2015 Draft Thread "McEichel" Part 3

[stokes84]

Nope most 3rd overall picks are better players than Skinner, just like most people think Marner will be. Once again you aren't making a whole lot of sense.

Oh really? Here's 10 years of 3rd overall picks:

Huberdeau
Gudbranson
Duchene
Bogosian
Turris
Toews
J. Johnson
Barker
Horton
Bouwmeester
Svitov

I'd say Jeff Skinner would be in the upper echelon of this group.

It really isn't, but ok.

Click to read more...

 

[1972]

He might be the best American prospect ever though... If not he his top 3, it isn't exaggerated. Eichel is next to McDavid the best prospect since Crosby.

 

[stokes84]

Mitch Marner is a great prospect. But he's not in the neighborhood of Eichel. It's not that controversial.

 

[joshjull]

So I know what stokes thinks as it pertains to Eichel vs Marner. Anyone else?

 

[Gabrielor]

So I know what stokes thinks as it pertains to Eichel vs Marner. Anyone else?

I think the drop from Eichel to Marner is pretty comparable (at time of writing) to 'from MacKinnon to Drouin'. There's a drop, but not an egregious drop, which is why I'm surprised in Stokes position, since I read him argue the opposite in 2013.

 

[1972]

So I know what stokes thinks as it pertains to Eichel vs Marner. Anyone else?

I don't see the comparison, Marner is a standard top pick, Eichel comes around every 10 years. It's a pretty big drop off I think.

 

[Zman5778]

I think the drop from Eichel to Marner is pretty comparable (at time of writing) to 'from MacKinnon to Drouin'. There's a drop, but not an egregious drop, which is why I'm surprised in Stokes position, since I read him argue the opposite in 2013.

Nice way to put it.


The difference in their high-end projection I would put as "franchise-altering center" vs. "not quite franchise altering center/wing, yet still pretty darned good and will make a few All-Star games".

 

[stokes84]

Nice way to put it.


The difference in their high-end projection I would put as "franchise-altering center" vs. "not quite franchise altering center/wing, yet still pretty darned good and will make a few All-Star games".

Likelihood to hit that ceiling is important. Eichel is as sure as it comes. Marner is 5'9", 160 lbs. Likelihood of hitting his ceiling is significantly lower.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

It doesn't really seem like a lot of people in the Buffalo board has seen either of them play live, and not many of us have seen many Marner games at all, I'm guessing, since they're difficult to see. Most people's opinions here are based on stats, scouting rankings, and team needs. Which is not really enough IMO. Based on the facts we do have, despite Marner's great numbers, most scouts have Eichel well ahead of Marner, though some a lot more than others. Craig Button has him at #3 and even he thinks there's a pretty big drop off between the two.

I think Marner will be much better than Skinner is though, based on what we know. Eichel should be as much better than Marner than Marner is than Skinner IMO.

 

[B U F F A L O]

When was the last time a 2.75+ points per game player in the CHL actually busted in the NHL?

 

[SabresFan26]

Early Mock going off of Chris Button's who's available and where we pick. With the loss last night, the Canes have a game in hand on Buffalo, 3 more ROW's and our only 1 point behind. I will assume Buffalo picks second and that Edmonton wins the McDavid sweepstakes.

2. C Jack Eichel Boston University NCAA (Gives us insane center depth for future of Eichel, Reinhart, Girgensons, Compher. We can then move Grigorenko to wing or package in a trade)
23. RW Nikita Korostelev Sarnia OHL (Skilled Russian, produces offense but plays tough NA game. Potential top 6 skilled winger with size)
24. D Jakub Zboril Saint John QMJHL (Skilled 2 way LH defenseman with good size. Good shot from the point, well rounded, a lot to like. potential mid pairing d guy)
32. D Rasmus Andersson Barrie OHL (2 way talented RH Swedish dman, good hockey sense, could be a mid pairing D and PP QB)
54. LW Ryan Gropp Seattle WHL (Good PWF with size, aggressive, a competitor with skill, future mid 6 LW)
92. LW Dmytro Timashov LW (High reward player if he pans out, elite offensive talent, pushing top 6 F if he pans out)

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

When was the last time a 2.75+ points per game player in the CHL actually busted in the NHL?

Wasn't Gagner somewhere close to those numbers?

 

[1972]

Likelihood to hit that ceiling is important. Eichel is as sure as it comes. Marner is 5'9", 160 lbs. Likelihood of hitting his ceiling is significantly lower.

More like 5'11" and still growing. Otherwise I would agree.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Early Mock going off of Chris Button's who's available and where we pick. With the loss last night, the Canes have a game in hand on Buffalo, 3 more ROW's and our only 1 point behind. I will assume Buffalo picks second and that Edmonton wins the McDavid sweepstakes.

2. C Jack Eichel Boston University NCAA (Gives us insane center depth for future of Eichel, Reinhart, Girgensons, Compher. We can then move Grigorenko to wing or package in a trade)
23. RW Nikita Korostelev Sarnia OHL (Skilled Russian, produces offense but plays tough NA game. Potential top 6 skilled winger with size)
24. D Jakub Zboril Saint John QMJHL (Skilled 2 way LH defenseman with good size. Good shot from the point, well rounded, a lot to like. potential mid pairing d guy)
32. D Rasmus Andersson Barrie OHL (2 way talented RH Swedish dman, good hockey sense, could be a mid pairing D and PP QB)
54. LW Ryan Gropp Seattle WHL (Good PWF with size, aggressive, a competitor with skill, future mid 6 LW)
92. LW Dmytro Timashov LW (High reward player if he pans out, elite offensive talent, pushing top 6 F if he pans out)

Love it. Then again, you'd really have to go out of your way to come up with a mock draft that doesn't look absolutely incredible for Buffalo in 2015

 

[1972]

It doesn't really seem like a lot of people in the Buffalo board has seen either of them play live, and not many of us have seen many Marner games at all, I'm guessing, since they're difficult to see. Most people's opinions here are based on stats, scouting rankings, and team needs. Which is not really enough IMO. Based on the facts we do have, despite Marner's great numbers, most scouts have Eichel well ahead of Marner, though some a lot more than others. Craig Button has him at #3 and even he thinks there's a pretty big drop off between the two.

I think Marner will be much better than Skinner is though, based on what we know. Eichel should be as much better than Marner than Marner is than Skinner IMO.

I don't know about you guys in the states, but the London Knights have played about 4 games on national TV already. They also take on Erie tonight on Sportsnet. Do you guys get this in the states?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The early knock on Marner was that he wasn't winning puck battles and wasn't going into the corners enough, stuff like that. You don't hear that anymore. Shall we assume he's improved in this aspect? You don't see it mentioned either way in the scouting reports, which I'm assuming is a good thing.

Does anyone know what Kane's weaknesses were during his draft year?

 

[stokes84]

I don't know about you guys in the states, but the London Knights have played about 4 games on national TV already tonight. They also take on Erie tonight on Sportsnet. Do you guys get this in the states?

Every so often they will replay games on NHL Network, usually in the morning so you have to be looking for it. Otherwise, you have to buy the package and watch on your computer. You can also get individual games.

 

[couture23]

Likelihood to hit that ceiling is important. Eichel is as sure as it comes. Marner is 5'9", 160 lbs. Likelihood of hitting his ceiling is significantly lower.

Patrick Kane OHL draft year: 5'11 170

Mitch Marner OHL draft year: 5'11 164

Size is nothing. Gaudreau, Tyler Johnson are prime examples this year.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Likelihood to hit that ceiling is important. Eichel is as sure as it comes. Marner is 5'9", 160 lbs. Likelihood of hitting his ceiling is significantly lower.

Almost every scouting report I've read recently goes out of the way to mention that size won't be a problem for Marner. I agree with you that he's not in the same tier as Eichel, but let's not use size as the reason. Smaller guys are proving that theory wrong every day. There are limits, obviously, but 5' 9" at his age isn't a problem at all.

 

[SabresFan26]

Likelihood to hit that ceiling is important. Eichel is as sure as it comes. Marner is 5'9", 160 lbs. Likelihood of hitting his ceiling is significantly lower.

Well I agree there is separation between Eichel and Marner, he is bigger than 5 9 160

OHL site 5ft11 164
Eliteprospects 5ft11 163
HF 5ft11 164
Hockeydb 5ft10 164

Even your ISS has him at 5ft11 155


Sure he needs to fill out but the kid is 17 for 4 more months, he will continue to grow.

and 2 inches makes a big difference
Crosby is 5 11
Duchene is 5 11
Giroux is 5 11
Pavelski is 5 11
Kane is 5 11

 

[couture23]

The early knock on Marner was that he wasn't winning puck battles and wasn't going into the corners enough, stuff like that. You don't hear that anymore. Shall we assume he's improved in this aspect? You don't see it mentioned either way in the scouting reports, which I'm assuming is a good thing.

Does anyone know what Kane's weaknesses were during his draft year?

Size and strength.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/9530/2007_prospects_patrick_kane/

 

[SabresFan26]

Love it. Then again, you'd really have to go out of your way to come up with a mock draft that doesn't look absolutely incredible for Buffalo in 2015

That would fill most of our holes and set us up real nicely imo.

 

[Husko]

Almost every scouting report I've read recently goes out of the way to mention that size won't be a problem for Marner. I agree with you that he's not in the same tier as Eichel, but let's not use size as the reason. Smaller guys are proving that theory wrong every day. There are limits, obviously, but 5' 9" at his age isn't a problem at all.

And he's not 5'9''

 

[is the answer jesus]

Oh really? Here's 10 years of 3rd overall picks:

Huberdeau
Gudbranson
Duchene
Bogosian
Turris
Toews
J. Johnson
Barker
Horton
Bouwmeester
Svitov

I'd say Jeff Skinner would be in the upper echelon of this group.



It really isn't, but ok.

You missed Galchenyuk. Skinner would be on the lower half of that list as far as I'm concerned. Galcheynuk, Toews, Duchene, Turris, Bouwmeester, Bogosian are all guys I would all rank higher for sure. Horton is similar offensively and is a power forward so I'd prefer him, Huberdeau is still young and could develop into a very good top 6 center it may not happen, but at this point I'd take him over Skinner as well. So yeah not in the top tier of that group. Not that this pertains to anything anyways, but when you don't have a leg to stand on, 3rd overall picks and Jeff Skinner tangents are what you resort to.

 

[stokes84]

Just to be clear, I am not anti-Marner. Size isn't a huge issue to me. He's right there with Crouse and Hanifin for me. Hell, I'm the biggest Ennis homer on the board. I just think comparing him to Eichel is insane.