Salary Cap: 2016-17 Roster Building XXIV | You ain't landin' Landy

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Empoleon8771

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Because then you protect (by far) more players and have less holes to fill. Getting a UFA D man is much easier. We protect our 3 stud D (Letang, Shultz, and Maatta) and let the others exposed. If we lose Dumo/Cole, one is easily replaced.

What are you talking about with "less holes to fill"? The Penguins are only going to lose 1 player to expansion. It's either lose Rust/Hagelin or Schultz/Maatta. Protecting more players really doesn't make a difference, you're still only losing 1 player regardless. If the Penguins lose Rust or Hagelin, they can most likely fill that spot internally. They definitely can't fill a top-4 spot internally. Forward depth is a strength of the Penguins, D depth isn't a strength.
 

Epic Neal Time

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A Fleury trade and Hagelin getting drafted, along with Daley, Cullen, Bonino, Kunitz, and Scuderi coming off the books gives us like $20 million in cap. That's crazy. Especially when you consider that we can replace Fleury, Hagelin, Cullen, and Kunitz internally. That means you either have to re-sign Daley and Bonino, or replace them in a trade/signing. Granted, Dumo and Schultz are due raises, but that's in the realm of possibility.
 

CanadianPensFan1

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A Fleury trade and Hagelin getting drafted, along with Daley, Cullen, Bonino, Kunitz, and Scuderi coming off the books gives us like $20 million in cap. That's crazy. Especially when you consider that we can replace Fleury, Hagelin, Cullen, and Kunitz internally. That means you either have to re-sign Daley and Bonino, or replace them in a trade/signing. Granted, Dumo and Schultz are due raises, but that's in the realm of possibility.


Agreed. With a couple of smart moves, the could really set themselves up for a steller offseason.
 

Bruru71

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A Fleury trade and Hagelin getting drafted, along with Daley, Cullen, Bonino, Kunitz, and Scuderi coming off the books gives us like $20 million in cap. That's crazy. Especially when you consider that we can replace Fleury, Hagelin, Cullen, and Kunitz internally. That means you either have to re-sign Daley and Bonino, or replace them in a trade/signing. Granted, Dumo and Schultz are due raises, but that's in the realm of possibility.

Sheary will be due a raise as well. Plus a backup goalie. Dumo, Sheary, Schultz, goalie could take up a huge chunk of that.
 

Epic Neal Time

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Agreed. With a couple of smart moves, the could really set themselves up for a steller offseason.

I could see us targeting a Shattenkirk-level player. But at forward, I think the best move is to sign a solid center and then see what we can get out of Guentzel, Sundqvist, and Sprong. Having that cap flexibility with so much youth on the roster would be huge.
 

Epic Neal Time

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Sheary will be due a raise as well. Plus a backup goalie. Dumo, Sheary, Schultz, goalie could take up a huge chunk of that.

I totally forgot about Sheary. I sometimes mistake him for being in that group of forwards who got two-year extensions, but that was Rust, Kuhn, and Wilson. Still, I think we'll see a bridge deal in the $3M range for him given his RFA status.
 

Empoleon8771

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Sheary: 3-4 years at $3-$3.5 million
Schultz: 3+ years at $3.5-$4 million
Dumoulin: either a short bridge deal at $2.5-$3 million or a long term deal at $3-$4 million

You're looking at something like $10-$12 million for those 3 if Dumoulin takes a long term deal or a little less if he takes a short term deal. They may need to lose Hagelin to make their cap work long term, since Rust, Wilson, Sprong, Sundqvist, Cole and Hornqvist have expiring contracts by the summer of 2018.
 

Bruru71

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Sheary: 3-4 years at $3-$3.5 million
Schultz: 3+ years at $3.5-$4 million
Dumoulin: either a short bridge deal at $2.5-$3 million or a long term deal at $3-$4 million

You're looking at something like $10-$12 million for those 3 if Dumoulin takes a long term deal or a little less if he takes a short term deal. They may need to lose Hagelin to make their cap work long term, since Rust, Wilson, Sprong, Sundqvist, Cole and Hornqvist have expiring contracts by the summer of 2018.

I could see Schultz in the 4-4.5 range after the season he has had. And I see Dumo going for the latter 3-4 mill on a long term deal. Also expect them to get a Chad Johnson like backup for 1.5-2 mill.
 

WayneSid9987

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Don't forget that the Cap will be going up again.
The Hawks don't pay Panarin 6M if they didn't have some inking that it's gonna increase.
I believe the BoG's met shortly before the Breadman got his new deal.
Thats when they have their early projections.
Every team in the league is getting a Brinks truck full of cash cuz of expansion.
 

Empoleon8771

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I could see Schultz in the 4-4.5 range after the season he has had. And I see Dumo going for the latter 3-4 mill on a long term deal. Also expect them to get a Chad Johnson like backup for 1.5-2 mill.

I still don't think Schultz gets that high, I think he ultimately gets a deal like 4 years and $15 million ($3.75 million AAV). The issue with just saying they'll sign a Chad Johnson like backup is what are they going to do with Fleury? If they're just going to eat $2 million in dead cap space long term for him, they're not going to be able to easily afford a backup like Johnson.
 

OnMyOwn

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Yea. Might have to go with jarry and hope he's ready to spot start. MM is young and can be leaned on heavily, just gotta hope he stays healthy.
 

ColePens

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A Fleury trade and Hagelin getting drafted, along with Daley, Cullen, Bonino, Kunitz, and Scuderi coming off the books gives us like $20 million in cap. That's crazy. Especially when you consider that we can replace Fleury, Hagelin, Cullen, and Kunitz internally. That means you either have to re-sign Daley and Bonino, or replace them in a trade/signing. Granted, Dumo and Schultz are due raises, but that's in the realm of possibility.

Sheary: 3-4 years at $3-$3.5 million
Schultz: 3+ years at $3.5-$4 million
Dumoulin: either a short bridge deal at $2.5-$3 million or a long term deal at $3-$4 million

You're looking at something like $10-$12 million for those 3 if Dumoulin takes a long term deal or a little less if he takes a short term deal. They may need to lose Hagelin to make their cap work long term, since Rust, Wilson, Sprong, Sundqvist, Cole and Hornqvist have expiring contracts by the summer of 2018.

I mean look guys... in the salary cap era, you can't retain all of your players and you unfortunately have to let a few guys go. I think you both put a very realistic example of how these individuals could be kept, but the realization is that we will be losing a few very solid guys and we are going to have to replace them internally or on the market.

My priority - Schultz/Dumo/Sheary. Those 3 are guys I think we have to figure out a way to get bridge contracts and then realize we are probably going to lose them after the bridge.

Kunitz/Cully/Daley/Bonino are all gone IMO and should be. I hope Bonino gets paiiiiid and financially sets himself up for life. It's the right move, IMO. Cully might/probably will retire if he doesn't go to the Wild. Kunitz/Daley - good luck and thank you. Daley is one of those players you can't keep re-signing. You just have to move on to the next Daley.

And realistically the MAF money is not going to be something we are using. It's going to Murray and a back up. So maybe we shed 1m.. but it's nothing game changing. Major focus is on speed/skill. We need to keep our identity which limits us to whom we can go after.
 

KIRK

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Sheary: 3-4 years at $3-$3.5 million
Schultz: 3+ years at $3.5-$4 million
Dumoulin: either a short bridge deal at $2.5-$3 million or a long term deal at $3-$4 million

You're looking at something like $10-$12 million for those 3 if Dumoulin takes a long term deal or a little less if he takes a short term deal. They may need to lose Hagelin to make their cap work long term, since Rust, Wilson, Sprong, Sundqvist, Cole and Hornqvist have expiring contracts by the summer of 2018.

I'm not sure about Sheary. Probably the high end but something a little more favorable wouldn't surprise.

Same with Schultz.

Dumo would've been Maatta money with a good season. The way this one has gone, I'm guessing like 2 yrs, 5M tops or long term in the range you suggested.

Yeah, I think you're numbers are there . . . maybe on the top end of the likely range?

I mean look guys... in the salary cap era, you can't retain all of your players and you unfortunately have to let a few guys go. I think you both put a very realistic example of how these individuals could be kept, but the realization is that we will be losing a few very solid guys and we are going to have to replace them internally or on the market.

My priority - Schultz/Dumo/Sheary. Those 3 are guys I think we have to figure out a way to get bridge contracts and then realize we are probably going to lose them after the bridge.

Kunitz/Cully/Daley/Bonino are all gone IMO and should be. I hope Bonino gets paiiiiid and financially sets himself up for life. It's the right move, IMO. Cully might/probably will retire if he doesn't go to the Wild. Kunitz/Daley - good luck and thank you. Daley is one of those players you can't keep re-signing. You just have to move on to the next Daley.

And realistically the MAF money is not going to be something we are using. It's going to Murray and a back up. So maybe we shed 1m.. but it's nothing game changing. Major focus is on speed/skill. We need to keep our identity which limits us to whom we can go after.

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UnderratedBrooks44

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And realistically the MAF money is not going to be something we are using. It's going to Murray and a back up. So maybe we shed 1m.. but it's nothing game changing. Major focus is on speed/skill. We need to keep our identity which limits us to whom we can go after.

Murray is signed of course so given the ample savings between MAF and a backup I'd say we should expect a solid player for that money or that much more reassurance we keep re-signing who we want to keep.
 

KIRK

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Murray is signed of course so given the ample savings between MAF and a backup I'd say we should expect a solid player for that money or that much more reassurance we keep re-signing who we want to keep.

MAF and Murray costs you 6.5M.

If you are able to shed MAF without retention, then Murray with a backup costs you in the low 4M to low 6M range (depending upon whether they go Jarry as backup or look for an option for around 2.5M).

So, potentially, there's a minimal savings. Also potentially there's a 2M+ savings. Personally, I'd look for a vet around 1M so Jarry can play regularly (and get some NHL starts on Murray off nights).
 

SEALBound

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A Fleury trade and Hagelin getting drafted, along with Daley, Cullen, Bonino, Kunitz, and Scuderi coming off the books gives us like $20 million in cap. That's crazy. Especially when you consider that we can replace Fleury, Hagelin, Cullen, and Kunitz internally. That means you either have to re-sign Daley and Bonino, or replace them in a trade/signing. Granted, Dumo and Schultz are due raises, but that's in the realm of possibility.

Personally, I don't believe you can lose that many players and come back stronger next year. Look at St. Louis.

I don't think we can afford to lose 50% of our centers and 100% of our PK'ing centers either.

Schultz's emergence and Ruhwedel playing well makes me think signing Daley may not be as important, especially if Maatta stay, Dumo makes a come back, and Pouliot looks to make the jump.

So many people though need raises. We have to look ahead as well.

Agreed. With a couple of smart moves, the could really set themselves up for a steller offseason.

Disagree. Steller off season who be resigning people we have to reasonable contracts, letting expiring ones go, and making room for young kids.

I don't think having that many players out "sets them up for a stellar offseason".

Here's why...the *dun dun dun* Expansion Draft *dun dun dun*. Teams will be losing quality #4 dmen, top 6 players, young prospects. They will all be looking to replace them. That means the FA market will be hot, Hot, HOT! If Daley goes to UFA and is open to anywhere, I see a $5x5y...easily. Same with Kulikov. Shattenkirk will make $6.5-7mil. Alzner, if he doesn't resign, 6-6.5.

Wings will be at a premium, there aren't many viable 3Cs, and when there are, they are overpaid and they under-perform. I'm not so quick as to be letting everyone and anyone go.

Trade MAF for obvious reasons.
Let Kunitz walk.
Cullen will likely retire.
Resign Bonino.
Daley either or depending on how this season shakes out
Resign as many of the UFA depth dmen as we can.

I'm just thankful we have a plethora of talent that can step in - in the event that we lost many and resign none.

Sheary: 3-4 years at $3-$3.5 million
Schultz: 3+ years at $3.5-$4 million
Dumoulin: either a short bridge deal at $2.5-$3 million or a long term deal at $3-$4 million

You're looking at something like $10-$12 million for those 3 if Dumoulin takes a long term deal or a little less if he takes a short term deal. They may need to lose Hagelin to make their cap work long term, since Rust, Wilson, Sprong, Sundqvist, Cole and Hornqvist have expiring contracts by the summer of 2018.

Those are very realistic number. My sad hope is that Dumoulin "plays himself" into a decent contract. The signing of Trouba to a 2yr $6mil was great for other contract comparables.

Don't forget that the Cap will be going up again.
The Hawks don't pay Panarin 6M if they didn't have some inking that it's gonna increase.
I believe the BoG's met shortly before the Breadman got his new deal.
Thats when they have their early projections.
Every team in the league is getting a Brinks truck full of cash cuz of expansion.

What choice did the Hawks really have though? Without Panarin he's be SOL. They'd be a boardline playoff team. They painted themselves in a no-win corner. Awesome what he does...but he indeed needed to be paid. They could have Saad'd him but...I don't think that's indicative that the cap will rise. IIRC, they talked about it going up to around $74mil. Not a huge change. LV could help that cap go up more season after the next though.

Yea. Might have to go with jarry and hope he's ready to spot start. MM is young and can be leaned on heavily, just gotta hope he stays healthy.

Agreed. Course there are plenty of backups available. I'd love to get Halak on a 50% deal. I'd love a Murray-Halak duo. Doesn't help Halak's situation per say but it gets him out of the minors and gives us a backup goalie that is known for stealing games on a hot streak.

Re: Next year. Best realistically hope for:

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (13)
Rightwing: B. Rust ($640,000) - P. Hornqvist ($4,250,000) - P. Kessel ($6,800,000) - E. Fehr ($2,000,000)
Centre: S. Crosby ($8,700,000) - E. Malkin ($9,500,000) - N. Bonino ($2,750,000) - O. Sundqvist ($900,000)
Leftwing: C. Sheary ($2,750,000) - J. Guentzel ($734,167) - C. Hagelin ($4,000,000) - S. Wilson ($625,000) - T. Kuhnhackl ($625,000)

DEFENSE (7)
Right: K. Letang ($7,250,000) - J. Schultz ($3,500,000) - C. Ruhwedel ($900,000)
Left: B. Dumoulin ($2,500,000) - O. Määttä ($4,083,333) - I. Cole ($2,100,000) - D. Pouliot ($1,000,000)

GOALTENDER (2)
M. Murray ($3,750,000) - E. Lack ($2,750,000)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 22
NHL Salary Cap: $74,000,000
Cap Hit: $72,107,500
Cap Space: $1,892,500

$1.9mil in cap space that can be used to adjust Schultz, Dumo, Sheary, and Bonino up and down as needed.

Schultz will be an UFA after this so we need to buy as many cheap years as we can in my opinion while not going over board. I think a $3.5mil for 4 years is about right.

Sheary...Fancy Conor McSheary...gonna be tough. Classic "how do you value one good season". $4mil x 4yr and this kid may disappear. I'd love to get him on a 2yr bridge at $1.5-2mil but I think he's earned and will get more. $2.75mil using Tobias Rieder as a guide...kinda sorta. So tough to tell.

Dumoulin on a $2.5mil bridge for 2 years, hopefully 3. Once that's done and it he performs, You have a set top 4 of Dumo-Letang, Maatta-Schultz. Bottom pairing figured out as needed.

Bonino back for $2.5mil as I believe that's all he's earned. He's got a good deal going with Hags and Phil but he's not putting up the numbers that warrant more. Can see other teams offering more so it comes down to a personal decision of best fit. This way we still have a 3 good centers and you have Fehr and Sundy to take up slack on the PK and 4th line. I want to see Sundqvist, ideally this year, before I make any decisions on Bonino.

MAF to Carolina for Lack+2nd. I think with what Carolina has going on, a good solid #1 goalie will get them over the hump. Don't think Ward or Lack do it. They can afford him outright as well if they want Ward gone after this. Lack doesn't break the bank for us either. Would be a good back up. Or, so something like MAF+2017 3rd for 2016 2nd and 2017 3rd from Carolina after the season is done. They expose Lack, keep MAF.

Send that 2017 3rd to New York for Halak at 75% or so.

Just thoughts. I don't see the immediate need for a major pick up unless it was a golden opportunity like Trouba demanding a trade here or Shatty wanting to sign here at a discount. At forward with Guentzel doing well and Sprong and Sundqvist waiting, so I don't see many weaknesses but it could change with the exp draft.
 

pistolpete11

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Apr 27, 2013
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I think you forgot to factor in expansion. I don't see any way we are able to keep Schultz, Maatta, Dumo, Hagelin, AND Rust. One of those guys is going to get taken.
 
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Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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I'd push for a 2 year 5.5-6MM deal for Sheary. He gets rewarded for his season but also has an element of a "prove it" contract. He may push and deserve more, but I'd really try to get him in that range.
 

Asuna

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Apr 27, 2014
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I'd push for a 2 year 5.5-6MM deal for Sheary. He gets rewarded for his season but also has an element of a "prove it" contract. He may push and deserve more, but I'd really try to get him in that range.

typo? that's way too high for sheary

kucherov didn't even get that much
 

KIRK

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I'd push for a 2 year 5.5-6MM deal for Sheary. He gets rewarded for his season but also has an element of a "prove it" contract. He may push and deserve more, but I'd really try to get him in that range.

Kind of my thinking, but if there's what I'd call a legit range of what could happen, I think Emperor's numbers, while on the higher end, definitely are there in terms of what I could see potentially happening.

Personally, I think Sheary gets the prove it deal you noted. Dumo gets a comparable prove it deal around 2 years, 5-5.5M. Schultz, I think, they'd like to go something with term, so it's just a question of how badly Schultz wants to be here (I can't see them going over 4M and suspect they'd prefer something like 5 years, 17-18M).

haha I meant total. As in, 2.75-3MM per year for a total of 5.5-6MM.

Most of us, even those of us who doubt your sanity, knew that. :laugh:
 
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