League News: 2016-17 General NHL Fan Talk - Free Agency Fallout (News n' Scores n' Stuff)

[4thTierSport]

I don't like what is going on, but it is hard to scream for change when the Caps are plugging along at 2nd best team in the league rate. The parts are there unlike the Pens and Rags. I think the Caps have a far superior/balanced lineup. Rags' S% is starting to come down a bit and it is noticeable along the lack of their defense doing anything besides winging the puck up ice. Penguins and Habs are a goalie injury away from a serious standing decline.

I do think the line changing is almost comical at this point and does need to stop. Certain players need to either play through or be demoted and not screw everyone over. I love Sanford and he should be a NHL player very shortly, but I personally wouldn't mind seeing Malone take his spot for a bit. He will by no means help scoring but I think there would be a bit of a jolt of energy. Maybe Vrána, but I am not completely sold on his whole game at the NHL level yet. I also don't want to see him plugged into a spot that is not conducive to his play style.

Didn't the Preds also open up the wallet a bit more over the past two year?

The random discussion point that I've seen a few times is the best division in hockey. Pretty much everyone believes the Pacific is bad and the Atlantic has Habs, Bolts and maybe the Sens. Leaves the Metro and the perplexing Central bandwagon carrying into this year.

Obviously Hawks are still the Hawks and I would vote best team in the NHL currently but what is after that? Saint Louis is ok, but nothing stands out about them and their rocking a -1 GD. The Wild are surprising people but they are a BB team. Hate to say that about BB but nothing has been proved otherwise yet. Stars and Jets always come up to "strengthen" the division but they are both hot garbage. Bottom half of the league and maybe one in the bottom 5 at the end of the year garbage.

The Metro does have the Islanders but the Canes are the next team from the bottom and I would take them over Avs, Jets, Stars and maybe the Preds.

 

[Hivemind]

Not that i'm arguing too much into that since Laviolette is an offensive coach and Trotz is a defensive one, but they did Filip Forsberg full-time after Trotz left, and more recently Ryan Johansen. That's 2 of the 3 guys on their current 1st line. Kevin Fiala who was drafted after Trotz left is on their current 2nd line.

Laviolette has a much better team to work with than the one Trotz left behind in Nashville.

Trotz had Forsberg as well. A lot of Nashville fans credit Laviolette with Forsberg's breakout, and don't feel that Trotz was using him to the best of Forsberg's ability. Trotz's handling of young offensive forwards was a frequent criticism of Trotz by Preds fans during his tenure there.
I also wouldn't really credit Kevin Fiala with anything regarding Nashville's offensive breakout. Fiala is an NHL/AHL tweener at this point in his career, just starting to cut it in the NHL.

Even more to the point, Trotz had plenty of talent to work with during his tenure in Nashville. Not every team was a contender, but he certainly had a few opportunities. The team I reference most frequently is their 2007 roster, which was so stacked it had the luxury of deploying a point/game Peter Forsberg on the 3rd line.

 

[Hivemind]

The Metro does have the Islanders but the Canes are the next team from the bottom and I would take them over Avs, Jets, Stars and maybe the Preds.

What? The Stars are a goaldtender away from being one of the four or five best teams in the league, but you'd pick the Hurricanes ahead of them and The Predators?

 

[trick9]

Trotz had Forsberg as well. A lot of Nashville fans credit Laviolette with Forsberg's breakout, and don't feel that Trotz was using him to the best of Forsberg's ability. Trotz's handling of young offensive forwards was a frequent criticism of Trotz by Preds fans during his tenure there.
I also wouldn't really credit Kevin Fiala with anything regarding Nashville's offensive breakout. Fiala is an NHL/AHL tweener at this point in his career, just starting to cut it in the NHL.

Even more to the point, Trotz had plenty of talent to work with during his tenure in Nashville. Not every team was a contender, but he certainly had a few opportunities. The team I reference most frequently is their 2007 roster, which was so stacked it had the luxury of deploying a point/game Peter Forsberg on the 3rd line.

Forsberg was 19 when Trotz was fired. He was a NHL/AHL tweener just like Fiala is right now. Does Forsberg develop as well with Trotz as he did with Laviolette? Who knows.

I just really replied that the current team is offensively a much better one than the one Trotz left behind. I know Trotz had some good teams during his Predators days but the one he left behind is not among those. And it's not out of ordinary that when team adds 2 1st line forwards (or top-6, whatever) that their offense gets going aswell.

 

[Hivemind]

Forsberg was 19 when Trotz was fired. He was a NHL/AHL tweener just like Fiala is right now. Does Forsberg develop as well with Trotz as he did with Laviolette? Who knows.

I just really replied that the current team is offensively a much better one than the one Trotz left behind. I know Trotz had some good teams during his Predators days but the one he left behind is not among those. And it's not out of ordinary that when team adds 2 1st line forwards (or top-6, whatever) that their offense gets going aswell.

Forsberg may have been an NHL regular if Trotz allowed him to be one. He was good enough the Preds gave him a cup of coffee the year before. But Trotz was limiting him to just 9:28 of EVTOI/GP during 2013-14 and a mere 14.4 shifts per game, playing with guys like Eric Nystrom. By comparison, Laviolette is giving Fiala 11:20 EVTOI/GP and 17.8 shifts/game this season when he's in the NHL line-up, typically on a line with either Ribeiro or Johansen. Laviolette is deploying Fiala to his strengths and helping him develop offensively, while Trotz was playing Forsberg in a grinding role.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Brooks was coaching a bunch of amateur kids, not coddled professionals on the back 9 of their careers.

Coddled professionals on the back 9? Sorry you lost me. You're saying 8 and 19 are this?

 

[g00n]

Coddled professionals on the back 9? Sorry you lost me. You're saying 8 and 19 are this?

How many more years do you think they have? Doesn't the captain frequently skip optional team functions? Wasn't he benched for being late? Didn't Holtby JUST call out the veterans for being lazy, and isn't that what we're talking about?

Insert whatever descriptors here you want, they aren't kids prepping for the olympics. They're pros with a reputation for being too country club.

Regardless, bag skating the team is punishment. And a message.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Are 8 and 19 severely underperforming? Not sure that's who 70 was referring to honestly. I'd look at two other gaping back holes that exist before those two. Never denied it was a message, just that it's not some declaration that Trotz has lost the room or is having trouble communicating. It appears to be an organizational strategy to make it to the playoffs with reduced wear and tear. Hard to sweat guys every night with that type of message from the top down. And I'm a firm believer in maximum professional effort.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I don't think Trotz has lost the room. He is endorsed by #8 and #19, that keeps his authority intact. Regarding Holtby's comments, I don't think he was targeting individuals but the veteran leadership as a whole. Where's the hustle? They looked half asleep in most games this month. I understand that they can't go full steam all the time especially on the road or on back-to-back games, but damn, some players seem to treat these games as pre-season games.

Regarding 19, there's nothing to say about him. He's one of the few who's not playing below his usual level.

 

[txpd]

Regarding 19, there's nothing to say about him. He's one of the few who's not playing below his usual level.

few? 8, 19, 77. Any of them below their usual?
90, 83?

2 and 27 and 44 are not putting out? 88?
the goalies?

I think maybe there are a few that are not playing to their usual level and it only takes a few. But I don't think its the other way around.

we are really talking about 92, 65. 14 and 74. 20 who hasn't fit in yet.

 

[Langway]

Ovechkin isn't really playing at a high level. He's often a slow starter but to be their worst possession player is...not good. He's a really bad fit to play with 92 and 65 at this point. That line needs to go away.

2 and 27 have been up and down. 9's offense has dipped playing with 74. The PP on whole has been poor. Add in 92, 65, 14 and, oh, 82 and 43 and that's a lot of players underwhelming. I'd only give 90, 77, 83 and maybe 19 a pass. 19 wasn't that good either until the last couple weeks. On the one hand it's good to be where they are in the standings with so many individuals not performing as expected but it's also hard to gain momentum and confidence with so many players not performing at a high level offensively. They can grind games out--when they want to--but I don't get the sense they're all that mindful of what they're doing. They're kind of automatic in some ways, which may maintain efficiency but also impacts their ability to improvise when their typical level of play meets more resistance. When on they're a bit like a machine but the parts also need to be polished up now and then. Trotz seems to care a lot more about the former than the later.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Ovechkin is the least of this team's worries. He is doing what he is told to do and playing the minutes he is told to play. As tx said, 8, 19, 77, 90, and 83 are doing their jobs. As are 44, 88, 27, and 2. And Orlov most of the time. And, of course, the goalies. 14, 20, 26, 43, 92, 65, and 74 have been anchors.

I'm getting to the point where 92 and 65 need to go away. In my mind, they've run out of excuses. We're getting to the point where Kuznetsov has as big of a sample size as a fringe NHL player as he does as a rising star. They need to perform at a top 6 level, which means putting points on the board in addition to just driving possession, or they need to be shopped. If this was a young team coming into their window in a few years then I'd be ok with them figuring it out for a few more seasons but it's not. There isn't time for them to go through another season or two of growing pains and hope that they reach their potential.

 

[twabby]

I'm still shocked people think Burakovsky is playing poorly and want him gone given that:

1. He is 21 years old.
2. He's behind only Ovechkin and Backstrom in terms of even strength production.
3. He's shooting 5% on the year.

So you're done with a young guy who's gotten a little bit unlucky with his shots but is still producing at a good clip. Got it.

(The Kuznetsov criticism is valid, but I think there needs to be some criticism of the system as well as the player because it's clear to me that low-to-high doesn't fit his strengths.)

 

[g00n]

I expect more of Kuz than Bura given age and experience. Kuz is where Mojo was not long ago. New whipping boy status nearly confirmed if he doesn't pull out of it.

 

[RandyHolt]

Is it frowned upon to discuss why Ovi is our worst possession player, and the effect that has on the team? He does lead by example.

While he is not our biggest worry his play is nothing to ignore. He drives our team, and is one of the few to generate any energy. If energy is even still a thing.

I don't buy the slow starter excuse because its nothing more than effort.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I'm still shocked people think Burakovsky is playing poorly and want him gone given that:

1. He is 21 years old.
2. He's behind only Ovechkin and Backstrom in terms of even strength production.
3. He's shooting 5% on the year.

So you're done with a young guy who's gotten a little bit unlucky with his shots but is still producing at a good clip. Got it.

(The Kuznetsov criticism is valid, but I think there needs to be some criticism of the system as well as the player because it's clear to me that low-to-high doesn't fit his strengths.)

Like I said, if this team had a few years to let Burakovsky figure it out then I'd be all for it but the reality of the situation is that they do not. I like Burt and think he has a bright future but if they are truly "all-in" this year then he needs to produce. Burakovsky has 0 G and 6 A in his last 20 games. If you go back to last March, and include the playoffs and the start to this season, he has scored 7 goals in his past 53 games. He had 1 point in 13 games in the playoffs. That's simply not good enough for a guy whose primary job is to score goals. Do you disagree?

Or maybe it is Trotz/the system. The team has underperformed offensively since the ASG last year. Either way, something isn't working.

 

[twabby]

I'm not really sold on this being the final year of contention so I don't think any hasty moves need to be made, such as trading Burakovsky or Kuznetsov when their value is at their lowest.

Every forward's job is to score or create goals. He's still creating goals, even if his individual shots aren't going in. For a guy making ~$900k against the cap, he's doing his job, even if his shots aren't going in. The Capitals should have done a better job addressing the winger depth in the offseason so that Burakovsky's cold streak wouldn't be as noticeable because other guys would likely be producing. Instead, they acquired Brett Connolly and prayed Tom Wilson would somehow just gain offensive ability and instinct over the summer (to the tune of 1 point in 21 games so far). If you're looking for players to ship out, I'd start with Wilson.

 

[Hivemind]

Either we had half the forwards on the team forget how to play hockey simultaneously or Trotz hasn't been able to make the right strategic calls to gel with the team construction. Occam's Razor would seemingly suggest the latter.

 

[4thTierSport]

Is it frowned upon to discuss why Ovi is our worst possession player, and the effect that has on the team? He does lead by example.

While he is not our biggest worry his play is nothing to ignore. He drives our team, and is one of the few to generate any energy. If energy is even still a thing.

I don't buy the slow starter excuse because its nothing more than effort.

I do think Ovie is an issue but a smaller issue. I don't mind a "lack" of scoring, but his possession numbers are bad and he isn't rail roading people. I can live with some average possession numbers and scoring if he is running people off the ice which the team has clearly feed off before.

I think the bigger issues are Kuzy, Williams and lesser degree Carlson. Carlson has always had those streaks where you question what is going on. Normally he plays his way out and not too worried at this point. Kuzy is just not bringing anything at this point. Little flash here or there but nothing game changing. Williams isn't scoring and he seems to be taking a lot of and/or ill timed penalties.

I'm not as concerned about Burt yet. Combine the line shuffling and Twabby's comments and I'm ok. I'd be more concerned if the team picks up and he doesn't.

I liked when the lines were Ovie / Kuzy / Oshie, Burt / Back / Mojo, Sanford / Eller / Williams, and Winick / Beagle / Wilson. Maybe you move Willaims and Mojo, but role those lines and make them play through it.

 

[txpd]

I'm still shocked people think Burakovsky is playing poorly and want him gone given that:

1. He is 21 years old.
2. He's behind only Ovechkin and Backstrom in terms of even strength production.
3. He's shooting 5% on the year.

So you're done with a young guy who's gotten a little bit unlucky with his shots but is still producing at a good clip. Got it.

Done? I wouldn't trade him. I think its approaching time to do something about him.
NHL games are won by the team that scores the most goals. When one of your top 6 forwards, your source for goal scoring, hasn't scored a single goal in a quarter of a season, its a problem. He had like 2 goals in his final 20 plus games last season. In fact he had a ten game run in late Jan. Feb where he scored 8 goals. Since then he is not done very much at all.

So Burt's problems are not 20 games old. they are 50 games old

 

[twabby]

I'd put him back on the tre kronor line where he can thrive as the primary trigger man and play alongside two forwards who are playing confident hockey.

And as soon as Oshie is able to return, I'd go back to 8-92-77 as a second line because that is where Kuzy has played his best hockey.

 

[RandyHolt]

I do think Ovie is an issue but a smaller issue. I don't mind a "lack" of scoring, but his possession numbers are bad and he isn't rail roading people. I can live with some average possession numbers and scoring if he is running people off the ice which the team has clearly feed off before.

....

Good stuff as usual LGB. I think what gets me is the hitting is not there. When he starts hitting, the rest follow, and its obvious the guys out there are not just going through the motions to get a paycheck. I didn't expect him to hit like a tank until the end of time, but thought we would make it through this year.

The team just seems off right now, and its more than radical line shuffles can explain. We just look burned out, exhausted. I know we are saving it up to hit the switch later, but is that even Barry's directive.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm still shocked people think Burakovsky is playing poorly and want him gone given that:

1. He is 21 years old.
2. He's behind only Ovechkin and Backstrom in terms of even strength production.
3. He's shooting 5% on the year.

So you're done with a young guy who's gotten a little bit unlucky with his shots but is still producing at a good clip. Got it.

(The Kuznetsov criticism is valid, but I think there needs to be some criticism of the system as well as the player because it's clear to me that low-to-high doesn't fit his strengths.)

I'm 100% behind the kid. I think he's going to turn into a really good player. I hate seeing his name tossed around here as trade fodder.

Re: 92, so if the one player can't play the system the team plays, effectively, what, trade him, change the whole system to accommodate one guy? I honestly don't know what they do.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Is it frowned upon to discuss why Ovi is our worst possession player, and the effect that has on the team? He does lead by example.

While he is not our biggest worry his play is nothing to ignore. He drives our team, and is one of the few to generate any energy. If energy is even still a thing.

I don't buy the slow starter excuse because its nothing more than effort.

I think his game is slowly slipping away. Age and apathy. He'll still score with the shot he has, but he's no longer a tone setter in games. Maybe it's the origination's marching order for him to not go out and throw around his body much?

 

[Hivemind]

Kuznetsov is far from the only player on this team floundering in this system. Ovechkin has negative possession numbers. Justin Williams is imploding. Eller hasn't produced offensively and is racking up penalties. Connolly, Sanford, and Burakovsky aren't providing any depth scoring at this point. Outside of Alzner, none of the defensemen are scoring.

In fact, the list of players who are succeeding in this system is much shorter than those who are not. Johansson, Oshie, Backstrom, and Beagle appear to be the only players comfortable in this low-high scheme.