Proposal: 2016-17 Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part XI

[50 in 07]

I disagree, I think it's actually a pretty fair offer. I'd upgrade the prospect to someone a bit better and I think that's very fair, something like Brassard+1st+Chlapik.

The thing is Colorado isn't look for a "fair" deal, they want a homerun. As you also said they want a young defenceman which we're not giving there. I don't think Icelevel's value is way off, there's just no way Colorado will make that deal - doesn't work for their wants or needs.

What? You realize he's talking about Duchene, right? Yeah, Colorado want's an overpayment understandably so. But that offer isn't even close.

Brassard, 1st, Chlapik is not even in the same stratosphere as Duchene. Brassard, 1st, Gagne, Harpur is even worse. Even if you disregard the fact that literally every single thing we've heard so far indicates that Colorado wants quality young d or blue chip d prospects, purely from a value standpoint both offers are atrocious.

 

[Beville]

Yet, our present GM, Dorian, said himself Lazar was going to be a 30 goal scorer at the NHL level, before ever playing a game.

Are you sure it was Dorion who said that? I could've sworn it was Lazar himself who said it?

 

[topshelf15]

What? You realize he's talking about Duchene, right? Yeah, Colorado want's an overpayment understandably so. But that offer isn't even close.

Brassard, 1st, Chlapik is not even in the same stratosphere as Duchene. Brassard, 1st, Gagne, Harpur is even worse. Even if you disregard the fact that literally every single thing we've heard so far indicates that Colorado wants quality young d or blue chip d prospects, purely from a value standpoint both offers are atrocious.

The problem lies in what COL expects ,they want payment for elite first line players .When its pretty obvious these two arent elite first liners.If anything Ottawa should remain in the bidding ,just to drive up cost on a team like MTL.Ceci a 1st and maybe a guy like Chalpik is as high as i would go .That offer would be pretty tough to match for many teams

 

[operasen]

The problem lies in what COL expects ,they want payment for elite first line players .When its pretty obvious these two arent elite first liners.If anything Ottawa should remain in the bidding ,just to drive up cost on a team like MTL.Ceci a 1st and maybe a guy like Chalpik is as high as i would go .That offer would be pretty tough to match for many teams

Ryan needs to be in that deal for CAP space. If they want Ceci, 1st, etc, then they need to help us out as well. Ryan, Ceci, 1st for Landeskog and 3rd

 

[HSF]

Ryan needs to be in that deal for CAP space. If they want Ceci, 1st, etc, then they need to help us out as well. Ryan, Ceci, 1st for Landeskog and 3rd

Thats a poor deal for ottawa

We lost a top 4 young defensemen and a 1st just to upgrade Ryan into landeskog

 

[aragorn]

The more I think about it the more I think Ottawa should stand pat & not trade away their assets for players who will cost too much. I think most of us expect big things from White & Chabot & then hopefully Brown afterwards & each of these guys could add something more to this team to help them get to the next level as could another 1st rd pick. Sure it will take them a while to get up to speed but all three are offensive players & each just adding a little more might be what the team needs specifically from the bottom of the order to start.

If you think of the future of this team the possibility of having Brown, White, Glass (2017 pick) & Paul down the middle looks promising but more important is adding them to the roster we have now might take this team to the next level we all want to see more so then just one more good player in the top 6 but of course these young guys would all have to make the transition quickly.

2019 - 2020 Roster
Dzingel - Turris - Ryan
Hoffman - Brassard - Stone
Smith - Pageau - White
Paul - Brown - Glass (2017 1st rd pick)
Perron - Chlapik - Gagne

Englund - Karlsson
Methot - Ceci
Chabot - Jaros

Hogberg - Anderson

 

[danielpalfredsson]

The Duchene/Landeskog talk in this thread has gone in circles for what feels like a long time. I hope someone else hits the trade block so we can have a different player to talk about.

 

[Tundraman]

The problem lies in what COL expects ,they want payment for elite first line players .When its pretty obvious these two arent elite first liners.If anything Ottawa should remain in the bidding ,just to drive up cost on a team like MTL.Ceci a 1st and maybe a guy like Chalpik is as high as i would go .That offer would be pretty tough to match for many teams

I agree with this. Even if the Sens intend to back off and not do a deal with Colorado they should pretend any combinations of names like Ceci - White - Brown - Chabot plus a 1st are on the table right to the end to keep the price high. No sense letting a divisional rival have a easy shot at Landeskog or Duchene

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

The Duchene/Landeskog talk in this thread has gone in circles for what feels like a long time. I hope someone else hits the trade block so we can have a different player to talk about.

Its getting into the territory of Drouin 2015 or Penner 2008-2013

 

[Zorf]

He had a concussion in Dec. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2159335

No reason to trade Lazar. Averaged 20 points his first two seasons in the league at an exceptionally young age. He is pretty bad this season. Making a lot of mistakes. Not producing. But there is still some bright points, he goes hard every shift. When you considering him suffering from mono which can cause fatigue well after someone is medically cleared, I am willing to bet that this season is the exception to the norm and not a fair indication of what he is.

Mono+having to learn a new system that requires tons of defensive responsibility on forwards despite missing training camp for a young player is a recipe for a terrible season.

The problem with Lazar is that he looked like a noticeable upgrade the fist game he came back to the NHL for Ottawa. If I recall, he even got a few shifts in the top 6 as a result of his play that game. We were hardly in as comfortable of a position as we are now in the standings at the time (and we're still not 100 percent safe) so I could see why they might have had the temptation to play the best guy in the NHL despite possible long term ramifications of him being unable to be sent down to the AHL. Still, at the end of the day keeping him in the NHL long enough to make him waiver eligible was very short sighted.

I remember the year Drew Doughty sat out of training camp while he was waiting for a new contract. One can only assume that he was still working out and skating while he was sitting out though. It took him until January of that season to get his game back up to his expected level. January. And we're talking about Drew fricking Doughty.

Lazar, who is not even in the same stratosphere as Doughty, missed camp, had mono, didn't train at all, lost a ton of weight, missed out on learning the system, got hurt, and played in Bingo where he missed even more time learning the system directly from Boucher.

So yeah, this season is a complete write off for Lazar.

I'm as disappointed as the next fan in his game, but we should not be expecting much from him this year. Hopefully by March he'll start getting his game in order, but even then, that's a stretch because he's lost the confidence of the coaches so his ice time will be limited.

Trading him now is selling way too low. I'd leave him unprotected for the expansion draft, but to just cut bait at what will likely be the lowest point in his career is a bad idea.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

There has been some debate on whether Ottawa should go 4-4 vs 7-3. How many other teams in the NHL are in the same boat, where they would be looking at giving up a pretty good 4th D to expansion for free. This could mean there could be a few teams at least looking / considering to move their 4th D to get something for them.

If we are looking to trade Ceci ... We may be able to upgrade him for a D that would be looking at being exposed.

Example Vatanen. We could potentially trade Ceci +/- another piece to the ducks for Vatanen. There are other teams we could target if Vatenen isn't the answer, like Savard with CBJ ... and then go 4 -4

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

Lazar + 5th 2017
for

Yakupov + Upshall

If St. Louis falls off a bit by deadline time, this could be a fair deal considering Yakupov and Upshall are both highly unlikely to be on St. L next year.

Upshall is a pretty good 4th line LW and Yakupov could be worth a look. I'm not sure I would actually do this deal, but if the Sens have any faith in Yakupov becoming an NHL player it is probably worth it.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Lazar + 5th 2017
for

Yakupov + Upshall

If St. Louis falls off a bit by deadline time, this could be a fair deal considering Yakupov and Upshall are both highly unlikely to be on St. L next year.

Upshall is a pretty good 4th line LW and Yakupov could be worth a look. I'm not sure I would actually do this deal, but if the Sens have any faith in Yakupov becoming an NHL player it is probably worth it.

Do we have another 5th round pick in 2017?

 

[50 in 07]

There has been some debate on whether Ottawa should go 4-4 vs 7-3. How many other teams in the NHL are in the same boat, where they would be looking at giving up a pretty good 4th D to expansion for free. This could mean there could be a few teams at least looking / considering to move their 4th D to get something for them.

If we are looking to trade Ceci ... We may be able to upgrade him for a D that would be looking at being exposed.

Example Vatanen. We could potentially trade Ceci +/- another piece to the ducks for Vatanen. There are other teams we could target if Vatenen isn't the answer, like Savard with CBJ ... and then go 4 -4

How does that help us or Anaheim? We both end up with the exact same number of expansion draft elligble d.

By all accounts Anaheim is going to buy out/trade Bieksa, trade Vatanen for forward help, and then go 7-3 and protect that forward. So acquiring another d does nothing for them.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

Do we have another 5th round pick in 2017?

Forgot we dealt it for Condon, and I actually meant to write 2018 anyways thank you for pointing out, SoA

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

How does that help us or Anaheim? We both end up with the exact same number of expansion draft elligble d.

By all accounts Anaheim is going to buy out/trade Bieksa, trade Vatanen for forward help, and then go 7-3 and protect that forward. So acquiring another d does nothing for them.

How it helps is;

a) If we are seriously looking at protecting 4 we could be protecting a better player acquired in the trade

b) If anaheim wants to protect 7-3 and are moving Vatenen (in that example). Sens would need to send a + for Vatenen, where they would gain something in the exchange vs look at losing him for nothing.

If there are a few teams staring at this problem, not everyone will be able to trade to avoid it ahead of time.

 

[50 in 07]

How it helps is;

a) If we are seriously looking at protecting 4 we could be protecting a better player acquired in the trade

b) If anaheim wants to protect 7-3 and are moving Vatenen (in that example). Sens would need to send a + for Vatenen, where they would gain something in the exchange vs look at losing him for nothing.

If there are a few teams staring at this problem, not everyone will be able to trade to avoid it ahead of time.

Alright well say we do Ceci+ for Vatanen. Works out great for us if we go 4-4 because we get an upgrade , fair enough.

Anaheim gets completely screwed. If the plus is any draft-eligible player, they have to choose between protecting said player or protecting Ceci. They still lose one of them.

If the plus is something else (prospect/pick/etc), they are in the exact same boat they either have to go 4-4 (protect Ceci lose a forward) or go 7-3 (expose Ceci), or I guess they could try and flip Ceci. But Vatanen has more value than Ceci they could get more in a trade for him.

So unless the plus is something huge, and draft exempt, it's not worth it for them. They would much rather just trade Vatenen for a forward and go 7-3. Which is what their fans have said makes the most sense this entire time. They have no interest in acquiring yet another d-man who they would then subsequently expose and likely lose.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Alright well say we do Ceci+ for Vatanen. Works out great for us if we go 4-4 because we get an upgrade , fair enough.

Anaheim gets completely screwed. If the plus is any draft-eligible player, they have to choose between protecting said player or protecting Ceci. They still lose one of them.

If the plus is something else (prospect/pick/etc), they are in the exact same boat they either have to go 4-4 (protect Ceci lose a forward) or go 7-3 (expose Ceci), or I guess they could try and flip Ceci. But Vatanen has more value than Ceci they could get more in a trade for him.

So unless the plus is something huge, and draft exempt, it's not worth it for them. They would much rather just trade Vatenen for a forward and go 7-3. Which is what their fans have said makes the most sense this entire time. They have no interest in acquiring yet another d-man who they would then subsequently expose and likely lose.

Yah fair enough. They may be able to do that (trade for a forward). If they can't make the deal they want they may want Ceci + , planning to expose Ceci and keep the +. That + may have to be a decent prospect but even at that it could be better then letting him go for nothing. There are other teams in a similar spot as well.

Anaheim going 4-4 could mean they expose Silfverberg. They would likely want to move Vatanen. CBJ may be looking at moving a #4 D, as well as Minnesota and Montreal unless they go 4 and 4.

 

[DanyHeatley]

I would take a gamble in Yakupov
Imagine a
Hoffman - Pageau - Yakupov
Kelly - Wingels - Pyatt
Bottom 6

 

[Sensored]

I would take a gamble in Yakupov
Imagine a
Hoffman - Pageau - Yakupov
Kelly - Wingels - Pyatt
Bottom 6

We'd then have to risk losing Yakupov to Las Vegas. If we're picking up another forward it's likely going to be a UFA. You can only protect 7 and our 7 is: Turris, Stone, Hoffman, Brassard, Smith, Pageau, Dzingel.

I'd like to see us get Vrbata,

Dzingel - Turris - Ryan
Smith - Brassard - Stone
Hoffman - Pageau - Vrbata
Pyatt - Wingels - Lazar
Kelly, Neil

 

[Super Cake]

Duchene would make our top 6 deadly.

Honestly, the Sens need to do something while Karlsson is in his prime. Also only has 2 years left on his contract.

 

[Sensinitis]

Duchene would make our top 6 deadly.

Honestly, the Sens need to do something while Karlsson is in his prime. Also only has 2 years left on his contract.

My top 6 in NHL 17 is Hoffman-Turris-Stone and Huberdeau-Brassard-Duchene

Make it happen Dorion.

 

[Hutz]

What? You realize he's talking about Duchene, right? Yeah, Colorado want's an overpayment understandably so. But that offer isn't even close.

Brassard, 1st, Chlapik is not even in the same stratosphere as Duchene. Brassard, 1st, Gagne, Harpur is even worse. Even if you disregard the fact that literally every single thing we've heard so far indicates that Colorado wants quality young d or blue chip d prospects, purely from a value standpoint both offers are atrocious.

I disagree, I think the value is there but I'm guessing we have different opinions of Duchene. At any rate, the second half of your post is exactly what I said - doesn't fit what Colorado's looking for, so they won't do it.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Our best bet is for Duchene to not get traded during the season.

That way, we see the market for Tavares, if things worsen and he might leave then we bounce on him, or we wait until start of season and do it early. But if things stabilize for him and he stays, then we should go hard after Duchene as he'll be the next best option available for a while, imo.

 

[50 in 07]

Our best bet is for Duchene to not get traded during the season.

That way, we see the market for Tavares, if things worsen and he might leave then we bounce on him, or we wait until start of season and do it early. But if things stabilize for him and he stays, then we should go hard after Duchene as he'll be the next best option available for a while, imo.

I don't see why the Avalanche wouldn't wait until summer when teams have much more cap flexibility, especially considering that Duchene's deal is significant money for another couple years.

Unless someone blows them away in season with an offer they can't refuse (not likely) it's in their best interest to maximize the number of suitors.