Salary Cap: 2016-17 Roster Building XXV | Fire Sales and Bargain Bins

[The Old Master]

So if they are intentionally saving energy for the playoffs, you can't really evaluate them yet because there's no way to tell how they'll compare to the cup run until they start giving 100% effort. Unless of course they already are, in which case they're in trouble.

just on my experience (from pickup -up) that "saving energy" thing never lasts very long.....some of the toughest games I ever been in were friendly kick hockey games ....I remember get slammed through a door and ended up under the concession stand, looking up at the girl working the counter. the only thing I could think of to say was "did I score?

 

[Shady Machine]

I think you guys are reading too much into that quote if you assume it means Fleury will waive his NMC for the draft. I think it means they may play ball to accommodate a trade. That quote doesn't mean a buyout won't happen, by the way. It might just mean that ownership is open to a buyout so why would JR be worried?

 

[ColePens]

I think you guys are reading too much into that quote if you assume it means Fleury will waive his NMC for the draft. I think it means they may play ball to accommodate a trade. That quote doesn't mean a buyout won't happen, by the way. It might just mean that ownership is open to a buyout so why would JR be worried?

Other than being damaged in your trust from DB/Shero, how could you interpret that quote in any other way?

 

[Penske]

just on my experience (from pickup -up) that "saving energy" thing never lasts very long.....some of the toughest games I ever been in were friendly kick hockey games ....I remember get slammed through a door and ended up under the concession stand, looking up at the girl working the counter. the only thing I could think of to say was "did I score?

It'd be hard for players to save energy in games but the coaches can adjust training so the players peak (physically) at the right time of year.

 

[Shady Machine]

Other than being damaged in your trust from DB/Shero, how could you interpret that quote in any other way?

A few ways:

1. JR knows that Fleury and his agent are open to a trade after the season and may go beyond the NTC to accommodate the trade.
2. JR knows that Fleury is open to being bought out and ownership has the buy in to make that happen. Fleury doesn't really have a say, but given all the glowing things JR says about Fleury, JR would talk to his agent about that being a possibility.
3. As you mentioned, it's possible Fleury is open to waiving the NMC and has communicated that.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I think you guys are reading too much into that quote if you assume it means Fleury will waive his NMC for the draft. I think it means they may play ball to accommodate a trade. That quote doesn't mean a buyout won't happen, by the way. It might just mean that ownership is open to a buyout so why would JR be worried?

I may not necessarily mean he will waive but it appears he is either very open to being traded (will make it easy if he's going somewhere to start) or is willing to waive or be bought out (if somehow he gets injured)

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

EDIT: Eh I'm muddying what was actually said. Ignore.

 

[Lust4LEAFS]

Is there any value in a trade like this and is it even allowed?

Pens: Kunitz

for

Leafs: 2018 3rd and Kessels 1.2mil starting in 2018-19

Frees up 3.85 cap for this year for deadline moves and obtain a decent pick in 2018 draft? We'll hold onto the 1.2 for two more years while you compete for cups and then you will be on the hook for Kessel's full cap hit when we are looking to contend.

Just a thought...

 

[Shady Machine]

Is there any value in a trade like this and is it even allowed?

Pens: Kunitz

for

Leafs: 2018 3rd and Kessels 1.2mil starting in 2018-19

Frees up 3.85 cap for this year for deadline moves and obtain a decent pick in 2018 draft? We'll hold onto the 1.2 for two more years while you compete for cups and then you will be on the hook for Kessel's full cap hit when we are looking to contend.

Just a thought...

Nah. We don't really need Kunitz salary off the books this year and if we do, it's not worth taking on an extra 1.2MM for the hell of it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I really don't see Fleury waiving and then being taken by Vegas as at a likely scenario. If Fleury is waiving for the expansion draft, the Penguins will most likely bribe Vegas into not taking him. They wouldn't give MAF the finger by having him waive his NMC only to be taken by Vegas.

I think you guys are reading too much into that quote if you assume it means Fleury will waive his NMC for the draft. I think it means they may play ball to accommodate a trade. That quote doesn't mean a buyout won't happen, by the way. It might just mean that ownership is open to a buyout so why would JR be worried?

I think it means both tbh. I read it as in Fleury is willing to be flexible to make sure both sides come out happy here. I didn't read it as specifically "he'll waive his NMC" or "he'll waive his NTC". JR is at least making it seem like he'd do either.

 

[TorstenFrings]

Is there any value in a trade like this and is it even allowed?

Pens: Kunitz

for

Leafs: 2018 3rd and Kessels 1.2mil starting in 2018-19

Frees up 3.85 cap for this year for deadline moves and obtain a decent pick in 2018 draft? We'll hold onto the 1.2 for two more years while you compete for cups and then you will be on the hook for Kessel's full cap hit when we are looking to contend.

Just a thought...

Besides making no sense, is that even allowed? I don't think you can trade retained salary.

 

[billybudd]

Is there any value in a trade like this and is it even allowed?

Pens: Kunitz

for

Leafs: 2018 3rd and Kessels 1.2mil starting in 2018-19

Frees up 3.85 cap for this year for deadline moves and obtain a decent pick in 2018 draft? We'll hold onto the 1.2 for two more years while you compete for cups and then you will be on the hook for Kessel's full cap hit when we are looking to contend.

Just a thought...

So what you're suggesting is that the Penguins should pay the Leafs $4.8 million over four years to save $2 million this year. One could view this as a $2 million loan that comes with 140% interest attached to it.

Seems like a wise business decision, except the complete opposite of that.

 

[Shady Machine]

I really don't see Fleury waiving and then being taken by Vegas as at a likely scenario. If Fleury is waiving for the expansion draft, the Penguins will most likely bribe Vegas into not taking him. They wouldn't give MAF the finger by having him waive his NMC only to be taken by Vegas.



I think it means both tbh. I read it as in Fleury is willing to be flexible to make sure both sides come out happy here. I didn't read it as specifically "he'll waive his NMC" or "he'll waive his NTC". JR is at least making it seem like he'd do either.

Not unless he's willing to go to Vegas.

If they pull that off and don't recoup those assets in a trade, I'll be pissed.

 

[UnrealMachine]

So what you're suggesting is that the Penguins should pay the Leafs $4.8 million over four years to save $2 million this year. One could view this as a $2 million loan that comes with 140% interest attached to it.

Seems like a wise business decision, except the complete opposite of that.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

So what you're suggesting is that the Penguins should pay the Leafs $4.8 million over four years to save $2 million this year. One could view this as a $2 million loan that comes with 140% interest attached to it.

Seems like a wise business decision, except the complete opposite of that.

Actually it's worse than that, considering Kunitz is owed a good deal less than $2 million at this point of the season.

There's also no way in hell such a trade would be deemed legal by the league. Retained salary isn't a tradable asset by itself.

 

[Riptide]

Wait, you think Philly is that close?

The fans also say that Stolarz is their future goalie and requires protection in the ED.

Dallas at least definitely has no one to protect. Carolina neither. But, yeah, the teams that are "that close" do have a decent goalie. Probably a hen-egg-kinda-thing too.

No, not really. But that's my point. No one is really "that close" that doesn't have a goalie already earmarked to protect.

 

[Riptide]

1. That's a you problem. He has said on multiple occasions that hes not worried about expansion and people chose not to listen to it.

2. Trusting management that has won the Stanley Cup last year? What has THIS management team ever done to earn mistrust?

Its just easier to be a chicken little than to be rational.

Him "not being worried about it" and him "having received assurances from MAFs agent" (or whatever the wording was) are two very different things.

 

[Riptide]

Is there any value in a trade like this and is it even allowed?

Pens: Kunitz

for

Leafs: 2018 3rd and Kessels 1.2mil starting in 2018-19

Frees up 3.85 cap for this year for deadline moves and obtain a decent pick in 2018 draft? We'll hold onto the 1.2 for two more years while you compete for cups and then you will be on the hook for Kessel's full cap hit when we are looking to contend.

Just a thought...

Nope. Once that deal is made to retain salary, that team is stuck with it until the contract ends, or the team that owns Kessel's rights buys him out.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Him "not being worried about it" and him "having received assurances from MAFs agent" (or whatever the wording was) are two very different things.

But theres a reason he wasnt worried about it. Whether he has assurances or he know that there are multiple teams not on Fleurys list that are very interested or whatever the reason is, i unknow and not really relevant.

Whats important is that the person closest to and responsible for the situation isnt worried about it...at all. Which begs the question, why are we?

 

[Riptide]

But theres a reason he wasnt worried about it. Whether he has assurances or he know that there are multiple teams not on Fleurys list that are very interested or whatever the reason is, i unknow and not really relevant.

Whats important is that the person closest to and responsible for the situation isnt worried about it...at all. Which begs the question, why are we?

I haven't filed tax returns in 5 years. But I'm not really worried about it - so it's all good!

Does that mean I should be worried about it, or that I'm just an idiot because I'm not worried about it?

The fact that he said he was never worried about it, doesn't really mean much in itself.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Way i look at it is, only 2 things can make JR not worried at all about the situation.

1) MAF+Agent have a verbal agreement to waive.
2) Pens brass are totally fine with a buyout.

I'm not so sure Pens brass are A-Ok with #2..
If theres no #1, they are much more aggressive in trying to move him, imo.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I haven't filed tax returns in 5 years. But I'm not really worried about it - so it's all good!

Does that mean I should be worried about it, or that I'm just an idiot because I'm not worried about it?

The fact that he said he was never worried about it, doesn't really mean much in itself.

I dont know what to tell you if you think this situation is anything like that one. Rutherford has been an NHL GM for like 30 something years. He has yet shown to be grossly negligent

 

[Riptide]

I dont know what to tell you if you think this situation is anything like that one. Rutherford has been an NHL GM for like 30 something years. He has yet shown to be grossly negligent

Again, that's not the same thing. Him "not being worried about it" has nothing to do with whether he's received assurances or whatever. It could mean that. Or as pointed out above it could mean that he has the okay to buy him out if need be. Or it could simply be that he's not really worried about it, and is confident that it can be sorted out at a later date. The first two do not really bother me, however the third one is absolutely one that would cause people to be worried and nervous about it.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Again, that's not the same thing. Him "not being worried about it" has nothing to do with whether he's received assurances or whatever. It could mean that. Or as pointed out above it could mean that he has the okay to buy him out if need be. Or it could simply be that he's not really worried about it, and is confident that it can be sorted out at a later date. The first two do not really bother me, however the third one is absolutely one that would cause people to be worried and nervous about it.

But theres no reason to believe an experienced GM thinks that way.

Ah, F it we can figure it out later when our head on the chopping block. Lets wing it.

 

[Shady Machine]

Him "not being worried about it" and him "having received assurances from MAFs agent" (or whatever the wording was) are two very different things.

He didn't say he received assurance from his agent and even if he did, assurance of what? We really don't know. All we know is that he's not worried and he's talked with Marc's agent and feels comfortable.