Salary Cap: 2016-17 Roster Building XXIV | You ain't landin' Landy

[KIRK]

Would Sheary still be a RFA after a 2 year contract extension? I'd do that if it didn't mean we'd lose him right after that contract.

Sheary's birthday is June 8. On June 8 2019, at the end of a 2 year extension, he'd be 27 years old. I think he'd be a UFA since free agency begins on July 1.

Really good point, actually. A two year prove it bridge wouldn't work here IF the goal was to still have his restricted rights at the end of it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sheary's birthday is June 8. On June 8 2019, at the end of a 2 year extension, he'd be 27 years old. I think he'd be a UFA since free agency begins on July 1.

Really good point, actually. A two year prove it bridge wouldn't work here IF the goal was to still have his restricted rights at the end of it.

I'd give him a 1 year prove it deal if we were going that route and then get him long term after next summer. Otherwise, I'd just give him a 4 year bridge deal with a salary starting with a $3.

 

[Daeni10]

I'd give him a 1 year prove it deal if we were going that route and then get him long term after next summer. Otherwise, I'd just give him a 4 year bridge deal with a salary starting with a $3.

what type of bridge deal would that be

 

[KIRK]

what type of bridge deal would that be

A bridge too far?

 

[Empoleon8771]

what type of bridge deal would that be

Aren't most bridge deals like 3 or 4 years? Seeing how guys are getting 6 year deals or longer left and right, I still think a 4 year deal for a young player is a bridge deal.

 

[Shady Machine]

Hey, it's not 100% impossible to have thought Shady likes Sheary that much . . .

I might be crazy at times, but THAT crazy? Maybe...

 

[KIRK]

Aren't most bridge deals like 3 or 4 years? Seeing how guys are getting 6 year deals or longer left and right, I still think a 4 year deal for a young player is a bridge deal.

Most bridge deals are considered 2-3 years, and the phrase typically refers to a situation where you've got a RFA and want to sign him to a short deal so you still have his restricted rights at the end. Signing a RFA to a 4 deal that takes him to his 29th birthday isn't what one typically would call a bridge.

 

[Shady Machine]

Aren't most bridge deals like 3 or 4 years? Seeing how guys are getting 6 year deals or longer left and right, I still think a 4 year deal for a young player is a bridge deal.

2-3 years usually, but if you want to give him 4 years, I'd understand.

I guess my thinking is that Sheary has earned 3+MM or so per year (arguably 4MM). However, I'm not convinced he's worth that much for 4 or more years so I don't want to lock him up yet, until we have a little more comfort around him.

I probably misused the term bridge as I didn't research his UFA status before posting "bridge deal".

 

[66-30-33]

A bridge too far?

Are there trolls under that bridge?

 

[Zirakzigil]

Are there trolls under that bridge?

No just a bunch of Germans.


I'd give him a 2 year deal. If he's still putting up good numbers after that then sign him to 4 years.

 

[Riptide]

Because then you protect (by far) more players and have less holes to fill. Getting a UFA D man is much easier. We protect our 3 stud D (Letang, Shultz, and Maatta) and let the others exposed. If we lose Dumo/Cole, one is easily replaced.

We're only going to lose 1 guy. This post makes it sound like we're going to lose a bunch.

Edit. I see Empoleon beat me to it.

 

[Riptide]

Sheary will be due a raise as well. Plus a backup goalie. Dumo, Sheary, Schultz, goalie could take up a huge chunk of that.

Don't forget a #3C. Not to mention that if we retain or take back salary, we won't see/get all of MAF's contract as cap space. So yeah, in theory we'll have a lot, but it disappears pretty quickly.

 

[Riptide]

Sheary: 3-4 years at $3-$3.5 million
Schultz: 3+ years at $3.5-$4 million
Dumoulin: either a short bridge deal at $2.5-$3 million or a long term deal at $3-$4 million

You're looking at something like $10-$12 million for those 3 if Dumoulin takes a long term deal or a little less if he takes a short term deal. They may need to lose Hagelin to make their cap work long term, since Rust, Wilson, Sprong, Sundqvist, Cole and Hornqvist have expiring contracts by the summer of 2018.

There's no way that's going to happen if Schultz keeps up his pace. As I said lastnight (this morning?) the season he's on pace to have puts him at 6th for seasons from a D in terms of their ES points over the last 12 years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

2-3 years usually, but if you want to give him 4 years, I'd understand.

I guess my thinking is that Sheary has earned 3+MM or so per year (arguably 4MM). However, I'm not convinced he's worth that much for 4 or more years so I don't want to lock him up yet, until we have a little more comfort around him.

I probably misused the term bridge as I didn't research his UFA status before posting "bridge deal".

The issue with giving him a true bridge deal (which would be 2 years probably) is that it takes him straight to unrestricted free agency. It's the same reason I'm hesitant to give Schultz anything but a long term deal, if they only sign him for 1 year, he's as good as gone after next season.

There's no way that's going to happen if Schultz keeps up his pace. As I said lastnight (this morning?) the season he's on pace to have puts him at 6th for seasons from a D in terms of their ES points over the last 12 years.

Again, Schultz is a RFA and is only a 2nd pair guy at this point. If he was a UFA, he'd get a lot more money, but as a RFA, he won't have that much leverage. I really struggle seeing him get over $4 million on a long term deal. If he's expecting something like $5 million+, I'd just let someone else sign him to an offer sheet and take the 1st and 3rd in exchange for him.

 

[Jacob]

Just assume Schultz gets $5 million, so we'll be pleasantly surprised when he gets a little less.

 

[Penske]

Just assume Schultz gets $5 million, so we'll be pleasantly surprised when he gets a little less.

I can see him taking a 3yr 4 mil deal. We are going to be a strong team through those years. At the end of the contract if he feels our stars are starting to decline he can go go chase huge money in FA. The cap will be bigger and if he puts up these numbers or better every year someone's going to give him a Burns type contact.

 

[Return of the Paek]

Has anyone heard anything about a Sheary or Schultz extension? How about any Fleury or Maatta trade rumors?

 

[OnMyOwn]

I wish playoff bonino would start showing up a bit. I'm not sure how much hanzal makes right now, but I'd look to dump bones and sign him if his poor play continues.

I'm really hoping sprong can be the RW for sids line next year...though they'd be a pretty small line, haha.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I've liked Ruhwedel and Gaunce up, how is it that the defense has played better with those two in it over what the team had before the injuries? It does bother me that both are also out playing Maatta at times. Olli needs to get his act together, we make too many excuses for the kid.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Just assume Schultz gets $5 million, so we'll be pleasantly surprised when he gets a little less.

I think he wants term more than the higher hit. The guy made a decent salary with the Oilers in the hopes he would earn that amount and he's finally earning what the Oilers were paying him with his play this year. I think around 4.5m/yr for 5yrs is what the Pens will settle on.

 

[Saints11]

What has Pouliot done to convince anyone that he is anything other than a dumpster fire? Sully has no confidence in him at all. I know that he has very little value, so would it not be better to have him tag along in a deal where someone thinks they could fix him. I view him in the same light as Joe Morrow when the Pens lost confidence in him and saw fit to ship him off to Dallas in the Morrow for Morrow deal. He then became a part of the Seguin deal between the Stars and Bruins. Maybe include Pouliot in a deal for Stone or Hanzal from Arizona; or something like that.

 

[Riptide]

Again, Schultz is a RFA and is only a 2nd pair guy at this point. If he was a UFA, he'd get a lot more money, but as a RFA, he won't have that much leverage. I really struggle seeing him get over $4 million on a long term deal. If he's expecting something like $5 million+, I'd just let someone else sign him to an offer sheet and take the 1st and 3rd in exchange for him.

You're acting like top 4 RFA defensemen do not get paid. They do. Or that PIT holds all the cards. They don't. They still need to get Schultz to agree to a contract (or risk going to arbitration). And the only way I see him signing something longer than 1 year is by Pittsburgh paying him a lot more than 3.5-4m.

Looking around, trying to find RFA comparables that signed contracts that did not buy FA years isn't easy (if things went to arbitration). But the moment you start talking 2+ years, you can throw those out the door.

Capfriendly has an interesting tool called "comparables" that I just came across today. If you input Tyson Barrie into it, kicks out a bunch of names. Not all apply (like Jones or Savard), but several do. And if Schultz keeps up his production on the season he's having, they'll likely apply to him as well.

Krug: 4x5.25m
Barrie: 4x5.5m
Spurgeon: 4x5.18m
Vatanen: 4x4.87m
Shattenkirk: 4x4.25m (the lowest on the list and signed 4 years ago)

Hell even Del Zotto was able to translate a 40pt pace season (33pts in 63 games) into a 2x3.875m contract. And that was 2 years ago. Stone just last year got 4m on a 1 year contract after putting up 6g/36pts. Do you really think if Schultz almost doubles that, that he'll take the same (or less) and term?!

Do I think that Justin Schultz will swing for the fences to max out the contract he earns? No, not at all. But neither do I think he'll take the kind of discount you're suggesting and take term. If you're thinking (or wanting) him to sign a contract with some term, I think you need to raise your expectations. Think at least 4.5m; and even then he'd be giving us a discount.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

What has Pouliot done to convince anyone that he is anything other than a dumpster fire? Sully has no confidence in him at all. I know that he has very little value, so would it not be better to have him tag along in a deal where someone thinks they could fix him. I view him in the same light as Joe Morrow when the Pens lost confidence in him and saw fit to ship him off to Dallas in the Morrow for Morrow deal. He then became a part of the Seguin deal between the Stars and Bruins. Maybe include Pouliot in a deal for Stone or Hanzal from Arizona; or something like that.

At this point, I doubt we could get Joe Morrow for Pouliot.

 

[Corvidae]

What has Pouliot done to convince anyone that he is anything other than a dumpster fire? Sully has no confidence in him at all. I know that he has very little value, so would it not be better to have him tag along in a deal where someone thinks they could fix him. I view him in the same light as Joe Morrow when the Pens lost confidence in him and saw fit to ship him off to Dallas in the Morrow for Morrow deal. He then became a part of the Seguin deal between the Stars and Bruins. Maybe include Pouliot in a deal for Stone or Hanzal from Arizona; or something like that.

At least he's considerate, unlike Schultz who's making it hard to pick who to protect in the expansion draft. Pouliot has gone from top prospect to "I hope Vegas takes him so we don't lose someone useful."

After getting walked twice by Scott Hartnell (and 2016 Scott Hartnell at that), he's dead to me.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Given how badly the Edmonton situation broke Schultz, I think he'll be happy to stick around Pittsburgh for a reasonable price. The Oilers were losing all the time and he was getting way more minutes and responsibility than he could handle.

If he went anywhere else it'd be unlikely that they could shelter him the way we can with Tanger. Money's not everything, and if anyone knows that, it's Schultz. His situation is gravy right now.

People may point to the Nisky example and suggest he'll follow the money, but he didn't have to deal with the expectations of being a prize FA out of university and the Edmonton fishbowl.