2015 Draft Thread "McEichel" Part 3

[ZeroPT*]

40-50 for Eichel
55+ for McMessiah

 

[sabrebuild]

What kind of impact do you all see McDavid and Eichel having next year in the NHL? I see lots of comparisons between McDavid's and Sid's CHL totals, but Crosby walked into the NHL at 18 and put up 102 points. He was instantly a top-5 player in the world. I still can't wrap my head around really how good he was right out of the gate...

I don't see any 18-year-old coming close to that for a long, long time.

I'm going to say McDavid could put up 55-60, which is still damn good for a rookie.

Different league from when Crosby came in. Less pp time, more interference and point totals league wide are down from the first couple years post-lockout. I would bet McDavid and Eichel are similarly effective as Ovy and Sid, but the point totals will be lower. Something like McDavid at 80 pts, Eichel at 70 pts with more goals.

 

[HOOats]

So Eichel is listed at 6'2 194. Does anyone have a sense of his actual build? Any idea what he projects to play at in his prime? There's a big difference between 6'1 200 and 6'3 220.

The difference in size between he and McD seems to get partially glossed over, but I'm not convinced it makes Eichel the better prospect. While it may not be present at this age and in the NCAA, I can imagine him developing a decent "nasty" factor when combining his competitive (Masshol-e) personality and his physicality. Adding that to his skill set would make him the rarest of players.

 

[sabrebuild]

40-50 for Eichel
55+ for McMessiah

Why so low? Lesser prospects have put up better numbers than that recently.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Why so low? Lesser prospects have put up better numbers than that recently.

I don't like point projections for rookies.

 

[sabrebuild]

So Eichel is listed at 6'2 194. Does anyone have a sense of his actual build? Any idea what he projects to play at in his prime? There's a big difference between 6'1 200 and 6'3 220.

The difference in size between he and McD seems to get partially glossed over, but I'm not convinced it makes Eichel the better prospect. While it may not be present at this age and in the NCAA, I can imagine him developing a decent "nasty" factor when combining his competitive (Masshol-e) personality and his physicality. Adding that to his skill set would make him the rarest of players.

I would be surprised if he ever becomes a big hitter or nasty in the NHL. I think the number you listed for his size is pretty close to legit, and to some degree I think he is carrying close to his mature playing weight already. He seems pretty filled out, I wouldn't bet on him putting on a ton of weight in the NHL.

 

[sabrebuild]

I don't like point projections for rookies.

Fair enough, but wouldn't that indicate silence more so than an overly conservative number? I mean if McDavid ends up with 55 pts without missing a lot of games I would be stunned. Even more so than Eichel, he will literally undress NHL defenses with that skating.

 

[Samsonite23]

So Eichel is listed at 6'2 194. Does anyone have a sense of his actual build? Any idea what he projects to play at in his prime? There's a big difference between 6'1 200 and 6'3 220.

The difference in size between he and McD seems to get partially glossed over, but I'm not convinced it makes Eichel the better prospect. While it may not be present at this age and in the NCAA, I can imagine him developing a decent "nasty" factor when combining his competitive (Masshol-e) personality and his physicality. Adding that to his skill set would make him the rarest of players.

He's already got a bit of a nasty side. And he's going to be really strong. I doubt that he ever turns into a consistent hitter though, like someone said above.

 

[HOOats]

He's already got a bit of a nasty side. And he's going to be really strong. I doubt that he ever turns into a consistent hitter though, like someone said above.

Agreed, I never brought up hitting myself that was the other gentleman sabrebuild.

Agreed also on his potential for strength. He seems pretty slim in his build still with his long arms, nowhere near carrying his fully-developed size.

I see the same roots of a nasty side. He's not going to be Mark Messier obviously, but a leader and a scoring star who wants to and is able to handle himself in front of the net before and after the whistle is quite rare.

 

[sabrebuild]

Agreed, I never brought up hitting myself that was the other gentleman sabrebuild.

Agreed also on his potential for strength. He seems pretty slim in his build still with his long arms, nowhere near carrying his fully-developed size.

I see the same roots of a nasty side. He's not going to be Mark Messier obviously, but a leader and a scoring star who wants to and is able to handle himself in front of the net before and after the whistle is quite rare.

Ya I don't think he is soft or anything. On his size maybe I misjudged a few of the shots I saw of him out of his gear and he looked like a pretty muscular kid for his age. Maybe he gets to 225-230 but that is a lot of weight for a guy his height.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Fair enough, but wouldn't that indicate silence more so than an overly conservative number? I mean if McDavid ends up with 55 pts without missing a lot of games I would be stunned. Even more so than Eichel, he will literally undress NHL defenses with that skating.

55 points is legitimate 2nd line production. If that would shock you that means you think he's going into ~ppg territory?

Mackinnon was dominant in his rookie year and got 63

 

[couture23]

55 points is legitimate 2nd line production. If that would shock you that means you think he's going into ~ppg territory?

Mackinnon was dominant in his rookie year and got 63

Also because Colorado was firing on all cylinders last year

We won't even be close to that.

 

[Sabre the Win]

55 points is legitimate 2nd line production. If that would shock you that means you think he's going into ~ppg territory?

Mackinnon was dominant in his rookie year and got 63

They also had him at wing last year. Easier position to play.

 

[sabrebuild]

55 points is legitimate 2nd line production. If that would shock you that means you think he's going into ~ppg territory?

Mackinnon was dominant in his rookie year and got 63

Ya I understand that Colorado put him in a perfect position to succeed, and Mack had a great rookie year, but I think McDavid is on a whole different level offensively. I mean he has the same level if not better of skating as Mackinnon, and his offensive game is just superior.

I think if we get him for example, he could be playing with Girgs and Ennis. If he gets first line with them on a wing or at center with top pp time, he is gonna put up stupid numbers.

If he goes to Edmonton he is definitely getting either Eberle or Hall on his wing, at least 2nd pp minutes and is sheltered from taking number one center matchups in the West.

Arizona is one of the few teams that he might struggle to score 75 pts or so due to weak offensive help, but Boedker and Doan will still make a quality first line.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

I see Kylington and Provorov are rated 11 & 12 in McKenzie's rankings. I would trade NYI and StL 1st plus whatever else to get one of them.

 

[1972]

FYI Bob McKenzie basically said this...

Barzal is 10 but has alot of same attributes as RNH

Basically called him at lock for the top 10 and that his ranking can only improve.

 

[sabrebuild]

Has Barzal started playing yet.

 

[Zaddy]

Has Barzal started playing yet.

Yes. He's been back for about 4 games but haven't put up any points iirc. Reports are that he's been playing well despite not scoring.

 

[Zip15]

Why so low? Lesser prospects have put up better numbers than that recently.

Few have walked into this horrific of an offensive situation. Ponder this: Drew Stafford has led the team in ES pts/60 (min. 20 gms) for two consecutive seasons and 90% of projected rosters don't have him on the team next year. It's going to be tough going for either next year.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Ya I understand that Colorado put him in a perfect position to succeed, and Mack had a great rookie year, but I think McDavid is on a whole different level offensively. I mean he has the same level if not better of skating as Mackinnon, and his offensive game is just superior.

I think if we get him for example, he could be playing with Girgs and Ennis. If he gets first line with them on a wing or at center with top pp time, he is gonna put up stupid numbers.

If he goes to Edmonton he is definitely getting either Eberle or Hall on his wing, at least 2nd pp minutes and is sheltered from taking number one center matchups in the West.

Arizona is one of the few teams that he might struggle to score 75 pts or so due to weak offensive help, but Boedker and Doan will still make a quality first line.

I think you're overrating McEichel's ability to walk into the situation and score over 50 points.

 

[30Yonge]

Something like McDavid at 80 pts, Eichel at 70 pts with more goals.

Last season 80 points was 6th in scoring and there is no way McEichel puts up that many points in Buffalo next season.

Stamkos 46 Tavares 54 Toews 54 Kane 72 Hall 42 Duchene 55
Giroux first full season at 22 - 47pts 2 years later 93
Getzlaf first full season at 21 - 58 pts 2 years later 91

54 points as an 18-19 year old in Buffalo would be a fine rookie season
but I hope McEichel saves a couple of goals for when it actually matters.

 

[FearTheBeard]

Don't show Stoakes that, I'm still waiting to see 4 out of 10 scouts choosing Eichel over McDavid. Ones called a Generational Talent, the other is labeled a Superstar.

I came here to post that. The last 4 months Eichel fan boys keep saying "its closer than you think." And "4 out of 10 of scouts said he's number 1 according to McKenzie." First of all, back in September, it was 3 out of 10 scouts. And since then, all 3 scouts have changed their minds to McDavid. For those who haven't realized it already, and keep insisting that 1-2 are "neck in neck" They're not, and the gap continues to grow between the 2.

 

[Zip15]

I came here to post that. The last 4 months Eichel fan boys keep saying "its closer than you think." And "4 out of 10 of scouts said he's number 1 according to McKenzie." First of all, back in September, it was 3 out of 10 scouts. And since then, all 3 scouts have changed their minds to McDavid. For those who haven't realized it already, and keep insisting that 1-2 are "neck in neck" They're not, and the gap continues to grow between the 2.

Fanboys? Plural? Who else are you lumping in with Stokes?

That said, I still think Eichel and Hall would be preferable to one McDavid.

 

[CaptPantalones]

They also had him at wing last year. Easier position to play.

I fully expect mcdavid to play a lot of wing if we draft him

 

[OkimLom]

I came here to post that. The last 4 months Eichel fan boys keep saying "its closer than you think." And "4 out of 10 of scouts said he's number 1 according to McKenzie." First of all, back in September, it was 3 out of 10 scouts. And since then, all 3 scouts have changed their minds to McDavid. For those who haven't realized it already, and keep insisting that 1-2 are "neck in neck" They're not, and the gap continues to grow between the 2.

I think the talent level gap between McDavid and Eichel is comparable to the talent level gap of Crosby and Malkin. One is by far the better player, but I wouldn't feel bad at all to have the other.