2015 NHL redraft

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

So Marner is being praised for about the same pace for half a season that Barzal put up in an entire season?

yes, and then continued it into the playoffs. that's why it's dumb to pretend Barzal is on his own tier because he had a better first half of the season this year

 

[MardyBum]

In a 5 second google, Marner had 39 points in his final 41 games, Barzal had 49 in 41, or something close to that. Just quickly counted out 41 games and added it up. 17 PPP for Marner, 15 for Barzal.

 

[CodeE]

The expectations on Matthews were that of a franchise player a clear cut #1 centre, tell me that’s what Barzal’s expectations were when we he got drafted. Good on the kid that he proved some doubters wrong but it still doesn’t equate that the level he played at this season will be the norm. Plenty of anomalies happened in the NHL this season, his two teammates were one example and then you look at how 10 and 20 point players previously turned into 40 and near 80 point players for Vegas this year.

Absolutely.

After a player gets drafted, traditionally a thread about that player starts on the team forum. Here are my first two posts in the first Barzal thread on HFIsles:

McKenzie had Barzal at 9
ISS had him at 8

Most scouts agree that if it wasn't for his injury he would have been up there with Strome & Marner.

If you're not hyped now you will soon be hyped.

Make no mistake Isles fans. Barzal is a core piece moving forward.

Fast forward to this summer. Duchene is rumored to be coveted by the Islanders, who need a #2C. I spent the entire summer insisting Barzal would be a stud player for us, and I wasn't interested at all in moving him, which really angered and upset Avs fans who called me a delusional homer for thinking Barzal would ever (in his career) reach Duchene's level. Held my ground again.

Myself and many other (not all) Islander fans have been tremendously high on Mat Barzal since the second his name emerged from Snow's lips at the draft. Just because you weren't paying attention doesn't mean it never happened.

 

[Riseonfire]

The expectations on Matthews were that of a franchise player a clear cut #1 centre, tell me that’s what Barzal’s expectations were when we he got drafted. Good on the kid that he proved some doubters wrong but it still doesn’t equate that the level he played at this season will be the norm. Plenty of anomalies happened in the NHL this season, his two teammates were one example and then you look at how 10 and 20 point players previously turned into 40 and near 80 point players for Vegas this year.

What you really said there was that you let draft bias sway you more than anything else.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Barzal had 85 points including 3 5 point games.. in his rookie season. Marner is nowhere even close to his level. How are leafs fans even debating this?

Because apparently two seasons of 60+ points are more impressive than one season of 80+ points.

 

[DKH]

Would Chuck Kobasew be a decent comparison for Senyshyn? That's not an insult.
I really liked Kobasew and he's the kinda player you need on your team and if you could walk out of a draft getting a player like him in the middle of the first round, you take that all day.
Kobasew put up some big numbers in juniors (if memory serves) before becoming that north-south energy 3rd liner with some scoring touch in the NHL.

That is pretty good - I saw Kobesaw at BC and a lot during the lock out when he was at Lowell playing on a line with Eric Staal.

Senyshyn has been declared a bust by the Hockey geniuses before his 21st birthday.

The Bruins instituted a plan for Zboril & Senyshyn designed to work on areas they would need to be better at in the NHL - they did the same with DeBrusk & Heinen last year.

As a parent of 2 I learned you don't declare people busts at age 20

 

[lomiller1]

Matthews was drafted in 2016 too and I'm still seeing Islanders fans bringing him up

yeah but he was born in the same year as most of the players in the 2015 draft. I have it on good authority (Leaf fans told me) that birth year is all that really matters and draft year is irrelevant.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

What you really said there was that you let draft bias sway you more than anything else.

Well the Bruins passed on him 3 times and he went mid-first round so obviously plenty of teams saw issues...

 

[LordNeverLose]

Well the Bruins passed on him 3 times and he went mid-first round so obviously plenty of teams saw issues...

Yes, and clearly that was a great decision that no one associated with the organization regrets

 

[Laineux]

There's nothing particularly unsustainable about Barzal's production. And just a simple eye test should tell you that he's one of the most offensively talented guys in the league.

 

[WangMustGo]

yes, and then continued it into the playoffs. that's why it's dumb to pretend Barzal is on his own tier because he had a better first half of the season this year

Marner can't hold Barzals jock. Enough with this crap. Marner is a very good young player, but until he carries a line to 80+ points he shouldn't be considered in the same tier as Barzal. Matthews and Barzal are far more compareable than Barzal and Marner.

 

[LeafFever]

Marner can't hold Barzals jock. Enough with this crap. Marner is a very good young player, but until he carries a line to 80+ points he shouldn't be considered in the same tier as Barzal. Matthews and Barzal are far more compareable than Barzal and Marner.

Following stats is not the only way to judge players, or so I have been told repeatedly on here. The idea Barzal is now viewed as better than Matthews and Laine just because of 85 points is ridiculous.

 

[WangMustGo]

Following stats is not the only way to judge players, or so I have been told repeatedly on here. The idea Barzal is now viewed as better than Matthews and Laine just because of 85 points is ridiculous.

I said compareable, but it's quite obvious your reading comprehension is lacking.

When stats are so hugely favoring one player, it's most likely that one player is better than the other. Just like in this case. Barzal is better than Marner, and only Leaf fans would try to say otherwise.

 

[LemonSauceD]

yes, and then continued it into the playoffs. that's why it's dumb to pretend Barzal is on his own tier because he had a better first half of the season this year

read the post below your comment.

 

[Laineux]

Following stats is not the only way to judge players, or so I have been told repeatedly on here. The idea Barzal is now viewed as better than Matthews and Laine just because of 85 points is ridiculous.

What is ridiculous is scoring 85 points as a rookie. And whether he is better or not, Barzal is definitely more flashy than Matthews or Laine. Eye-test certainly doesn't work against him.

 

[Tripod]

This thread had just turned into a Marner/Barzal thread.

Reality is, Barzal hit numbers that Marner has not yet. Both are great young kids. Edge to Barzal due to doing it vs shoulda/coulda/woulda from Marner.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

In a 5 second google, Marner had 39 points in his final 41 games, Barzal had 49 in 41, or something close to that. Just quickly counted out 41 games and added it up. 17 PPP for Marner, 15 for Barzal.

Math is not on their side of the argument. But as I pointed out. P/60, even strength points, bigger season samplings, and actual points all favour Barzal > Marner. And when a rookie Center does this over a sophomore winger. It just punctuates the point more.

In a redraft at this point in time. Barzal is higher than Marner.

The only 2 points Marner has over Barzal are he was picked 12 slots higher and that he has more PPP. But these are not particularly good points in placing a player higher in a redraft.

 

[VasilyHoglander]

That’s a ridiculous argument to make especially when you look at what Marner did in the OHL, the numbers aren’t even close. Peewee lol please...

You're forgetting that Marner played on the knights and Seattle is nowhere near them in terms of talents. They had cliff pu has a depth forward...he would be on the first line with Barzal in Seattle. They had a tournament for all the top prospect 1 year before draft and it was Barzal captaining team Taylor Hall and Mcdavid captaining the other team. If you actually watch Barzal in the NHL this year. There shouldn't even be a comparison between Marner and Barzal. Barzal is clearly the better player.

 

[Strait2thecup]

wait.. so marner had 39 points in 41 games to end the season and were being told he scored at a 100 point pace? interesting

 

[WangMustGo]

wait.. so marner had 39 points in 41 games to end the season and were being told he scored at a 100 point pace? interesting

Actually Marner scored at a 150 point pace if you remove the games he only had 1 point or less in. Marner=God

 

[DKH]

I don't have a player in this but they are pretty even - if I want a wing I take Marner or a center Barzal.

I am a Boston fan and I'd personally rather have Marner but others feel differently.

They are both exciting and you can't go wrong with either.

 

[22FUTON9]

Telling people who think Barzals better to not stat watch is probably the dumbest thing you can say. I honestly don't understand how someone can watch them bothh and be like "meh, Marner's better" For the record I've said it many times but I like Marner and really believe he's the number 4 or 5 forward out of this draft class along with rantanen. He's a tier below Barzal though. The stats argument favors Barzal. The eye test argument favors Barzal even more.

 

[Tripod]

Telling people who think Barzals better to not stat watch is probably the dumbest thing you can say. I honestly don't understand how someone can watch them bothh and be like "meh, Marner's better" For the record I've said it many times but I like Marner and really believe he's the number 4 or 5 forward out of this draft class along with rantanen. He's a tier below Barzal though. The stats argument favors Barzal. The eye test argument favors Barzal even more.

Agreed.

It is no "diss" to Marner. I have stated many times that myself and other Flyers fans have compared him to Giroux. Would that be so bad?

And this list will always be changing. Today, it's Barzal over Marner. If Marner beats him in points next year, it likely changes.

Some people are just too stubborn to acknowledge that there are lots of great players from this draft and their 'guy" got passed by another this year. Next year, it could be different.

 

[Riseonfire]

Well the Bruins passed on him 3 times and he went mid-first round so obviously plenty of teams saw issues...

but the Bruins look like f***ing idiots right now.....

 

[sabremike]

Well the Bruins passed on him 3 times and he went mid-first round so obviously plenty of teams saw issues...

They fell into the trap of buying into the narative instead of seeing the obvious talent right in front of them. A perfect example of that happening in the last draft was how Casey fell into our laps like manna from heaven because he couldn't do a pull up. Teams harped on that and ignored the incredible talent.