Salary Cap: 2016-17 Roster Building XXIII | Insert Witty Thread Title Here

[Empoleon8771]

Poor skating defensive defenseman with limited offense. Sounds like young Scuderi,no? Scuds was more physical?

A. Maatta doesn't have limited offense, you have to have the memory of a rabbit to honestly think that. Maatta in an uncharacteristically bad year for him is producing not much less than what Scuderi produced at his best.
B. Maatta's passing game is light years ahead of Scuderi's passing
C. Scuderi was probably an even worse skater than Maatta, even in his prime

So yeah, that's a trash example.

 

[Gurglesons]

The only thing I know for sure about wingers is that we shouldn't trade for one before seeing more of what Guentzel can do on the big team.

Michael Stone.... I think there's a big risk he is an average player having gotten (so far one season wonder) bigger numbers than can get on a good team on account of having played too heavy minutes on a bad team. He was average before and has been average this season, but has now earned his shot at an UFA over-payment to set him up for life. Doubt we should be the ones to get in on that.

Or maybe I just don't trust guys with narrow-set, mousy looking eyes. I be sorta racist on that score.

I mean, Stone is what he is. He put up a career high last year because he was fed power play time since they lost Yandle. He's also recovering from off season surgery this year, so I wouldn't put much stock into him.

The reason I'd trade for him is because I have no desire to sign Daley and I think we are going to lose a defenseman in the expansion draft. I also think he might take a cheap deal to be with a contender.

 

[JTG]

Young Scuderi is a fair comparison for the current Maatta.

Maatta produces at points at double the pace Scuderi did. He's able to make a great first pass, and he has a good, low, hard shot from the point.

I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[torrencemd]

I'd personally drive Maatta to the airport for Landeskog... I mean I would have to se the extras involved on out side, but really people would be afraid to throw in extras to see Malkin-Kessel and Sid-Ladeskog at the expense of a Defensemen that may have some great upside, but he's on west coast and isn't a tope 10 defensemen. I'd like to see the deal, but I don't think anyone is untouchable, outside of Sid Geno Phil and id like to thing Murray. Even Maatta can be had for the right HOCKEY TRADE. Not panic trade especially when we are 2nd/3rd in the league in the race. Maybe we need that bump to get over a CBJ. Our defense isn't stellar, but

Letang-Dumo
Cole-Schultz

is our Legit top four and placing bias on the kids to come up hasn't hurt yet. What are we going to do with MAF. We surely need to move him by trade deadline. If not, man I am gonna sit back and watch JR hopefully work some voodoo black magic

 

[Ugene Magic]

And again, Maatta is better without Daley (55%>45%). So maybe the issue isn't them individually, but the pair? Or the role they're being asked to fill as a pair?

One of the issues here is that you're looking at a single stat and trying to draw conclusions from it, when you can't really - at least not in the absolute sense that "Maatta isn't a top 4D".

This is a great point.

That then asks who was he best with?

Letang?
Daley?
Lovejoy?
Niskanen?
Orpik?

It's hard to say with all the injuries to this team over the years.

I think Maatta was the best when he was driving his pair and his partner was the safety valve.

Too many risk takers.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

This is a great point.

That then asks who was he best with?

Letang?
Daley?
Lovejoy?
Niskanen?
Orpik?

It's hard to say with all the injuries to this team over the years.

I think Maatta was the best when he was driving his pair and his partner was the safety valve.

Too many risk takers.

Agreed i think there is a reason he played so well with Nisky. He could prvide offense but was never over aggressive, and was always back. Maata plays to his strengths when he is attacking and being aggressive.

 

[MrBrightside]

A. Maatta doesn't have limited offense, you have to have the memory of a rabbit to honestly think that. Maatta in an uncharacteristically bad year for him is producing not much less than what Scuderi produced at his best.
B. Maatta's passing game is light years ahead of Scuderi's passing
C. Scuderi was probably an even worse skater than Maatta, even in his prime

So yeah, that's a trash example.

He has 23 points in his last 104 games. He has 5 in his last 48. While playing on the highest scoring team in the NHL. He may have more offensive potential than that, but it's pretty clear to me his skating issues have caused his game to evolve into a pure stay-at-home guy.

 

[The Old Master]

maatta's strength is and was always his head. he always seemed to make the right play. imo. he also is one of the few defense men we have that would be even better another team.
(that plays a slower game)

 

[pistolpete11]

I’m not against moving Maatta for Landy, but a few things to need to happen:

1. The +(‘s) from our side can’t be Guentzel, Sprong, or Sundqvist. With Landy in the mix, they would have a lot of money tied up in a few players for years to come. They will need those guys to play big roles for cheap. If that means we can’t get Landy, then so be it.
2. They need to have another deal lined up for a defenseman. I’m not sold on Pouliot to this point, but even ignoring that, they would be 1 injury away from having a very noticeable weak link in their defense. That’s not something I want to go into the playoffs with.

The Pens don’t need Landy. He’d be a luxury, but they don’t need to go out and make a big splash. So I don’t think it is worth it to potentially hurt the future of the team to upgrade it now. They are good enough to win without him.

 

[MrBrightside]

I’m not against moving Maatta for Landy, but a few things to need to happen:

1. The +(‘s) from our side can’t be Guentzel, Sprong, or Sundqvist. With Landy in the mix, they would have a lot of money tied up in a few players for years to come. They will need those guys to play big roles for cheap. If that means we can’t get Landy, then so be it.
2. They need to have another deal lined up for a defenseman. I’m not sold on Pouliot to this point, but even ignoring that, they would be 1 injury away from having a very noticeable weak link in their defense. That’s not something I want to go into the playoffs with.

The Pens don’t need Landy. He’d be a luxury, but they don’t need to go out and make a big splash. So I don’t think it is worth it to potentially hurt the future of the team to upgrade it now. They are good enough to win without him.

I don't think I'd make Sundqvist a dealbreaker. He's a nice player and will likely be a solid 3C or 4C, but you can generally find those guys laying around in the offseason without much difficulty.

And they don't need Landeskog NOW, but with Kunitz about to be gone, Hornqvist up after next year, and with the possibility of losing someone in the expansion draft very real, it's more of a longterm solution.

 

[pistolpete11]

I don't think I'd make Sundqvist a dealbreaker. He's a nice player and will likely be a solid 3C or 4C, but you can generally find those guys laying around in the offseason without much difficulty.

And they don't need Landeskog NOW, but with Kunitz about to be gone, Hornqvist up after next year, and with the possibility of losing someone in the expansion draft very real, it's more of a longterm solution.

Last year, I would have agreed. But with his breakout year offensively, I think he's on track to be a good 3C.

3C's aren't hard to find, but they are hard to find for $700,000, which is my main point. They need cheap contracts to make significant contributions...especially if they add another $5M+ player.

 

[Shady Machine]

Poor skating defensive defenseman with limited offense. Sounds like young Scuderi,no? Scuds was more physical?

Scuds was a pure stay at home guy that couldn't skate well, move the puck well, or add in offensive transition.

Maatta is a below average skater for this NHL (much better than Scuds was though), but he has a very high hockey IQ and is a great passer. Scuds breakout was chipping it off the glass. Maatta makes a heads up play that leads to transition all the time. He's just much better with the puck on his stick.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't think I'd make Sundqvist a dealbreaker. He's a nice player and will likely be a solid 3C or 4C, but you can generally find those guys laying around in the offseason without much difficulty.

And they don't need Landeskog NOW, but with Kunitz about to be gone, Hornqvist up after next year, and with the possibility of losing someone in the expansion draft very real, it's more of a longterm solution.

You have to consider context. Cullen probably retires, Bones probably leaves via free agency. Maybe Sundqvist is a solid 3 or 4C, but we need him and another center next year. Where are we going to find a 3C in free agency without overpaying?

 

[Empoleon8771]

He has 23 points in his last 104 games. He has 5 in his last 48. While playing on the highest scoring team in the NHL. He may have more offensive potential than that, but it's pretty clear to me his skating issues have caused his game to evolve into a pure stay-at-home guy.

Yes, and that 23 points in the last 104 games is better than anything Scuderi has ever done. That also includes an uncharacteristically bad season this year. It's a nonsensical comparison, that's really what it comes down to.

 

[MrBrightside]

Yes, and that 23 points in the last 104 games is better than anything Scuderi has ever done. That also includes an uncharacteristically bad season this year. It's a nonsensical comparison, that's really what it comes down to.

Actually on a per game basis it's almost exactly what Scuderi did during his prime in seasons he had 15 and 16 points.

 

[JTG]

Actually on a per game basis it's almost exactly what Scuderi did during his prime in seasons he had 15 and 16 points.

Maatta has averaged 0.33 PPG in his career. Scuderi had half of that.

 

[MrBrightside]

Maatta has averaged 0.33 PPG in his career. Scuderi had half of that.

Sure. His first 2 years he averaged 0.39 PPG. His last 2 years he's averaged 0.22 PPG. If people really don't recognize that his offensive production fell off a cliff post-cancer, I really don't know what to tell you.

 

[MrBrightside]

You have to consider context. Cullen probably retires, Bones probably leaves via free agency. Maybe Sundqvist is a solid 3 or 4C, but we need him and another center next year. Where are we going to find a 3C in free agency without overpaying?

It's a consideration, sure, but I don't think they're planning on having Sundqvist be the 3C next year anyway. Or at least I would be very surprised if they are.

 

[JTG]

Sure. His first 2 years he averaged 0.39 PPG. His last 2 years he's averaged 0.22 PPG. If people really don't recognize that his offensive production fell off a cliff post-cancer, I really don't know what to tell you.

His production has tailed off, but I don't see it as a permanent thing. Last season was injury riddled. This season he started off shaky, but he has looked quite good defensively. His offensive game will come. He has more ability to move the puck in his big toe than Scuderi ever did. Scuderi's break out pass was a hard clear off the glass.

 

[SEALBound]

You and TIOPS ... it's literally been years since that guy had a scoop

I know but I can't help it! It's the only source for "Penguins rumors". It's like those tabloids at the grocery store. You want to know the secret lies and accusations that tore a celebrity couple apart...you just don't want to pay for it...nor believe it.

Young Scuderi is a fair comparison for the current Maatta.

How do you expect us to take you seriously if you won't even take yourself seriously? Come on dude, quit posting these trolling comments. You know that is not a true statement.

Sure. His first 2 years he averaged 0.39 PPG. His last 2 years he's averaged 0.22 PPG. If people really don't recognize that his offensive production fell off a cliff post-cancer, I really don't know what to tell you.

That doesn't mean his ability to be an effective top 4 dman for us has gone down. We don't live and die by the offensive stats (STATS) of Olli Maatta.

 

[MrBrightside]

That doesn't mean his ability to be an effective top 4 dman for us has gone down. We don't live and die by the offensive stats (STATS) of Olli Maatta.

I didn't say we did. I was just responding to comments that he's productive offensively. He's not. Can he still be a good defenseman and useful? Sure.

 

[MrBrightside]

His production has tailed off, but I don't see it as a permanent thing. Last season was injury riddled. This season he started off shaky, but he has looked quite good defensively. His offensive game will come. He has more ability to move the puck in his big toe than Scuderi ever did. Scuderi's break out pass was a hard clear off the glass.

Would people feel better about it if instead of comparing his offensive game to Rob Scuderi that it was compared to Brian Dumoulin?

 

[SEALBound]

Would people feel better about it if instead of comparing his offensive game to Rob Scuderi that it was compared to Brian Dumoulin?

Why are you so fixated on Maatta's offensive game?

What is your end game with this anti-Maatta agenda? Start the reply with "I want everyone to realize that Maatta ________".

I literally have no idea why you are on this tirade.

 

[MrBrightside]

Why are you so fixated on Maatta's offensive game?

What is your end game with this anti-Maatta agenda? Start the reply with "I want everyone to realize that Maatta ________".

I literally have no idea why you are on this tirade.

I'm not fixated and not on a tirade. I was responding to this post:

Maatta doesn't have limited offense, you have to have the memory of a rabbit to honestly think that. Maatta in an uncharacteristically bad year for him is producing not much less than what Scuderi produced at his best.

But it's all good. We cannot criticize any Penguin other than Kunitz, Fehr, or Fleury. Noted. Carry on.

 

[Shady Machine]

It's a consideration, sure, but I don't think they're planning on having Sundqvist be the 3C next year anyway. Or at least I would be very surprised if they are.

Okay so you traded Maatta and Sundqvist for Landy. Who slots in as 3C and 4C next year?

Landeskog-Crosby-Sheary
Guentzel-Malkin-Hornqvist
Hagelin-xxx-Kessel
Kuhnhackl-Fehr-Rust

Dumo-Letang
xxx-Schultz
Pouliot-Cole

Damn solid lineup but those are 2 very big holes to fill and not a lot of money to do it.

I love Sprong and don't want to trade him, but if I got Landeskog, I'd almost rather move Sprong and keep Sundqvist with that type of winger depth and lack of center depth.