Salary Cap: 2016-17 Roster Building XXIII | Insert Witty Thread Title Here

[JTG]

A Metro team will back up the Brinks truck for him.

He represents a leg up to almost any team.

 

[SEALBound]

I have made it pretty well known that I'd go after Trouba really hard if I were the Pens, but Stone is a pretty close 2nd. I'm wondering if he has had any preliminary talks with Arizona, and what kind of money he's looking at. If we could nail him down on a long term contract between 4.5-5.0 a year, that'd solidify our need of finding a guy to stand in behind Letang.

We are really missing that #2 we can rely heavily on. After the playoffs, I thought Dumoulin would be that guy, but I'm not so sure now.

Agreed. Trouba would still be my target in a hopeful 1:1 swap with Maatta. That talk has certainly cooled down so not sure what happens if anything with him. His cap hit and contract is exactly what we need though. Trouba to a contender...damn. Can only hope and pray that if he goes somewhere, it's to us.

Dumoulin is feeling that sophomore slump a little bit but I have confidence that he will round out into a great dman. Certainly a capable top pairing guy but not sure I'd call him a #2. What we have are about 4 #3's - Dumo, Maatta, Daley, Schultz. No #2s. However, like Ben Lovejoy said last year before Game 4, when Letang goes down, there is no replacement. It takes everyone elevating their game to replace him by committee.

I agree with that. I'm adding Stone for a stretch run this year with Daley moving to the left side. There aren't a lot of obvious options for top 4 LD rentals that we should sign next year.

Oduya could be a short term top 4 left D, but I wonder if his time as a 2nd pairing dman are over. Other options are likely more expensive in Kulikov and Alzner.

Having said that, I think the more conservative approach (and arguably best) for now and the future is probably to keep Maatta and bribe LV not to take Schultz. Then promote the kids next year up front.

If you do, I think the only thing to do would be:

Daley-Letang
Dumo-Stone
Cole-Schultz

Daley faultered a lot on the left side sans his time spent with Letang.

I think Alzner is going to get paid by Washington. He's not the kind of guy you let go, especially to Pittsburgh. I would love to have him here though. Kulikov would be a great addition as well however I believe he will be highly sought after the expansion draft. There will be 6-8 teams that will lose quality #4s and they will all look to replace them. Kulikov will get paid an amount that just comes from the "right place, right time" aspect. He won't deserve what he gets and that's what scares me with us always so close to the cap.

will Stone come at a price that's reasonable if we just want to use him as a rental? I honestly have no idea.

That's the other caveat. If Stone comes at a price we will pay, it means there will likely be others out there wanting the same thing. With the position that Arizona is in, I truly believe what they would look for is a UFA cap dump and a high pick or a good prospect. Similar to the Bolland+Crouse or Datsyuk like deals. If we have soured on Pouliot and intend to try to keep Stone, something like Kunitz+Pouliot for Stone as a base would make sense. Perhaps Arizona throws in a conditional pick based on Stone resigning or not.

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Daley
Cole-Schultz
Stone

would be a very good defense to go into the playoffs with. If we made a forward move, cool, but I think we've got that part handled, especially if you call up Guentzel.

 

[Gurglesons]

will Stone come at a price that's reasonable if we just want to use him as a rental? I honestly have no idea.

I mean Arizona signed him to a one year contract after basically replacing him with Gogo and knowing he was a UFA. I think wherever he is going he is going to be viewed as a rental?

I think we could just send Kunitz + 2nd. Who knows though, maybe Tampa moves an actual forward for him. I don't see any other team on the East really making a move for him and what West Coast team outside of Edmonton in the playoffs needs D help?

 

[MrBrightside]

I mean, I think everyone would trade Maatta for Trouba but (a) I think it would take more than Maatta, (b) you're still in the position of having 4 defenseman to protect, and (c) Trouba is going to get expensive a lot sooner than Maatta.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I wouldn't trade Maatta for Trouba because LD is a lot bigger of a need long term than RD is for the Penguins. If they trade Maatta for Trouba, they now have Letang, Schultz (who is playing like a top-4 D this year) and Trouba (who is a legitimate top-4 D) on RD and Dumoulin (who hasn't played like a top-4 D this year) and Cole on LD.

 

[Clatartar]

Wouldnt trade either of Dumo or Maatta for Landeskog.

We're gonna need a puck moving 6-7 in a few weeks time. Warsofsky while not being anything special is good for 10-12 minutes a night in a pinch in a sheltered role. Were gonna lose him once we waive him to send him down.

 

[SEALBound]

I wouldn't trade Maatta for Trouba because LD is a lot bigger of a need long term than RD is for the Penguins. If they trade Maatta for Trouba, they now have Letang, Schultz (who is playing like a top-4 D this year) and Trouba (who is a legitimate top-4 D) on RD and Dumoulin (who hasn't played like a top-4 D this year) and Cole on LD.

They also have Pouliot on LD. I believe it's easier to find a LHS LD than it is to find a PMD RHS RD.

It's a trade off on where you want your strengths and weaknesses to be. If you keep Maatta, you have an open spot on RD. If you trade Maatta, you have an open spot in the future on LD.

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-XXXX
Cole-Schultz
Pouliot

or

Dumo-Letang
XXXX-Trouba
Cole-Schultz
Pouliot

I think #2 is easier to "fill in". I also think it's the better defense.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They also have Pouliot on LD. I believe it's easier to find a LHS LD than it is to find a PMD RHS RD.

Well Pouliot looks like he's quickly on his way to bust town and Schultz seems like a capable 2nd pair defenseman. Trading Maatta for Trouba just opens up a hole at LD and fills a hole at RD that the Penguins didn't even really have. I have no long term concerns with the defense long term if it is:

Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Cole-Pouliot/other bottom pair RHD

 

[Gurglesons]

Well Pouliot looks like he's quickly on his way to bust town and Schultz seems like a capable 2nd pair defenseman. Trading Maatta for Trouba just opens up a hole at LD and fills a hole at RD that the Penguins didn't even really have. I have no long term concerns with the defense long term if it is:

Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Cole-Pouliot/other bottom pair RHD

I guarantee you let Pouliot play on a 3rd pairing for an entire year without consistently scratching him and dealing with his negatives, and he can at least play like a # 6. I'm fine rolling Dumo - Maatta - Pouliot as our LD next year.

 

[Penske]

I guarantee you let Pouliot play on a 3rd pairing for an entire year without consistently scratching him and dealing with his negatives, and he can at least play like a # 6. I'm fine rolling Dumo - Maatta - Pouliot as our LD next year.

Yeah that's where I'm at too. Pouliot on the bottom pair with Cole would work pretty good for next year I'd think if he is played consistently.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Agreed. Trouba would still be my target in a hopeful 1:1 swap with Maatta. That talk has certainly cooled down so not sure what happens if anything with him. His cap hit and contract is exactly what we need though. Trouba to a contender...damn. Can only hope and pray that if he goes somewhere, it's to us.

Dumoulin is feeling that sophomore slump a little bit but I have confidence that he will round out into a great dman. Certainly a capable top pairing guy but not sure I'd call him a #2. What we have are about 4 #3's - Dumo, Maatta, Daley, Schultz. No #2s. However, like Ben Lovejoy said last year before Game 4, when Letang goes down, there is no replacement. It takes everyone elevating their game to replace him by committee.



If you do, I think the only thing to do would be:

Daley-Letang
Dumo-Stone
Cole-Schultz

My issue with this is next year. You now have 3 top 4 RD and 1 top 4 LD going in to next season. I was all for a Maatta for Trouba deal earlier in the year. Since then, Pouliot has underperformed and Maatta has improved. I just don't see the point now.

They also have Pouliot on LD. I believe it's easier to find a LHS LD than it is to find a PMD RHS RD.

It's a trade off on where you want your strengths and weaknesses to be. If you keep Maatta, you have an open spot on RD. If you trade Maatta, you have an open spot in the future on LD.

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-XXXX
Cole-Schultz
Pouliot

or

Dumo-Letang
XXXX-Trouba
Cole-Schultz
Pouliot

I think #2 is easier to "fill in". I also think it's the better defense.

Are you watching Schultz this year? Why is he on your 3rd pairing in option 1?

I mean, I think everyone would trade Maatta for Trouba but (a) I think it would take more than Maatta, (b) you're still in the position of having 4 defenseman to protect, and (c) Trouba is going to get expensive a lot sooner than Maatta.

That's certainly not true. There were people who didn't want to do it earlier in the year when Maatta was struggling, before Schultz took a gigantic step forward, and we still thought Pouliot was good at hockey. (That's a bit of an exaggeration, but I'm definitely less confident in him today than I was in him 2 months ago). All three of those things move me away from wanting to trade Maatta for Trouba.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I guarantee you let Pouliot play on a 3rd pairing for an entire year without consistently scratching him and dealing with his negatives, and he can at least play like a # 6. I'm fine rolling Dumo - Maatta - Pouliot as our LD next year.

what happened to Cole in this scenario?

 

[Penske]

what happened to Cole in this scenario?

Cole can play both sides. Pouliot also has some experience on the right too, if they feel he's better off there.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Cole can play both sides. Pouliot also has some experience on the right too, if they feel he's better off there.

He can, that's true. Though he's played much better since being moved to the left side. Maybe its a coincidence or maybe its Schultz, I don't know. But he's playing better hockey than he ever had on the right side for us.

As for Pouliot, the last thing I want us to do is force him to play his off side before he can even get comfortable on his natural side.

 

[Shady Machine]

With the current play of Schultz and my increasing desire to keep him beyond this season, I don't really see a reason to trade Maatta for another dman. I'd love to have Trouba, but is Schultz cool signing a long term deal to be on the 3rd pair and is he worth the money he will cost playing on a 3rd pair? In my view, it's an obvious no.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

He can, that's true. Though he's played much better since being moved to the left side. Maybe its a coincidence or maybe its Schultz, I don't know. But he's playing better hockey than he ever had on the right side for us.

As for Pouliot, the last thing I want us to do is force him to play his off side before he can even get comfortable on his natural side.

I think a lot of it is role and partner with Cole.

 

[Ogrezilla]

With the current play of Schultz and my increasing desire to keep him beyond this season, I don't really see a reason to trade Maatta for another dman. I'd love to have Trouba, but is Schultz cool signing a long term deal to be on the 3rd pair and is he worth the money he will cost playing on a 3rd pair? In my view, it's an obvious no.

Agreed. And is Trouba better than Schultz? I'm not sure he is. And we know Trouba's not cool being on the 3rd pair.

 

[JTG]

I really want to see how Schultz does against big matchups. He hasn't been tested that much yet. That will be very telling.

 

[Fordy]

I really want to see how Schultz does against big matchups. He hasn't been tested that much yet. That will be very telling.

was he not playing 20+ minutes a night for over a week?

 

[Empoleon8771]

In the month of December, Schultz had 18 points in 15 games, was a +16 while playing 21 minutes a night. In the second half of the month, he was playing 23:30 a night and had 2 goals and 7 points in 8 games while being a +5. I don't think there's merit to saying "I want to see him play more", he has absolutely shown to be able to handle a larger role.

 

[MayorofWBS]

The first thing the Avalanche need to do before the they make another deal is to fire Sakic. That Boedker trade was a terrible gamble for a team in their position. They didn't make the playoffs, Boedker walked after the year, and prospect RHD Kyle Wood (235lbs / 6-5) who was part of the Boedker trade is going ham (8G, 22A for 30 pts in 29 games played) in his first year in the AHL.

The 2nd round compensation pick for not signing 2014 first round pick Conner Bleackley was also part of the larger deal for the Yotes to snag Jakob Chychrun.

 

[Penske]

He can, that's true. Though he's played much better since being moved to the left side. Maybe its a coincidence or maybe its Schultz, I don't know. But he's playing better hockey than he ever had on the right side for us.

As for Pouliot, the last thing I want us to do is force him to play his off side before he can even get comfortable on his natural side.

I wouldn't force him either but he has played on the right side including a playoff run in juniors and was excellent. If he was ok with it and doing well then fine if not then look at switching sides or trading him.

If to start next season he doesn't have a regular spot he should be traded anyway. There would be other teams out there that would play him regular minutes.

 

[billybudd]

The first thing the Avalanche need to do before the they make another deal is to fire Sakic. That Boedker trade was a terrible gamble for a team in their position. They didn't make the playoffs, Boedker walked after the year, and prospect RHD Kyle Wood (235lbs / 6-5) who was part of the Boedker trade is going ham (8G, 22A for 30 pts in 29 games played) in his first year in the AHL.

Don't forget that Tanguay--the cap dump they sent to Arizona to free up space for Boedker--outproduced him after the trade.

 

[NMK11]

In the month of December, Schultz had 18 points in 15 games, was a +16 while playing 21 minutes a night. In the second half of the month, he was playing 23:30 a night and had 2 goals and 7 points in 8 games while being a +5. I don't think there's merit to saying "I want to see him play more", he has absolutely shown to be able to handle a larger role.

I think theres merit to that statement only if he has been playing against lower competition than others. I know there are stats out there for this somewhere, but if hes been playing heavy minutes against 3rd and fourth lines and with a lot of PP time, it doesnt answer the question of can he be average or above defensively.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think theres merit to that statement only if he has been playing against lower competition than others. I know there are stats out there for this somewhere, but if hes been playing heavy minutes against 3rd and fourth lines and with a lot of PP time, it doesnt answer the question of can he be average or above defensively.

You can't really hide someone against 3rd and 4th lines if you're playing them 21-23 minutes a night.