Salary Cap: 2015-2016 Payroll

[starling]

People were saying the same things about Hoffman a year ago.

Got lots of these laugh:) when I suggested Hoffman was a better player than Conacher during the 2013-14 training camp.

There isn't a single timeline for player development, specially when a young player misses time through injury.

Cowen needs time, the Sens will likely show patience with him, unless one of the younger guys passes him which isn't likely in the near term.

Wait. Isn't it what people been saying about Conacher too? Why didn't we give Conacher a couple more years after that impressive rookie season when he was considered for Calder?

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I don't see Cowen or Weircioch as part of the future. I don't see how a team can win a cup with these guys in your top 4 with the way they've played over the past 2 seasons

Winning the cup is about team, not individuals.

The team that wins the cup usually does so on the backs of their goaltending, offence from the top D and 4th line contributions, not because they have great talent or depth throughout the D corps.

The Sens are just starting to show what they are capable of with Cowen & PW and when a hot goaltender is added to the mix can beat the top teams in the league.

Another year or two of experience, a few more young guys added and few vets moved and it could well be exciting times for Ottawa fans.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Wait. Isn't it what people been saying about Conacher too? Why didn't we give Conacher a couple more years after that impressive rookie season when he was considered for Calder?

I know what people were saying about Conacher, I wasn't one of them.

There is a process called 'player evaluation' and IMO Conacher didn't pass the test to warrant additional time, obviously BM agreed.

Interestingly enough the architect of that Conacher-Bishop trade, one Tim Murray, came to the same conclusion in Buffalo, as did the NYI.

People jumped on Conacher's AHL results, a few games with Stamkos and proclaimed him a top six player.

Seems the part they missed was watching him play.

Hoffman has always been extraordinarily skilled, a slow developer, this is a kid you give extra time to and it paided off.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Cowen will earn 3.7 million next year.
Wiercioch will earn 2.7 million next year.
Borowiecki will earn 1.1 million next year.
Gryba will earn 1.3 million next year.

As of next year, an overpaid Cowen is redundant on the left side. Borowiecki has effectively passed him as a bottom pairing defensive specialist for a third of the cost. Wiercioch has until the deadline to showcase himself as the second pairing puck mover Cowen never became, because at 2.7, he can still demonstrate value. Gryba is on a friendly contract and brings physicality to the right side in a limited role.

Cowen's time on this team has run out. He's the Colin Greening of our defense, but luckily, he wasn't chosen 204th overall like Greening was. Based on his top 10 selection, there are GM's who will acquire him based on 'potential'.

 

[Sensinitis]

Also he's still pretty young at 24.

GMs won't bite when he's 26/27 and hasn't progressed.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Cowen will earn 3.7 million next year.
Wiercioch will earn 2.7 million next year.
Borowiecki will earn 1.1 million next year.
Gryba will earn 1.3 million next year.

As of next year, an overpaid Cowen is redundant on the left side. Borowiecki has effectively passed him as a bottom pairing defensive specialist for a third of the cost. Wiercioch has until the deadline to showcase himself as the second pairing puck mover Cowen never became, because at 2.7, he can still demonstrate value. Gryba is on a friendly contract and brings physicality to the right side in a limited role.

Cowen's time on this team has run out. He's the Colin Greening of our defense, but luckily, he wasn't chosen 204th overall like Greening was. Based on his top 10 selection, there are GM's who will acquire him based on 'potential'.

Didn't realize Bryan Murray went by the name LeTigre

 

[BigBush*]

Didn't realize Bryan Murray went by the name LeTigre

Oh wow that's a great joke!

It does appear that Cowen is now the outside looking to make his way back into the line up. That's always creates uncertainty when you carry the cap hit (and a back loaded contract) that Cowen does

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Oh wow that's a great joke!

It does appear that Cowen is now the outside looking to make his way back into the line up. That's always creates uncertainty when you carry the cap hit (and a back loaded contract) that Cowen does

Don't disagree.

However Cowen is still young and has shown signs of his potential and leading up to the trade deadline GMs were inquiring about Cowen's availability and had no interest in Weircoich.

While Cowen does struggle at times, what he brings to the game cannot be taught, what he needs to improve can be.

So my personal belief is the patient approach is the right approach, unless a GM makes an offer that BM just can't refuse.

 

[aragorn]

I know what people were saying about Conacher, I wasn't one of them.

There is a process called 'player evaluation' and IMO Conacher didn't pass the test to warrant additional time, obviously BM agreed.

Interestingly enough the architect of that Conacher-Bishop trade, one Tim Murray, came to the same conclusion in Buffalo, as did the NYI.

People jumped on Conacher's AHL results, a few games with Stamkos and proclaimed him a top six player.

Seems the part they missed was watching him play.

Hoffman has always been extraordinarily skilled, a slow developer, this is a kid you give extra time to and it paided off.

I wasn't a Conacher fan either & took a lot of flack over it, but he just wasn't very good defensively & wasn't putting the puck in the net often enough offensively to make up for it. And I also agree with you on Hoffman, he always had the speed & could always dangle the puck but what impressed me the most was his vision on the ice to spot open players & his passing ability to go along with his shot which was & is deadly. What a find for Ottawa to have two 6th round picks become two of our best players in Hoffman & Stone. Ottawa has a stable of good young players & more coming & it's all thanks to BM & company.

 

[God Says No]

I wasn't a Conacher fan either & took a lot of flack over it, but he just wasn't very good defensively & wasn't putting the puck in the net often enough offensively to make up for it. And I also agree with you on Hoffman, he always had the speed & could always dangle the puck but what impressed me the most was his vision on the ice to spot open players & his passing ability to go along with his shot which was & is deadly. What a find for Ottawa to have two 6th round picks become two of our best players in Hoffman & Stone. Ottawa has a stable of good young players & more coming & it's all thanks to BM & company.

Don't re-write history. You were never a Hoffman fan, neither JGP, nor Condra. I think you are seeing what speed can add to a lineup. We need size, but speed is as important.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

I know what people were saying about Conacher, I wasn't one of them.

There is a process called 'player evaluation' and IMO Conacher didn't pass the test to warrant additional time, obviously BM agreed.

Interestingly enough the architect of that Conacher-Bishop trade, one Tim Murray, came to the same conclusion in Buffalo, as did the NYI.

People jumped on Conacher's AHL results, a few games with Stamkos and proclaimed him a top six player.

Seems the part they missed was watching him play.

Hoffman has always been extraordinarily skilled, a slow developer, this is a kid you give extra time to and it paided off.

Conacher fell off, but in his early early NHL days he had games where he looked amazing. I was never a huge Conacher guy but he had some games in Tampa where he looked like the engine of the team whenever he was on the ice. He also had really bad games on that top line, but to say he showed nothing is a bit harsh imo.

 

[Tnouc Alucard]

Cowen will earn 3.7 million next year.
Wiercioch will earn 2.7 million next year.
Borowiecki will earn 1.1 million next year.
Gryba will earn 1.3 million next year.

As of next year, an overpaid Cowen is redundant on the left side. Borowiecki has effectively passed him as a bottom pairing defensive specialist for a third of the cost. Wiercioch has until the deadline to showcase himself as the second pairing puck mover Cowen never became, because at 2.7, he can still demonstrate value. Gryba is on a friendly contract and brings physicality to the right side in a limited role.

Cowen's time on this team has run out. He's the Colin Greening of our defense, but luckily, he wasn't chosen 204th overall like Greening was. Based on his top 10 selection, there are GM's who will acquire him based on 'potential'.

Way way to early to write of Cowen. Denis Potvin has said many times, that a young defence man needs at least 300 games in the NHL, before you can begin to evaluate him. Cowen has played 211 games.


I'll go with Denis Potvin, and I'm sure the Senators will not get rid on him.


The New York Islanders figured Chara's time had run out with them, after only playing 231 games in the NHL ..... do I have to elaborate?

 

[StefanW]

Way way to early to write of Cowen. Denis Potvin has said many times, that a young defence man needs at least 300 games in the NHL, before you can begin to evaluate him. Cowen has played 211 games.


I'll go with Denis Potvin, and I'm sure the Senators will not get rid on him.


The New York Islanders figured Chara's time had run out with them, after only playing 231 games in the NHL ..... do I have to elaborate?

Yeah, I think you do have to elaborate. If you are using Chara as your example, you have to explain in what way, shape, or form you think Cowen will become the next Chara. Chara excelled because of his famous work ethic, which allowed him to continue to develop and improve his game when other younger players would top out. When I look at Cowen I do not see a guy who is improving via hard work. This is even worse when you listen to him in interviews, where he consistently shows that he has not completely wrapped his head around the fact that he is actually not playing well right now. Improvement comes in some part from honest self assessment, so this is troubling.

FTR, I am ok with keeping Cowen around for now to see if he is any better next season. However, if he can become a piece in a package that lands us another top player then he should be gonzo.

 

[Othello*]

I'd rather keep Cowen and trade Gryba and Phillips.
Methot Karlsson
Cowen FA
Weircioch Ceci
Boro

 

[LuckyPierre]

Way way to early to write of Cowen. Denis Potvin has said many times, that a young defence man needs at least 300 games in the NHL, before you can begin to evaluate him. Cowen has played 211 games.


I'll go with Denis Potvin, and I'm sure the Senators will not get rid on him.


The New York Islanders figured Chara's time had run out with them, after only playing 231 games in the NHL ..... do I have to elaborate?

Name dropping Potvin does nothing for me. Furthermore, I've heard other experts throw out 200 games as their arbitrary benchmark. Which magic number is the correct one?

The fact is, Cowen is grappling with guys like Wier and Boro who as of next year make much less than he makes. Weircioch is a better possession player, and Borowiecki is a more physical shutdown player. Add in Cowen's holdout, headshots, and ignorant media availabilities, and you get the picture.

 

[Samsquanch]

Gryba is pretty bad. I have even less confidence when he touches the puck than I do when Cowen does.

Cowen has shown flashes of skill with carrying and dishing the puck, it's part of what made him a top 10 pick. All I see is a flash fire every time the puck touches Grybas stick.

He's good when you don't notice him, which unfortunately only happens when he doesn't get a chance to handle the puck.

I'd rather he be moved and one of our LD learns how to play the right, but won't be horribly pissed if Gryba ends up as our 7th d next year.

 

[aragorn]

Don't re-write history. You were never a Hoffman fan, neither JGP, nor Condra. I think you are seeing what speed can add to a lineup. We need size, but speed is as important.

I've always liked Hoffman but I was not a fan of Pageau, Condra or Karlsson although they have all been playing great lately. And I'm still a fan of the GSN line.

Obviously the game itself is changing & without the enforcers & the intimidation factor & the refs calling a lot more it has changed the game & allows for more speed. The fact that you can't touch a guy after he has dumped the puck in allows for a much faster race to the puck, no more clutching & grabbing, the game is changing rapidly & continues to change. I think the jury is still out whether it is better or not but this run by the Sens is certainly exciting. I kind of miss the hard hits, some fighting & the brawls they were fun to watch. I assume they are trying to clean the game up to attract a larger audience specifically in the US & the speed of the game is certainly getting faster which is allowing for a lot more smaller players to be involved & pushing out the slower bigger players. I'm not sure I would want to see a European style game without much hitting but with concussions being a big problem in sport I assume that will also have an affect on the game. I guess we'll see.

 

[Ouroboros]

Gryba is pretty bad. I have even less confidence when he touches the puck than I do when Cowen does.

Cowen has shown flashes of skill with carrying and dishing the puck, it's part of what made him a top 10 pick. All I see is a flash fire every time the puck touches Grybas stick.

He's good when you don't notice him, which unfortunately only happens when he doesn't get a chance to handle the puck.

I'd rather he be moved and one of our LD learns how to play the right, but won't be horribly pissed if Gryba ends up as our 7th d next year.

You aren't allowed to say any of this. Gryba still has 150 games to play before we can say whether he sucks or not.

 

[thesensguy]

I've always liked Hoffman but I was not a fan of Pageau, Condra or Karlsson although they have all been playing great lately. And I'm still a fan of the GSN line.

Obviously the game itself is changing & without the enforcers & the intimidation factor & the refs calling a lot more it has changed the game & allows for more speed. The fact that you can't touch a guy after he has dumped the puck in allows for a much faster race to the puck, no more clutching & grabbing, the game is changing rapidly & continues to change. I think the jury is still out whether it is better or not but this run by the Sens is certainly exciting. I kind of miss the hard hits, some fighting & the brawls they were fun to watch. I assume they are trying to clean the game up to attract a larger audience specifically in the US & the speed of the game is certainly getting faster which is allowing for a lot more smaller players to be involved & pushing out the slower bigger players. I'm not sure I would want to see a European style game without much hitting but with concussions being a big problem in sport I assume that will also have an affect on the game. I guess we'll see.

How in god's name can one miss the GSN line, they were amongst the word tassembled lines in this teams history. They all made each other worse, were used incorrectly and always gave the other team an advantage when they were in the ice. I'm sorry but that's absurd they were horrible as have become Neil, Smith, Philips and Greening.

 

[BigBush*]

You aren't allowed to say any of this. Gryba still has 150 games to play before we can say whether he sucks or not.

haha Potvin said so

 

[operasen]

Still concerned with the silence from Murray on the contracts. He seems to be completely silent. It makes me concerned we are dropping the ball on guys like Condra.

Condra deserves and wants a contract here. He's finally been given a consistent chance with quality line mates and has shown what he can do. I'd think almost all of the other teams have taken notice. He'll make more on the open market I'd bet. Murray should be locking him up now - at least discussing terms with his agent.

Zibanejad, Hoffman, Stone, Pageau, Gryba, Hammond, Chiasson - that's a lot of heavy lifting in the short time between the end of the season and July 1. Never mind the AHL guys and the Draft.

For a guy with health issues (Murray), planning longer term is a better strategy. I'm sure some of these guys would be happy to get some extra stability with a contract in place to play with a group of guys that is finally playing like a Team.

 

[topshelf15]

Still concerned with the silence from Murray on the contracts. He seems to be completely silent. It makes me concerned we are dropping the ball on guys like Condra.

Condra deserves and wants a contract here. He's finally been given a consistent chance with quality line mates and has shown what he can do. I'd think almost all of the other teams have taken notice. He'll make more on the open market I'd bet. Murray should be locking him up now - at least discussing terms with his agent.

Zibanejad, Hoffman, Stone, Pageau, Gryba, Hammond, Chiasson - that's a lot of heavy lifting in the short time between the end of the season and July 1. Never mind the AHL guys and the Draft.

For a guy with health issues (Murray), planning longer term is a better strategy. I'm sure some of these guys would be happy to get some extra stability with a contract in place to play with a group of guys that is finally playing like a Team.

He is gone ,Puemple is too close not to give him a chance ,a 3rd line with him, lazar and pageau looks much more intriging, than resigning condra probably cheaper too

 

[Caeldan]

Basically if they're not signed in Jan/early Feb... I think typically the contract talks go pretty quiet until the end of the season to avoid 'distractions'.

I mean, sure you get the occasionally re-signing - but I have a feeling that usually those are the big names who the agent says to the GM 'this is our number' and then the GM decides if he can make it fit and says okay.

Anything where there's actual negotiation required, they won't do while in the thick of a playoff race because you aren't going to want to insult anyone... plus as a player if they're a contributor, the longer they wait the more likely they increase their value.

 

[BigBush*]

No worries, those guys are all RFAs. There is no hurry to sign those guys, the more we see them play (particularly in the playoffs if we make it) the more they have to prove themselves.

Except for Condra. Hes probably gone unfortunately

 

[starling]

No worries, those guys are all RFAs. There is no hurry to sign those guys, the more we see them play (particularly in the playoffs if we make it) the more they have to prove themselves.

Except for Condra. Hes probably gone unfortunately

I'll be ****ing furious if they let Condra go and can't find a way to unload Greening or Smith.