Salary Cap: 2016-17 Roster Building XXIII | Insert Witty Thread Title Here

[MrBrightside]

Okay so you traded Maatta and Sundqvist for Landy. Who slots in as 3C and 4C next year?

Landeskog-Crosby-Sheary
Guentzel-Malkin-Hornqvist
Hagelin-xxx-Kessel
Kuhnhackl-Fehr-Rust

Dumo-Letang
xxx-Schultz
Pouliot-Cole

Damn solid lineup but those are 2 very big holes to fill and not a lot of money to do it.

Let me ask you this. Assuming they go 7-3-1 on protections for the expansion draft, which 2 defensemen are you protecting out of Maatta, Dumoulin, and Schultz? Don't you think there's a very real risk of losing one of them regardless?

 

[JTG]

Would people feel better about it if instead of comparing his offensive game to Rob Scuderi that it was compared to Brian Dumoulin?

How do you go from Scuderi to Dumoulin? In bringing up Rob Scuderi you are talking about a defenseman who had a hard time even making a simple outlet pass consistently. Both Maatta and Dumoulin can move the puck and hold their own in offensive situations. They may not be a Letang or a Schultz, but they aren't completely inept in the offensive side of things either. Your comparisons make no sense.

 

[MrBrightside]

How do you go from Scuderi to Dumoulin? In bringing up Rob Scuderi you are talking about a defenseman who had a hard time even making a simple outlet pass consistently. Both Maatta and Dumoulin can move the puck and hold their own in offensive situations. They may not be a Letang or a Schultz, but they aren't completely inept in the offensive side of things either. Your comparisons make no sense.

So you're agreeing that Maatta and Dumoulin have similar offensive games but it makes no sense that I'm comparing the two offensively. Ok.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He has 23 points in his last 104 games. He has 5 in his last 48. While playing on the highest scoring team in the NHL. He may have more offensive potential than that, but it's pretty clear to me his skating issues have caused his game to evolve into a pure stay-at-home guy.

I think there have been far too many variables with Maatta over that period to come to that conclusion. The coaching staff even explicitly said Maatta's issues to start the year were likely due to regulating his cancer medication.

This year has been an aberration in terms of production. Before we assume his production's simply gone down the crapper just uh...because, it's probably best to see if the myriad of other things he had going on were to blame.

 

[JTG]

Let me ask you this. Assuming they go 7-3-1 on protections for the expansion draft, which 2 defensemen are you protecting out of Maatta, Dumoulin, and Schultz? Don't you think there's a very real risk of losing one of them regardless?

And as valid as a point as this may be, what do you do on the blueline going forward this season? You have to wait until after the draft to make trades, and the expansion draft comes before that. You feel good about running Ruhwedel on the bottom pair for the rest of the season? I don't.

 

[MrBrightside]

And as valid as a point as this may be, what do you do on the blueline going forward this season? You have to wait until after the draft to make trades, and the expansion draft comes before that. You feel good about running Ruhwedel on the bottom pair for the rest of the season? I don't.

Well, if you trade Maatta for Landeskog I think you have to add another defenseman before the deadline.

 

[JTG]

Well, if you trade Maatta for Landeskog I think you have to add another defenseman before the deadline.

What kind of defenseman though? Probably a rental. I don't see the point. If you're bringing in a rental, just bring in a rental up front.

 

[MrBrightside]

What kind of defenseman though? Probably a rental. I don't see the point. If you're bringing in a rental, just bring in a rental up front.

The point would be that, if you think Landeskog is a better player and more valuable piece than Maatta over the longhaul, you acquire the better player. Yes, I would think a rental defenseman.

Look, I'm not sold on the idea of the trade. I just think they're going to lose one of Dumo, Maatta, and Schultz in the expansion draft, and if we can acquire a Top 6 forward rather than losing one for nothing, it's interesting to me.

 

[Shady Machine]

Let me ask you this. Assuming they go 7-3-1 on protections for the expansion draft, which 2 defensemen are you protecting out of Maatta, Dumoulin, and Schultz? Don't you think there's a very real risk of losing one of them regardless?

That's a different question that what I was asking (I wanted to show you the hole at 3C and D) but fair response. I'm still of the view that you protect Maatta and Dumo and bribe LV not to take Schultz.

 

[MrBrightside]

That's a different question that what I was asking (I wanted to show you the hole at 3C and D) but fair response. I'm still of the view that you protect Maatta and Dumo and bribe LV not to take Schultz.

It is a different question but they are tied together. I think the trade becomes more attractive because of the possibility, and likely a probability, that we'd lose one of the 3 and I think they'll be in the position of filling a hole one way or the other.

 

[Shady Machine]

The point would be that, if you think Landeskog is a better player and more valuable piece than Maatta over the longhaul, you acquire the better player. Yes, I would think a rental defenseman.

Look, I'm not sold on the idea of the trade. I just think they're going to lose one of Dumo, Maatta, and Schultz in the expansion draft, and if we can acquire a Top 6 forward rather than losing one for nothing, it's interesting to me.

I agree with this view if it's Maatta + prospect not named Sprong, Sundqvist, or Guentzel.

I think you can move Maatta+ for Landy and then bring in Stone (he's a right shot D, but Daley can play left side).

Daley-Letang
Dumo-Stone
Cole-Schultz

That could work out really well but they'd obviously need to move Kunitz or Fleury to fit it under the cap.

Next year there are questions on how to replace the defense with Stone and Daley departing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So you're agreeing that Maatta and Dumoulin have similar offensive games but it makes no sense that I'm comparing the two offensively. Ok.

No, your comparison of Maatta/Dumoulin to Scuderi makes no sense. Comparing Dumo and Maatta makes some sense, but even then, Maatta has Dumoulin's passing and playmaking plus a better shot. If you want to make logical comparisons, compare Dumoulin to Martin (although faster and bigger) and compare Maatta to Ekholm.

Read Ekholm's HF description and tell me this doesn't sound like Maatta:

Ekholm has good two-way ability with decent overall mobility. The puck moving defender makes the simple and smart passes to get out of his zone. He has good hockey sense, plays with poise and patience while possessing a heavy shot. The big defender needs to work on his physical game while improving his reverse pivots and angling techniques. He still has to adjust to the smaller ice surface, speed and size at the AHL in order to make the jump to the NHL.

 

[JTG]

Bringing in Stone is something I can really get behind. A friend just told me yesterday that his name has been in rumors. Big fan of his. I think Martin could turn him into a top defenseman in this league.

 

[Shady Machine]

It is a different question but they are tied together. I think the trade becomes more attractive because of the possibility, and likely a probability, that we'd lose one of the 3 and I think they'll be in the position of filling a hole one way or the other.

If it's Schultz that they leave exposed, I think there's a decent chance McPhee passes assuming Schultz loves Pittsburgh. I've said before Schultz could just sign a 1 year deal with Vegas and McPhee can move him as a rental if they can't get a long term deal done. That said, if the Pens pay McPhee a 2nd and gets to pick Wilson or Pouliot, that might be more valuable to him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bringing in Stone is something I can really get behind. A friend just told me yesterday that his name has been in rumors. Big fan of his. I think Martin could turn him into a top defenseman in this league.

The issue is where does he play? If it's Daley out and Stone in, I can get behind that. However, just adding him without sending anyone out doesn't make that much sense. He's way too good and would cost way too much in a trade to be a #7.

 

[Shady Machine]

No, your comparison of Maatta/Dumoulin to Scuderi makes no sense. Comparing Dumo and Maatta makes some sense, but even then, Maatta has Dumoulin's passing and playmaking plus a better shot. If you want to make logical comparisons, compare Dumoulin to Martin (although faster and bigger) and compare Maatta to Ekholm.

Read Ekholm's HF description and tell me this doesn't sound like Maatta:

That's a pretty old description of Ekholm though. In my view, Ekholm is a better offensive player than Maatta. Maatta has that ability though, which is what you are suggesting. Decent comparison.

 

[Shady Machine]

The issue is where does he play? If it's Daley out and Stone in, I can get behind that. However, just adding him without sending anyone out doesn't make that much sense. He's way too good and would cost way too much in a trade to be a #7.

I think the idea here is if the Pens are really interested in Landeskog, a guy like Stone can be a top 4 rental to fill in when they move Maatta.

I do really like Maatta and his potential is high, but I wonder if Sully thinks he's a long term fit on this team. I obviously have no way of knowing, but if a guy like Landy is on the table and you can get Stone as a fill in, you help the now and the future.

I'm certainly not sold, but it's something to consider.

That allows you to roll:

Daley-Letang (Daley hasn't been great this year but that pairing was awesome last year)
Dumo-Stone
Cole-Schultz

Then if you really have to, go get a number 7 somewhere else.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's a pretty old description of Ekholm though. In my view, Ekholm is a better offensive player than Maatta. Maatta has that ability though, which is what you are suggesting. Decent comparison.

Ekholm developed more offensively as he grew older. At Maatta's age, Ekholm had 1 goal and 9 points in 63 games. It's not a perfect comparison, but Ekholm's description of a cerebral 2-way D with average mobility, a good outlet pass and a big shot fits Maatta pretty well. I really like Ekholm and I feel like that description fits him well today.

 

[SEALBound]

I'm not fixated and not on a tirade. I was responding to this post:

But it's all good. We cannot criticize any Penguin other than Kunitz, Fehr, or Fleury. Noted. Carry on.

Sell your victim game to someone else.

I agree with this view if it's Maatta + prospect not named Sprong, Sundqvist, or Guentzel.

I think you can move Maatta+ for Landy and then bring in Stone (he's a right shot D, but Daley can play left side).

Daley-Letang
Dumo-Stone
Cole-Schultz

That could work out really well but they'd obviously need to move Kunitz or Fleury to fit it under the cap.

Next year there are questions on how to replace the defense with Stone and Daley departing.

Stone+4th for Kunitz+Pouliot

Maatta+ARI 4th for Landeskog

Landy-Sid-Sheary
Rust-Malkin-Horny
Hags-Bones-Kessel
Wilson-Cully-Kuhn

Dumo-Letang
Stone-Daley
Cole-Schultz

The issue is where does he play? If it's Daley out and Stone in, I can get behind that. However, just adding him without sending anyone out doesn't make that much sense. He's way too good and would cost way too much in a trade to be a #7.

Agreed. If you go to the trouble of bringing in a guy like Stone, I think you have actual plans for him, both short and possibly long term. It means that you decide which dman isn't cutting it so to speak. Now if you did what I suggested above (or something similar) it does make expansion a little easier:

Sid-Geno-Kessel-Horny-Hags-Landy-Sundqvist, Letang-Dumo-Schultz, MM. You then perhaps trade MAF and use the assets to protect some other guy like Rust. Say you get 2 2nds. Hey, maybe it's a 2nd to LV to take Fehr? You leave Stone and Daley as UFAs. If Vegaas takes neither, you have the chance to get them back both. Otherwise, you are paying to protect Schultz. Not necessarily the best overall route but just a different one.

Other problem is, you start to run into another logjam at forward. I assume Guentzel will make the jump. You also have Sprong, who could easily stay in the AHL.

Sheary-Sid-Rust
Landy-Malkin-Kessel
Hags-Bones-Horny
Guentzel-Sundy-Wilson/Kuhn

 

[Penske]

I don't think anyone should be comparing Maatta to anyone at this stage. He has to work his way back from injuries/cancer. That takes time. If say in a year he's not getting many points then yeah maybe start the comparisons but right now Scuderi nor Dumoulin had to return from cancer and the problems it causes.

Maatta most likely improves his offence. Give it time. This isn't his peak right now. Even with all his past problems let's not forget he is 22 years old.

 

[JTG]

I think the idea here is if the Pens are really interested in Landeskog, a guy like Stone can be a top 4 rental to fill in when they move Maatta.

I do really like Maatta and his potential is high, but I wonder if Sully thinks he's a long term fit on this team. I obviously have no way of knowing, but if a guy like Landy is on the table and you can get Stone as a fill in, you help the now and the future.

I'm certainly not sold, but it's something to consider.

That allows you to roll:

Daley-Letang (Daley hasn't been great this year but that pairing was awesome last year)
Dumo-Stone
Cole-Schultz

Then if you really have to, go get a number 7 somewhere else.

I have made it pretty well known that I'd go after Trouba really hard if I were the Pens, but Stone is a pretty close 2nd. I'm wondering if he has had any preliminary talks with Arizona, and what kind of money he's looking at. If we could nail him down on a long term contract between 4.5-5.0 a year, that'd solidify our need of finding a guy to stand in behind Letang.

We are really missing that #2 we can rely heavily on. After the playoffs, I thought Dumoulin would be that guy, but I'm not so sure now.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Schultz has done a damn good job being the guy behind Letang this year. I would like Stone, but I'd prefer adding a LD if we move Maatta. Its fine with Daley for this year, but we'll need a better LD going forward compared to RD if we move Maatta. Replacing Maatta with Stone/Trouba leaves us with a top 4 D-man (Schultz or Stone) on the 3rd pairing on the right, and with a 3rd pairing d-man (Cole) in the top 4 on the left barring another addition.

This would be a much easier move to make if Pouliot was playing as expected.

 

[Shady Machine]

Schultz has done a damn good job being the guy behind Letang this year. I would like Stone, but I'd prefer adding a LD if we move Maatta. Its fine with Daley for this year, but we'll need a better LD going forward compared to RD if we move Maatta. Replacing Maatta with Stone/Trouba leaves us with a top 4 D-man (Schultz or Stone) on the 3rd pairing on the right, and with a 3rd pairing d-man (Cole) in the top 4 on the left barring another addition.

This would be a much easier move to make if Pouliot was playing as expected.

I agree with that. I'm adding Stone for a stretch run this year with Daley moving to the left side. There aren't a lot of obvious options for top 4 LD rentals that we should sign next year.

Oduya could be a short term top 4 left D, but I wonder if his time as a 2nd pairing dman are over. Other options are likely more expensive in Kulikov and Alzner.

Having said that, I think the more conservative approach (and arguably best) for now and the future is probably to keep Maatta and bribe LV not to take Schultz. Then promote the kids next year up front.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I agree with that. I'm adding Stone for a stretch run this year with Daley moving to the left side. There aren't a lot of obvious options for top 4 LD rentals that we should sign next year.

will Stone come at a price that's reasonable if we just want to use him as a rental? I honestly have no idea.

 

[Shady Machine]

will Stone come at a price that's reasonable if we just want to use him as a rental? I honestly have no idea.

I have no idea

Doubtful to be honest. Just a half baked idea right now.