be a NHL D man if it were not for his bad feet.

You can work on improving strength in your legs and change your stride somewhat but bad feet is something that does not go away with more practice...I read so often on here that Barb can fix them....no she can not, if so the player would have been better a long time ago. Players are constantly exposed to skating instructors, most take private lessons or the teams they play on have them. Small adjustments in body posture can improve stride length and speed a little, and that is it.

Wow. Finally someone spelled it out. I've thought this exact thing for awhile. Improvements happen but drastic improvements rarely, if ever, do.

Most kids from Atom onward are skating in specialized elite skating instruction schools outside their team practices with some very capable teachers.

Chris Ricci, Kelly Reed, Rick Ferroni, Darryl Belfry have been tutoring AAA teams and individual players in Niagara/Hamilton area for years. I find it incredible some players play 3 - 4 years in the CHL and are in desperate need of a Barb Underhill skating miracle as they enter the AHL.

 

[Stephen]

There's a huge difference between guys like Schenn/Phaneuf to guys mentioned earlier like Biggs/Ashton. Schenn has played over 500 career games, Phaneuf will play over 1000. If guys like Biggs/Ashton could play they would be playing it's not just skating holding them back. Skating is obviously important but if you have the talent package it can be worked on. Do you believe Biggs and Ashton if they just skated better would be full time NHL players? I don't.

I actually have a hard time figuring out why Biggs is so ineffective and terrible as a pro hockey player. The few times I've actually seen him was live and he looked like a good momentum/speed player. One time he scored on a breakaway or penalty shot, and he looked like a convincing power forward doing it, then I go home and check and he's got like 2 goals on the year.

Guys like Schenn just have really clunky feet. For such a strong guy he seems to just shuffle along, kind of bad with his stops and starts and all of his cross overs and such look extremely rudimentary.

 

[diceman934]

Wow. Finally someone spelled it out. I've thought this exact thing for awhile. Improvements happen but drastic improvements rarely, if ever, do.

Most kids from Atom onward are skating in specialized elite skating instruction schools outside their team practices with some very capable teachers.

Chris Ricci, Kelly Reed, Rick Ferroni, Darryl Belfry have been tutoring AAA teams and individual players in Niagara/Hamilton area for years. I find it incredible some players play 3 - 4 years in the CHL and are in desperate need of a Barb Underhill skating miracle as they enter the AHL.

Thanks for the support.

I know all of the individuals that you mentioned. I earned a living teaching power skating in eastern Ontario before moving out west.

Back in the day when there were primarily only two skates....CCM or Bauer I would recommend a change in skates from one to the other depending on a players issues...you can still tell for the most part on older players what skate they used while growing up. Upright skaters generally wore Bauer skates and skaters who had a bent over style generally used CCM the boots pushed your weight forward in CCM skates. Parents would get their kids skates rockered without any knowledge of why, only because they read that Gretzky did etc, however that is another issue that would require me to type far to much.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Man...I actually watched the Burke firing conference...the way he was talking about how he filled the cupboards, there are pieces going forward for a GM, we have lots of NHL guys in the system, credit to our scouting staff etc...damn.

It's crazy to look at - in his time with the Leafs.

Looking at rounds 1 and 2; benefit of doubt for later rounds (but bonus for gems found)
Kadri = NHLer
Ryan = Career ECHLer; 0 NHL games
Blacker = Career AHLer; 1 NHL games
Ross = Career overseas; 0 NHL games
Biggs = Career ECHLer; 0 NHL games
Percy = Fringe NHL/Career AHLer; 12 NHL games
Rielly = NHLer
Finn = Fringe AHLer/Career ECHLer; 0 NHL games
*Most GP of non-1st/2nd rounder is Granberg with 35 games......Granberg!

Funny how Burke and co. did the exact opposite of "Filling the cupboards" We basically only drafted NHLers while in 'can't miss' positions; traded high end 1st rounds and flopped later in rounds.

 

[sommervr]

I actually have a hard time figuring out why Biggs is so ineffective and terrible as a pro hockey player. The few times I've actually seen him was live and he looked like a good momentum/speed player. One time he scored on a breakaway or penalty shot, and he looked like a convincing power forward doing it, then I go home and check and he's got like 2 goals on the year.

Guys like Schenn just have really clunky feet. For such a strong guy he seems to just shuffle along, kind of bad with his stops and starts and all of his cross overs and such look extremely rudimentary.

The problem with Biggs was all mental. He was mentally two steps behind the play all the time. If you could have combined Ryan Rupert smarts and drive with Biggs physical tools that would have been a hell of a player.

 

[WTFMAN99]

It's crazy to look at - in his time with the Leafs.

Looking at rounds 1 and 2; benefit of doubt for later rounds (but bonus for gems found)
Kadri = NHLer
Ryan = Career ECHLer; 0 NHL games
Blacker = Career AHLer; 1 NHL games
Ross = Career overseas; 0 NHL games
Biggs = Career ECHLer; 0 NHL games
Percy = Fringe NHL/Career AHLer; 12 NHL games
Rielly = NHLer
Finn = Fringe AHLer/Career ECHLer; 0 NHL games
*Most GP of non-1st/2nd rounder is Granberg with 35 games......Granberg!

Funny how Burke and co. did the exact opposite of "Filling the cupboards" We basically only drafted NHLers while in 'can't miss' positions; traded high end 1st rounds and flopped later in rounds.

"July 1st is our draft"

Or "We were able to make the Phil Kessel trade because we signed Bozak, Hanson, Gustavsson" ....christ.

 

[saltming]

Exactly....it is a strength issue and a few tweaks in body positioning that will help to extend his stride to take advantage of improved leg strength.

Regarding the issue of ankle flexibility; it can be improved, I am a trainer and it's part of my regime. If the person dedicates them self to doing this, could that then improve 'bad feet'?

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Johny Drama]

he did look good in the small amount of highlights that I saw.

 

[SprDaVE]

I'd expect Brooks to be signed and to be assigned to the Marlies.

 

[Pholus]

I would say the bigger surprise is that Simmons actually watched the camp.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Someone said he will be going back for an overage season?

 

[Menzinger]

The problem with Biggs was all mental. He was mentally two steps behind the play all the time. If you could have combined Ryan Rupert smarts and drive with Biggs physical tools that would have been a hell of a player.

Mental issues were big - but he also had stone hands.

Maybe he could have developed into a Matt Martin type 4th liner if he had pulled things together.