Speculation: 2016 Coyotes Off-Season Roster Discussion - Part 3

[hbk]

Roy is all about Roy. When they win its because of his coaching. When they lose its the players. Players tire quickly under that kind of ego.

 

[Mosby]

How about Hanzal and Stone for Barrie and Comeau?

Domi - xxxx - Duclair
Rieder - Strome - Doan
McGinn - Vermette - Comeau
Nook - Richardson - White

xxxx = Bozak? NYR is also in cap/expansion trouble and now Kreider is going to arb. If they won't move Stepan, what about Brassard?

or

Domi - Vermette - Duclair
Rieder - Strome - Doan
McGinn - Dvorak - Comeau
Nook - Richardson - White

OEL - Barrie
Gogo - Murphy
KConn - Z/DeAngelo

 

[XX]

If that was the price for Barrie, he'd have moved by now.

I also don't see how a weak winger forces NYR to panic dump one of their centers. Don't see the reason for the trade, or how the Coyotes consummate it without it hurting.

 

[BUX7PHX]

No reason to do anything with Stone in terms of trade or anything else. Actually, arbitration filing could be the best thing for us. We literally could sit there and let the arbiter deal the contract that he sees fit, and it is of little consequence to us.

I don't think Stone will get above the $3.5 M where we can simply walk away from the ruling. We just take what is given, sign him to a 2 year deal. Gives us the option of exposing him or trading him next season if the injury has hindered him. Even at an increased price and potential injury issues, we can just retain salary on him to get a deal accomplished. All that the potential arbitration does is push the payroll number higher for the team, which isn't the worst thing.

 

[rt]

How about Hanzal and Stone for Barrie and Comeau?

You'd probably have to add a 1st round pick or an A+ prospect. Maybe Hanzal (50%)+Stone+Conditional 1st (defers from '17 to '18 if it falls in the top ten after the lottery)?

Then a conditional 2nd to Toronto (if COL gets the '17 1st then the 2nd defers to '18) for Bozak?

 

[Mosby]

How comfortable are we rolling with Vermette as the 1C placeholder in the case where Hanzal is moved? He'd hold down the slot until Strome is ready. Could be 41 games. Could be 82 games.

 

[XX]

How comfortable are we rolling with Vermette as the 1C placeholder in the case where Hanzal is moved? He'd hold down the slot until Strome is ready. Could be 41 games. Could be 82 games.

I would rather just go with Strome right away. Vermette needs to stay away from skill players. Bozak is the same way.

 

[RemoAZ]

Five most improved teams in Western Conference
https://www.nhl.com/news/western-conferences-most-improved-teams/c-281119428

ARIZONA COYOTES

Key moves: Signing defenseman Alex Goligoski (5 years, $23.375 million) and forward Jamie McGinn (3 years, $10 million); re-signing defenseman Kevin Connauton (2 years, $2 million).

The Coyotes added the potential of 20 or more goals with McGinn and a versatile threat on the blue line with Goligoski, who should contribute on the power play. With Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Goligoski, Connauton and Klas Dahlbeck, they should have the left side of their defense covered. Michael Stone, Connor Murphy and Zbynek Michalek could make up the right side. McGinn could slide into the top-six forward group or add scoring depth on a third line.

No. 1 on the to-do list: Re-sign longtime captain Shane Doan, who is an unrestricted free agent.

 

[Mosby]

Biggest mistake by Chayka will be if he enters the season with the Hanzal situation still as it is now.

He's healthy now and you get him for a full season. Trade value is higher than it would be at the deadline as the acquiring team would only get him for a few weeks at that point.

Have to think Hanzal is looking at that Backes contract as his next contract. Backes got 5 years at 6 mil. I think Hanzal will look for similar, maybe 5x5m.

Does that contract make any sense considering Hanzal's injury history and that, long-term, he could be our 3C behind Strome and Dvorak?

 

[BUX7PHX]

Biggest mistake by Chayka will be if he enters the season with the Hanzal situation still as it is now.

He's healthy now and you get him for a full season. Trade value is higher than it would be at the deadline as the acquiring team would only get him for a few weeks at that point.

Have to think Hanzal is looking at that Backes contract as his next contract. Backes got 5 years at 6 mil. I think Hanzal will look for similar, maybe 5x5m.

Does that contract make any sense considering Hanzal's injury history and that, long-term, he could be our 3C behind Strome and Dvorak?

If we could guarantee that Hanzal would both stay healthy and hold off at least Dvorak in terms of play, then it is worth it.

As we know, the obvious problem is staying healthy, but I (and maybe others) have a strong belief that by next season, Dvorak will put as many quality minutes into games as Hanzal can in a season. If we knew that Dvorak/Strome would take 3 years before becoming an NHL regular, then Hanzal is needed. There are a reasonable amount of 2nd/3rd line Cs available in free agency next year that can make up some for Hanzal. Yes, he has things in his game that can't be replicated (size), but sometimes that piece can be somewhat overrated if not healthy enough to use it.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Biggest mistake by Chayka will be if he enters the season with the Hanzal situation still as it is now.

He's healthy now and you get him for a full season. Trade value is higher than it would be at the deadline as the acquiring team would only get him for a few weeks at that point.

Have to think Hanzal is looking at that Backes contract as his next contract. Backes got 5 years at 6 mil. I think Hanzal will look for similar, maybe 5x5m.

Does that contract make any sense considering Hanzal's injury history and that, long-term, he could be our 3C behind Strome and Dvorak?

and hopefully MacInnis, Dauphin, etc.

Can still trade Hanzal in Sep/Oct.

 

[Jakey53]

If we could guarantee that Hanzal would both stay healthy and hold off at least Dvorak in terms of play, then it is worth it.

As we know, the obvious problem is staying healthy, but I (and maybe others) have a strong belief that by next season, Dvorak will put as many quality minutes into games as Hanzal can in a season. If we knew that Dvorak/Strome would take 3 years before becoming an NHL regular, then Hanzal is needed. There are a reasonable amount of 2nd/3rd line Cs available in free agency next year that can make up some for Hanzal. Yes, he has things in his game that can't be replicated (size), but sometimes that piece can be somewhat overrated if not healthy enough to use it.

and hopefully MacInnis, Dauphin, etc.

Can still trade Hanzal in Sep/Oct.

You guys are talking like last year.
These kids need a good supporting cast, and it does no good to start trading vets, or even talking about it until the coaches feel it is time. Trading Hanzal would be a big mistake unless we get a equal or better C back. Strome and Dvorak looked good in junior, but that is a far cry from the NHL.

 

[BUX7PHX]

You guys are talking like last year.
These kids need a good supporting cast, and it does no good to start trading vets, or even talking about it until the coaches feel it is time. Trading Hanzal would be a big mistake unless we get a equal or better C back. Strome and Dvorak looked good in junior, but that is a far cry from the NHL.

But with only one year left on his deal, that is what complicates things. We could already have the equal or better C equivalents with both Strome and Dvorak already. A big dollar extension could be just as damaging, as it could lead to:

1. A high dollar C getting out performed by youth in as little as a year or two.
2. Protecting Hanzal instead of another player who could get us more bang for the buck on value
3. The injury train hitting Hanzal and de-valuing his extension

I am far more concerned regarding numbers 1 and 3 on the list above. We have seen how assets wind up breaking down (Klesla) over time, and the only difference in that situation was we never really had anyone to replace Klesla at the time. With a lot of individuals nearing the point in time where they make impacts on an NHL roster, any regression on Hanzal's part would hamper our return that we get both in the future, and what we could have returned at this point in time.

 

[YotesFan47]

Biggest mistake by Chayka will be if he enters the season with the Hanzal situation still as it is now.

He's healthy now and you get him for a full season. Trade value is higher than it would be at the deadline as the acquiring team would only get him for a few weeks at that point.

Have to think Hanzal is looking at that Backes contract as his next contract. Backes got 5 years at 6 mil. I think Hanzal will look for similar, maybe 5x5m.

Does that contract make any sense considering Hanzal's injury history and that, long-term, he could be our 3C behind Strome and Dvorak?

I think going 6m/3y is probably the best offer we could do from a financial perspective. At the very least I'd be comfortable with those numbers. If he wants term with it then you have to move him.

 

[Mosby]

I think he'll definitely want term. He's as aware of his injury history as we are. He and his agent will want to secure the most dollars they can.

 

[Jamieh]

Yeah Bozak, Kessel, and JVR were just terrible together for the Leafs.

I would rather just go with Strome right away. Vermette needs to stay away from skill players. Bozak is the same way.

 

[cobra427]

You guys are talking like last year.
These kids need a good supporting cast, and it does no good to start trading vets, or even talking about it until the coaches feel it is time. Trading Hanzal would be a big mistake unless we get a equal or better C back. Strome and Dvorak looked good in junior, but that is a far cry from the NHL.

Agreed. The transition for centers is much harder then for wingers. We would be crazy to think Strome or Dvo will transition as easily as Domi or Duclair. Remember, Duclair was up with NYC then back down the year before. This year, Tip cut his minutes at times. Dvo might spend the year in the AHL. We can't rush either of them and Hanzal offers insurance at least for the year to figure it out.

This all still depends on what Hanzal will want in term/dollars and do we want to keep him? Anyone that would trade for him now will want to extend him just like Shatty. If not, you won't get the same value for either.

Every team is going to look at Hanzal's injury history. It effects his value with us and everyone else. It might help us the way it turned out for Bods, grass not as green as it looks.... Maybe he will sign here for 4 years at 5-5.5 mill. Unless we can trade him for somebody like Stepan, I think he stays here at least until the TDL. If we traded him for Shatty, we would be a 70 point or less team with Vermette/Richardson/Strome/Dvo in the middle. It would be way to much to ask on D for the rookies and would hurt their development.

 

[Foggy1097]

How comfortable are we rolling with Vermette as the 1C placeholder in the case where Hanzal is moved? He'd hold down the slot until Strome is ready. Could be 41 games. Could be 82 games.

Severely uncomfortable. Unless we want another lottery pick...then it's cool.

 

[XX]

Yeah Bozak, Kessel, and JVR were just terrible together for the Leafs.

Boyd Gordon would post career highs with those two. Doesn't make him anything more than a 4th line center. Bozak is basically the non french Vermette. Bad possession player, good at everything else (like faceoffs). Not playing against top competition and with favorable zone starts, he does okay, but that's the definition of a player that doesn't shelter others. That's why the Leafs aren't looking at a huge return if they do trade him.

 

[Sinurgy]

Biggest mistake by Chayka will be if he enters the season with the Hanzal situation still as it is now.

Personally I'm worried that Chayka is going to treat the Coyotes like it's his own personal fantasy hockey team and forget that he's dealing with actual humans.

 

[SniperHF]

Personally I'm worried that Chayka is going to treat the Coyotes like it's his own personal fantasy hockey team and forget that he's dealing with actual humans.

Maybe a bit of hyperbole, but I do know what you mean.

That's what our experienced AGM is supposed to help with. Where is he anyway

 

[Mosby]

Morgan's latest piece speculates that the 2/3RW spot could be Christian Fischer's for the taking.

I could see it. I wouldn't bet on it, but I could see it. Spot is open and he's ready from a physical standpoint. If Windsor wasn't playing for the Mem Cup this year, would there even be any discussion about sending him back to the O? Or would he be playing pro in Tucson?

Domi - Hanzal - Duclair
Rieder - Strome - Doan
McGinn - Vermette - Fischer
Nook - Richardson - White

Not bad. Possibly rotate Doan and Fischer.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Personally I'm worried that Chayka is going to treat the Coyotes like it's his own personal fantasy hockey team and forget that he's dealing with actual humans.

Yeah, I've felt the same vibe. Maybe it's just because he's such a cold fish in media availabilities - could just be a misconception based on his being nervous. After all, he DID sign Goligoski and McGinn. I guess we'll see.

 

[_Del_]

Well, I can see even if he is very personable how high stake negotiations is probably not his forte and may be hurting us at least in the short term (Datsyuk, unsigned RFA's, Doan). Nothing insurmountable

 

[Matias Maccete]

Personally I'm worried that Chayka is going to treat the Coyotes like it's his own personal fantasy hockey team and forget that he's dealing with actual humans.

To a degree I'm ok with that. Certain players are special and should be treated differently, but I think great gms have to think that way at least a little bit. As much as I hate the patriots, the way they manage players is incredible. I think a happy medium between the two is best though. Players who have shown extreme loyalty to the franchise or are players you want to build around get sone leeway, but bottom 6 guys need to be treated like they're replaceable.

Morgan's latest piece speculates that the 2/3RW spot could be Christian Fischer's for the taking.

I could see it. I wouldn't bet on it, but I could see it. Spot is open and he's ready from a physical standpoint. If Windsor wasn't playing for the Mem Cup this year, would there even be any discussion about sending him back to the O? Or would he be playing pro in Tucson?

Domi - Hanzal - Duclair
Rieder - Strome - Doan
McGinn - Vermette - Fischer
Nook - Richardson - White

Not bad. Possibly rotate Doan and Fischer.

Fischer has looked great at camp, and he looks like a big physically mature kid so I could see it.