Proposal: 2015 Offseason Trade Rumours and Proposals | Part IV | 8 days to Draft

[OgieO]

Move Gryba; re-sign Wideman
Move whichever of Cowen or PDub returns the most in a trade. My guess would be Cowen (?)

Methot-EK
PW-Ceci
Boro-Wideman
Phillips

Not sexy, but good mix of guys that can move the puck, play the body and help puck possessions. Risk is that it hinges in PW & Ceci developing one more step (reasonable, imo) and Wideman being a capable #6.

Not sure you have enough for the PK though, but that scenario maximizes our current assets imo.

 

[guyzeur]

If you traded Legs and Lehner for Daley you probably have the pieces to make a deal for two offensive upgrades

Wiercioch + 1st(2016) + Michalek

Chiasson + Prince + 2nd (2015)

one of our 2015 2nds could be added in there to make a deal happen. Looking at guys like Eriksson Oshie or my hopeful ROR.

Adding Michalek to the bolded doesn't help this trade.

Wiercioch + 1st(2016) + Prince/Chiasson is a better option

apparently backes is available, i would much rather have him than o'reilly

Backes
Turris
Zibby
Pageau

that looks amazing

If Backes plays LW he'd be perfect

Hoffman-Zibanejad-Ryan
Backes-Turris-Stone
MacArthur-Pageau-Lazar

Ohhhhhhh baby.

Can you imagine dat second/1st line just crushing, stealing and defending the opposition?

I really feel like Turris must have 2 big body wingers in order for him to be accepted as a 1st line C and it makes up for his lack of size and high end scoring. Just like in Boston.

I agree with Turris having two big wingers.

Why not adding Backes and ROR

Gryba is a prime candidate to be moved

He's a rock solid bottom pairing RHD dman, lots of teams want those

He is being thrown under the bus way too often for a 6th D.

Lots of teams want those and we will be looking for one when he's gone.

 

[The Jangle Meister*]

Adding Michalek to the bolded doesn't help this trade.

Wiercioch + 1st(2016) + Prince/Chiasson is a better option

That works for me, decent trade chips imo.

 

[BonkTastic]

So here's the thing about trading Gryba, at least as far as I can tell: he's not a very good hockey player, but the onlything he does reasonably well - pk on the right side - he does fairly well at. If we replace him with a guy like Wideman, who is going to PK the right side of the blueline? Ceci's not ready for 1st unit pk time, and Karlsson cant play 35 mins/ night.

This is where I'm stuck. I really want to replace Gryba, but it's not enough to just say "this guy has more skill"... we need to replace that role.

 

[The Jangle Meister*]

Is Legwand not worth a 4th round pick to anyone ? His deal isn't that bad, one year left, and he can still contribute in all facets.

If they can trade legwand and dump Greening with Lehner, the $$ to sign the RFA's gets much easier.

Also, no offense to Condra, but it's tough to contemplate much of a raise from his $1.25M when Pageau signed for $900K. Different guys and skillsets, but still basically the same tier of player. It would be a mistake to give Condra a material raise.

well ive basically had some discussions with Dallas fans for Lehner + Legwand for Daley + 4th

 

[WhiteLight*]

So here's the thing about trading Gryba, at least as far as I can tell: he's not a very good hockey player, but the onlything he does reasonably well - pk on the right side - he does fairly well at. If we replace him with a guy like Wideman, who is going to PK the right side of the blueline? Ceci's not ready for 1st unit pk time, and Karlsson cant play 35 mins/ night.

This is where I'm stuck. I really want to replace Gryba, but it's not enough to just say "this guy has more skill"... we need to replace that role.

Methot, Boro, Cowen, Ceci. That's 4.

Or reduce Karlsson's PP minutes.

Or teach Wiercioch. He looked good in his limited PK minutes last year.



Having a player that can only do one thing is bad imo. Like a pure enforcer. Not good.

 

[Boud]

Methot, Boro, Cowen, Ceci. That's 4.

Or reduce Karlsson's PP minutes.

Or teach Wiercioch. He looked good in his limited PK minutes last year.



Having a player that can only do one thing is bad imo. Like a pure enforcer. Not good.

The point he was trying to make is none of these guys play the right side other than Ceci and Ceci is not a guy you put on a 1rst PK unit yet. It's already tough to play on your off side, nevermind playing PK and doing gap control on your opposite side when your outnumbered. Wideman can't play PK, I'm not sure I want to have Karlsson blocking shots and playing even more than he's already doing so if we deal Gryba we essentially need to find another guy who can PK on the right or hope the best with one of our LD which is not the best option.

And Gryba is a fine 6th Dman, he's a 3rd pairing guy who play 14-15 minutes a night can't expect him to be a top 4 dman. If you want a guy that can play PP, Pk, is solid defensively and can make a 1rst pass your looking at a 3-4M guy to play on your 3rd pair... need to be realistic.

 

[Laoghaire]

So here's the thing about trading Gryba, at least as far as I can tell: he's not a very good hockey player, but the onlything he does reasonably well - pk on the right side - he does fairly well at. If we replace him with a guy like Wideman, who is going to PK the right side of the blueline? Ceci's not ready for 1st unit pk time, and Karlsson cant play 35 mins/ night.

This is where I'm stuck. I really want to replace Gryba, but it's not enough to just say "this guy has more skill"... we need to replace that role.

2 minutes of PK time per game isn't worth the drop in play for the other 15ish at evens. Also, we can just run our PK different and rotate coverage. Gryba's main asset wasn't the ability to cover the RD space but to cover in front of the net. It's much better to have the LD do that so he can cover RW's coming down their side. Especially because the strength of RWs in the league is significantly higher than LW.

 

[BonkTastic]

Having a player that can only do one thing is bad imo. Like a pure enforcer. Not good.

I agree, but putting a player in a position to fail is worse.

Asking Wiercioch to play 1st unit PK duty on his off-side is suicidal. I mean, if the goal here is to reduce his confidence to record low levels, then by all means this is an excellent plan.

Wier finally found his confidence in the last 30 games of last season. We need for him to build off of that, not push him 10 steps in the wrong direction.

 

[WhiteLight*]

The point he was trying to make is none of these guys play the right side other than Ceci and Ceci is not a guy you put on a 1rst PK unit yet. It's already tough to play on your off side, nevermind playing PK and doing gap control on your opposite side when your outnumbered. Wideman can't play PK, I'm not sure I want to have Karlsson blocking shots and playing even more than he's already doing so if we deal Gryba we essentially need to find another guy who can PK on the right or hope the best with one of our LD which is not the best option.

Methot and Boro can play the right easily.

I see Ceci often ending up on the left side for whatever reason when he's out there. It's really not that big of deal, especially for mobile guys like Boro and Methot.

This is far from the first time it would happen. Detroit has gone years without a single right handed shot. Too much emphasis is being put on this.

 

[WhiteLight*]

I agree, but putting a player in a position to fail is worse.

Asking Wiercioch to play 1st unit PK duty on his off-side is suicidal. I mean, if the goal here is to reduce his confidence to record low levels, then by all means this is an excellent plan.

Wier finally found his confidence in the last 30 games of last season. We need for him to build off of that, not push him 10 steps in the wrong direction.

That's not what I said.


Methot - Boro
Wier - Ceci


Wier doesn't have to play #1 RD. Come on now

 

[God Says No]

To all the posters who are ready to get rid of Gryba. I'd like for you to consider who will play on the right side if we move him. Before you say Wideman, consider he hasn't played in the NHL just yet. What if he fails? What do we do then? Play Boro on the off side? Where he played a couple games and hasn't been played again?

We can't move Gryba, unless we have a solid backup plan for third pairing RHD. Actually, Gryba should be the backup plan in an optimal scenario.

 

[God Says No]

Methot and Boro can play the right easily.

Then why haven't they been played there more frequently? I see a couple of guys who can step in and play the right side if they have to for a game or two, but can't be relied to play there effectively for the whole season. Unless some magical development has been made recently.

 

[BonkTastic]

That's not what I said.


Methot - Boro
Wier - Ceci


Wier doesn't have to play #1 RD. Come on now

Oh, ok.

You didn't specify that in your post. I just made the assumption that when you brought up Wier, it was as a replacement for Gryba's role on the PK, since I was talking about finding a replacement for Gryba's role on the PK on the PK.

 

[Max Power]

Things change, players attitudes in particular I think this is why we are seeing this develop the way it has.

Sure, but I have seen no evidence of this. The whole stick banging thing was the closest thing, and that was blown completely out of proportion.

In fact, everything in front of the camera has been professional and well spoken so far.

So I don't believe that's the problem

 

[BonkTastic]

Detroit has gone years without a single right handed shot. Too much emphasis is being put on this.

It's not about what side they shoot on, it's about what side they feel comfortable playing. Some lefty shots feel comfortable playing the righ side. Many more are far less effective on their off side.

 

[WhiteLight*]

To all the posters who are ready to get rid of Gryba. I'd like for you to consider who will play on the right side if we move him. Before you say Wideman, consider he hasn't played in the NHL just yet. What if he fails? What do we do then? Play Boro on the off side? Where he played a couple games and hasn't been played again?

We can't move Gryba, unless we have a solid backup plan for third pairing RHD. Actually, Gryba should be the backup plan in an optimal scenario.

So no prospect would make the jump to the NHL ever under you're scenario?

Prince should not be given a shot because he is unproven? Why was Lazar handed a spot in training camp? He has no experience.


The reality is when you have good prospects, you have to make room for them. It's really that simple. NHL teams carry 7 or 8 D. It's not a bad thing to leave one of those spots available to be won in training camp by a prospect.

Because, if you don't, you'll never improve your team. You'll be keeping a bad player (Gryba) over a potentiaally good one (Wideman) without giving the good one a shot.

Karlsson, Methot, Wiercioch, Cowen, Ceci, Borowiecki. That's 6. Wideman can take the 7 spot. If Wideman backfires, there are still 6 proven guys. The Sens can toss a 3rd rounder to a team for a vet 3rd pair guy if need be. No big deal.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Oh, ok.

You didn't specify that in your post. I just made the assumption that when you brought up Wier, it was as a replacement for Gryba's role on the PK, since I was talking about finding a replacement for Gryba's role on the PK on the PK.

OK. I thought it was implied that the better PK guys would play a bigger role than the PK noob Wiercioch. My bad.

Then why haven't they been played there more frequently? I see a couple of guys who can step in and play the right side if they have to for a game or two, but can't be relied to play there effectively for the whole season. Unless some magical development has been made recently.

because they had Gryba.... who was outplaying Phillips and Cowen. So 3 LD were in the lineup and 3 RD were in the lineup. There was no reason to play them on the right side.

It's not about what side they shoot on, it's about what side they feel comfortable playing. Some lefty shots feel comfortable playing the righ side. Many more are far less effective on their off side.

Sure, but they can also learn to play on their off-side. I'm sure Ericsson and whoever else plays RD in Detroit weren't all career RD.

What I am saying is that Boro and Methot have the skill sets to play their off-side. Wiercioch not so much.

 

[God Says No]

So no prospect would make the jump to the NHL ever under you're scenario?

Prince should not be given a shot because he is unproven? Why was Lazar handed a spot in training camp? He has no experience.


The reality is when you have good prospects, you have to make room for them. It's really that simple. NHL teams carry 7 or 8 D. It's not a bad thing to leave one of those spots available to be won in training camp by a prospect.

Because, if you don't, you'll never improve your team. You'll be keeping a bad player (Gryba) over a potentiaally good one (Wideman) without giving the good one a shot.

Karlsson, Methot, Wiercioch, Cowen, Ceci, Borowiecki. That's 6. Wideman can take the 7 spot. If Wideman backfires, there are still 6 proven guys. The Sens can toss a 3rd rounder to a team for a vet 3rd pair guy if need be. No big deal.

Hey man, I'm all for bringing in the young guys. Just go through my post history. If a young player is outplaying a vet I have no issues with him slotting into the lineup. But you also need a backup plan. A solid backup plan. Not sure tossing a 3rd out there and hoping you fish a D is a good plan.

What I would do is keep Gryba as he is more than serviceable 6/7 that plays on the right side, and try Wideman. If Wideman crashes and burns, you still got Gryba. If Gryba is gone, you have to either break up Methot-Karl pairing so that Methot has to play the right side, or hope that Boro can play there effectively for the whole season. Another gamble.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Hey man, I'm all for bringing in the young guys. Just go through my post history. If a young player is outplaying a vet I have no issues with him slotting into the lineup. But you also need a backup plan. A solid backup plan. Not sure tossing a 3rd out there and hoping you fish a D is a good plan.

To be honest, I think it's a decent plan lol. Plus, there is always waivers. A guy like Schlemko was on waivers last year - he can play both sides and is effective on the bottom pair. I think there's always lower end guys available.

What I would do is keep Gryba as he is more than serviceable 6/7 that plays on the right side, and try Wideman. If Wideman crashes and burns, you still got Gryba. If Gryba is gone, you have to either break up Methot-Karl pairing so that Methot has to play the right side, or hope that Boro can play there effectively for the whole season. Another gamble.

Well that's ok too. Roll with 8 D. I'm ok with that, as long as Wideman gets his shot and doesn'T sit in the press box.

 

[derriko]

Im not sure handedness is a factor on the PK. The issue with that is usually passing and vision, and on the pk you are just icing the puck as soon as you have it.

Also, half the time your following someone around the boards and end up on your off side anyways.

I think Methot with Boro, Ceci, Cowen, and then Karlsson used sparingly would be just fine.

 

[God Says No]

Well that's ok too. Roll with 8 D. I'm ok with that, as long as Wideman gets his shot and doesn'T sit in the press box.

Yeah, that means one D has to go. I'm hoping that D is Phillips. We keep 8 D like last year, which gives us flexibility to move players in and out as they struggle/injure.

I think my plan is much better and safer then just jettisoning Gryba which is slightly underrated here. He has solid games.

 

[God Says No]

Im not sure handedness is a factor on the PK. The issue with that is usually passing and vision, and on the pk you are just icing the puck as soon as you have it.

It has a factor when you are trying to get the puck out of the zone. I don't want to see Phillips/Boro/Gryba trying to do a weakass backhand when clearing the zone.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Im not sure handedness is a factor on the PK. The issue with that is usually passing and vision, and on the pk you are just icing the puck as soon as you have it.

Also, half the time your following someone around the boards and end up on your off side anyways.

I think Methot with Boro, Ceci, Cowen, and then Karlsson used sparingly would be just fine.

Agreed. I think it's a non issue

Yeah, that means one D has to go. I'm hoping that D is Phillips. We keep 8 D like last year, which gives us flexibility to move players in and out as they struggle/injure.

I think my plan is much better and safer then just jettisoning Gryba which is slightly underrated here. He has solid games.

There is no scenario where keeping Phillips on the roster works. It's bad all around. Something must be done.


I agree that Gryba can be effective sometimes. He really knows what to do defensively and uses his size and strength effectively. He can be effective. But, 2 things

- I think he needs a specific kind of partner to be effective. He wouldn't be able to be the Methot to a Karlsson, for example. Some who is mobile and is doesn't jump into the play too often.
- I think he'd be good in a system like LA, where's it's meat and potatoes and they work as a unit and support each other a lot. Other than that, the most effective D in the game today can skate the puck and move the puck. It's an extremely limiting factor when someone can't do that. We want GOOD players, not simply solid players.

 

[WhiteLight*]

It has a factor when you are trying to get the puck out of the zone. I don't want to see Phillips/Boro/Gryba trying to do a weakass backhand when clearing the zone.

I'd trust Boro to do it.

Phillips and Gryba not so much. Hence why they should be gone