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Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
33,519
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Exurban Cbus
I just don't understand why everyone wants Hartnell gone, where else are you going to get 25-30 goals, 50-60 pts and 100 PIMs from? And would be a force in a playoff series with anyone. You guys are all crazy for wanting to move him, that's the mentality that has brought us to this point in the franchise losing history. He show's no signs of slowing down, isn't injury prone and I don't think 4.75 million is a bad contract for his production and leadership. We have a LOT worse looking contracts if things don't change, Bob and Foligno for 2.

I understand the desire to gain some cap space/money flexibility, and that Hartnell is probably the best balance of value and the team's willingness to trade him.

But I agree with 5150 here in broad concept if not with some of the details. Thus far he has disproven the prevailing wisdom that he will inevitably break down. In fact, it is a foregone conclusion for some. Not for me. There are more than enough examples of players of Hartnell's ilk who have proven effective into their late 30s. I am glad to have held the player a) in the absence of a deal worth making and even if it's only b) they never intended to trade him.
 

We Want Ten

Make Chinakov Great Again
Apr 5, 2013
6,723
2,032
Columbus
I just don't understand why everyone wants Hartnell gone, where else are you going to get 25-30 goals, 50-60 pts and 100 PIMs from? And would be a force in a playoff series with anyone. You guys are all crazy for wanting to move him, that's the mentality that has brought us to this point in the franchise losing history. He show's no signs of slowing down, isn't injury prone and I don't think 4.75 million is a bad contract for his production and leadership. We have a LOT worse looking contracts if things don't change, Bob and Foligno for 2.

I don't necessarily want him gone, he just seems to be a tangible asset for a team at the deadline. If he could cut back on the penalties, I'd have no problem keeping him. He plays a game that the CBJ really need and his game is not built on speed so he should be able to maintain similar production numbers.
If i'm wanting to trade players, he is certainly not the first guy I would offer up.
 

The Jones Zone

Registered User
Nov 27, 2013
6,082
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Raleigh, NC
I have to believe after this move they tried to trade Rychel

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1m1 minute ago
#CBJ Kerby Rychel has been sent to @monstershockey. This is not a paper move. He's actually headed to Cleveland.
 

EspenK

Registered User
Sep 25, 2011
15,621
4,188
I have to believe after this move they tried to trade Rychel

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1m1 minute ago
#CBJ Kerby Rychel has been sent to @monstershockey. This is not a paper move. He's actually headed to Cleveland.

Must want to get him some ice time. Hopefully he has his head on straight and does well down (up) there. He'll be back next year I presume.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,853
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He didn't mention that JK said in the same breath "we know it isn't a high percentage chance" or close to that.

But I wanted trades and I need someone to blame and mock for the lack of them! :cry: :rant:

:sarcasm:

I wonder how long it is until someone accuses me of cutting JK a break today "because we all know you fear change" or something. Anyone care to start a betting pool on the number of posts it'll take?
 

spintheblackcircle

incoming!!!
Mar 1, 2002
66,270
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I have to believe after this move they tried to trade Rychel

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1m1 minute ago
#CBJ Kerby Rychel has been sent to @monstershockey. This is not a paper move. He's actually headed to Cleveland.

I don't think so. They would be selling low. Wait until the draft, maybe pairing him with Tyutin would make it easier to trade Toot.
 

ca5150

Registered User
Jul 17, 2006
2,863
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Columbus, Ohio
I understand the desire to gain some cap space/money flexibility, and that Hartnell is probably the best balance of value and the team's willingness to trade him.

But I agree with 5150 here in broad concept if not with some of the details. Thus far he has disproven the prevailing wisdom that he will inevitably break down. In fact, it is a foregone conclusion for some. Not for me. There are more than enough examples of players of Hartnell's ilk who have proven effective into their late 30s. I am glad to have held the player a) in the absence of a deal worth making and even if it's only b) they never intended to trade him.

Two great things happened today, we kept Hartsy and DSL AGREED with me for the first time in a decade! It's a great day, now let's get 2 points and continue the fight back in the playoff picture, teams ahead of us are going to start sliding now that they didn't get any help at the deadline. I'm all in, let's make the playoffs, even if it's a long shot, screw the draft pick.
 

Jackets Woodchuck

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
4,162
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I have seen the Indians do this before in rebuilding years. The major league playoff run is shot, so go all in on the AAA title.

There are two big differences however:

One, the minor league baseball season (even including the playoffs) ends a week or two before the major league regular season so you can make a AAA title run and still get a look at all of your prospects in the bigs.

Two, the Indians' rebuildings have at least resulted in a team that can string multiple winning seasons together (if the MLB playoffs had as many teams as the NHL playoffs, the Indians would be in the playoffs more years than not).

Oh, and good seats are still available for the Calder Cup run (at least the weeknight games, the weekends may be down to crappy seats). :D

While I am not enthused by the lack of trades, the guys we were looking to deal are on huge contracts with the cap likely to shrink as the Canadian Dollar continues its descent into Turkish Lira-level worthlessness. Neither Jarmo nor JD has a magic wand they can wave to make a trade unilaterally. If they did, we wouldn't simultaneously be in cap hell and last place.
 

Jackets16

Registered User
Jan 7, 2005
12,018
619
While I think the Jones-Johansen trade was a move in the right direction, it's hard not to feel like this organization needs a jolt of some kind offensively. I would have liked a Fiala type pick up to bring that. Oh well.

Fiala has 29pts and is a -19 in 47 AHL games. I know stats don't mean everything, but I don't get why everyone wants him so bad. We already have players who are better and performing better.
 

Forepar

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
1,232
702
South-Central Ohio
Random thoughts:

Hartnell's contract appeared to be too long to get any interest in what looks to be stagnant cap scenario. But other than term, his cap hit and actual salary are pretty good deals in comparison to his production. If he's producing, the only 2 reasons to trade him are a) concern he will decline; 2) clearing cap space.
There aren't any takers right now because of #2 - the teams chasing the SC don't have cap space RIGHT NOW to do the deal and keep their core that is the reason they are in the hunt; and CBJ is simply in a position that it must refuse to take contracts back. That might change this summer - and if so, then we see what we can get. If no change, Hartnell is not a bad player to keep (minus penalties) IF he keeps going at similar production.

Tyutin - not a pickup anyone else apparently wanted. Simply not good enough to provide enough help past rental for playoffs; and he is not a rental - his marked loss of speed/agility make the additional years on his contract problematic. He would be the classic rental otherwise. We might still be stuck with him even after the summer (hope not); if still untradeable after the summer, then if ever there was a buyout option, he would be it. Admittedly he's been playing a bit better, but not worth anything close to his contract as limited 3rd pair D.

Boll - One more year. There won't be takers. Buyout wouldn't save much. If the difference is all they need to get room for Jones/Jenner contracts, then they will do it, but thinking that additional space created by a Boll buyout won't be enough when added - it will take more space than that, unless they are bridging Jones and Jenner.

Cam - A keeper on a good contract. Not sure why some are fearful of losing him, as I see and hear nothing that suggests he is trade bait. The good contract may make him attractive to other teams, but it is also why he is attractive for us to KEEP!

Bourque frees up $3.3M. Tyutin buyout would free up $x (something less than $4.5 i if we can't trade him). C-Mac waived, maybe picked up, maybe LEM. Campbell needs to go some way to free up some space. That would be enough to get Jones and Jenner signed on bridges. I'd like to see Jones on a long-term, and if that is the FO goal, then they will find other moves to create space, be it Hartnell (with something retained), Foligno, Bob, even Dubi, etc...; how they end up in the draft will drive who/what/when. A top 3 winger would make things interesting. Winning the lottery entirely (sorry Jarmo, CBJ is NOT making the playoffs), would really make things interesting as far as getting Matthews and opening up other options. I'm not suggesting that they should dump any of those vets, I'd frankly prefer to keep most/all, but the balancing act will not be easy to achieve appropriate space and also keep enough veteran presence to be a playoff contender in the short run. There are almost no untouchables - maybe Jones, Murray, Saad, Jenner (because of contract low hit if bridged)...
 

Kev22

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Feb 19, 2003
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Plain City, OH
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Uh he traded for hartnell knowing this was a possibility. So yes he's on the hook

Did he not get rid of a worse contract and pick up a far more productive player in return? I don't have a problem with Hartnell's contract, he is paid commensurate with his production.

I agree with you that some of Jarmo's contracts are causing issues (Foligno and Dubinsky) but really the one's that are really putting this club in a pinch (Tyutin, Boll) belong to Howson.

Solving these problems is going to hurt. It will be interesting to see how everything shakes out and it doesn't cost this club somebody they want to keep.
 

Jackets Woodchuck

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
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Fiala has 29pts and is a -19 in 47 AHL games. I know stats don't mean everything, but I don't get why everyone wants him so bad. We already have players who are better and performing better.

He's also on a good AHL team, so the -19 can't be blamed on a lack of talent surrounding him.
 

JacketsDavid

Registered User
Jan 11, 2013
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Did he not get rid of a worse contract and pick up a far more productive player in return? I don't have a problem with Hartnell's contract, he is paid commensurate with his production.

I agree with you that some of Jarmo's contracts are causing issues (Foligno and Dubinsky) but really the one's that are really putting this club in a pinch (Tyutin, Boll) belong to Howson.

Solving these problems is going to hurt. It will be interesting to see how everything shakes out and it doesn't cost this club somebody they want to keep.

He traded a declining player (RJ) with a much shorter contract.

If we would have kept RJ we would still be a lottery team this year but with only one more year left.

As I said we would win that trade for first couple years but after that you may be best off taking your medicine rather than trading for a longer contract. It's not like Hartnell has led us anywhere in the standings. Not a crack on Hartnell - but just the facts.
 

Forepar

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
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South-Central Ohio
Did he not get rid of a worse contract and pick up a far more productive player in return? I don't have a problem with Hartnell's contract, he is paid commensurate with his production.

I agree with you that some of Jarmo's contracts are causing issues (Foligno and Dubinsky) but really the one's that are really putting this club in a pinch (Tyutin, Boll) belong to Howson.

Solving these problems is going to hurt. It will be interesting to see how everything shakes out and it doesn't cost this club somebody they want to keep.

Foligno's and Dubi's contracts are fair $$$ for their production relative to the rest of the league. The term may be long, making them tough contracts to trade, but if they are producing, why are we looking to trade them? Yes, Foligno has had disappointing year, but his contract (amount and term) fit a 50+ point solid 2-way player. 73 points last year set expectations too high, but his contract is not built on 73 pt production. Dubi - you either love him or want him gone. For me, he is still heart and soul of CBJ, and brings it every night (albeit that includes an occasional brainfart at the blueline or penalty), and he is producing close to contract value.

The issue isn't those 2 per se. The issue is too many longer term deals with a stagnant cap (Hartnell, Tyutin, Bob, Foligno, Dubi, and the one not to be named (begins with Cl....). But that is what you do to retain good/great players in their prime. If Bob were healthy and performed at Bob-level from game 1 on, CBJ would be 15 games over .500 and firmly entrenched in playoff spot. He was neither healthy nor performing at expected level (except for a few weeks just prior to injury). We would be focused on playoff run, not on cap hits and next year's contracts (although we still should have been looking at cap hits and contracts in my rose-colored glasses world).

Edit - You could add Saad to the list of longer-term contracts, but he's still YOUNG with still more upside. I would not put him on the trade list unless the offer were beyond great. And that would be #1 picks, and I'm not a fan of trading proven NHL talent of Saad's caliber and age for picks and cap space.
 

Jackets Woodchuck

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
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Am I the only person who thinks the cap is a bit too low if the Columbus Blue Jackets (one of the smallest market teams in the NHL) can comfortably spend significantly above it?
 

Johansen2Foligno

CBJ Realest
Jan 2, 2015
9,253
4,174
Am I the only person who thinks the cap is a bit too low if the Columbus Blue Jackets (one of the smallest market teams in the NHL) can comfortably spend significantly above it?

I would disagree. When you have a hard cap, you want all the teams to be able to spend close to that amount to remain (somewhat) competitive.
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
33,519
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Exurban Cbus
Two great things happened today, we kept Hartsy and DSL AGREED with me for the first time in a decade! It's a great day, now let's get 2 points and continue the fight back in the playoff picture, teams ahead of us are going to start sliding now that they didn't get any help at the deadline. I'm all in, let's make the playoffs, even if it's a long shot, screw the draft pick.

Ha! In truth we've probably agreed more often than that, although it may seem otherwise.
 

Forepar

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
1,232
702
South-Central Ohio
And from another thread, Boone signs 2 yr bridge at $2.9M.
That puts some flexibility back into the Jones contract scenario.

Per https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/bluejackets

Yes, they've already updated Boone's contract at that site. That leaves $6.4M to sign Seth and Karlson (Prout maybe), without anything else happening other than not re-signing Bourque, which seems to be a foregone conclusion. Trade or buyout Tyutin before the summer ends, and you've got enough room to sign Seth long term, Karlson to a bridge and whatever with Prout (I am meh on Prout; he has played somewhat better recently, but not understanding why Cody has been out of lineup other than for trade showcase purposes).

Not saying don't do anything else; we need flexibility for future years. But don't give it away - we've got some time (this summer or next).
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
42,368
24,284
Two great things happened today, we kept Hartsy and DSL AGREED with me for the first time in a decade! It's a great day, now let's get 2 points and continue the fight back in the playoff picture, teams ahead of us are going to start sliding now that they didn't get any help at the deadline. I'm all in, let's make the playoffs, even if it's a long shot, screw the draft pick.

Oh man don't do this to yourself again
 

blahblah

Registered User
Nov 24, 2005
21,327
972
Am I the only person who thinks the cap is a bit too low if the Columbus Blue Jackets (one of the smallest market teams in the NHL) can comfortably spend significantly above it?

I don't think ownership would agree that there is anything comfortable about it.
 

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