Prospect Info: 2015-16 Rangers Prospects Thread Part III (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 5.28.16)

[Joey Bones]

I think you are really overrating Fast. Most here would agree he is not a 2nd line player and likely will never be one. He likely won't see 2nd line minutes either because we will always have better players than him to play the wing unless injuries occur.

Eh, maybe slightly overrating. Like I said, most will disagree with me and I agree he probably won't find 2nd line minutes because he is so effective defensively. I'm just ranting pretty much on most people thinking Fast is a liability offensively when he clearly is not and I personally think that he could be well represented on a 2nd line.

 

[Joey Bones]

Those are my thoughts. I'm the one who started this discussion by saying IF Jensen impresses enough in camp, it might make Fast available. Somehow, though, he's reaching untouchable status.

First off, don't put words in my mouth. I'm not saying Fast is untouchable, I'm just simply saying he's not a "dime a dozen" player that could easily be a throw-in in a trade. I'm curious to hear why you have such high praise for Jensen after one good tournament. Is it great to hear that he succeeded? Yes, absolutely! But to give him a better shot rather than to a proven Fast is laughable. Jensen is not proven under whatever means. He needs to earn it, just like Fast did.

From my vantage point he does look out of place. He's a tweener in my book. He's excellent for the 4th line, but, with extended minutes on the 3rd line he will put up average numbers at best. As Inferno pointed out, his most common linemates were four out of our top five offensive players. Essentially he put up average 3rd line numbers while playing with top 6 forwards. Those numbers can and will easily be eclipsed by better offensive players, which is why I cringe when AV puts him in those spots.

No, his common linemates were Dominic Moore, Viktor Stalberg and Kevin Hayes. I don't know where Inferno got his information, but Fast never consistently played with Stepan or Miller. He was predominately with Kreider if we were to pick out of those four players. AV overlooks his offensive potential, IMO, and always addresses the bottom 6 with Fast's great defensive play. He's not a tweener, we aren't talking about Glass here. He could easily be a middle 6 player.

Why would they have to move Kreider or Hayes? If Nash goes, and the Rangers don't re-sign Stalberg, there are two open spots on RW...one for Buch one for Vesey. And Brooks has written that the Rangers are going to push hard for Vesey, so while you may believe the Rangers don't need him, Ranger brass disagrees.


I do not anticipate seeing Jensen in a top 6 role, or even a 3rd line role, for that matter. My point was that he could impress enough to earn a spot on the 4th line.



Cap dumps for Nash? Hardly...I think it's more likely that the Rangers will retain money to get a better return. And what if a Silfverberg or Jurco or Wilson comes back in a deal for Nash? I think you're underselling Nash's value on the trade market.

As for Brassard or Stepan being moved, the more I read, the more I'm convinced one of them is getting moved this off-season.



I fully disagree about Fast being a top 6 forward, especially when better offensive players such as Zucc and Buch would be in the lineup.

And, as a footnote, weren't you claiming that you could see the Rangers signing Loui Eriksson? That move would put Fast on the 4th line as well.

Did you not get my point at all? The Rangers aren't enticing enough to grab Vesey. They can push as hard as they like, but in reality he's not trying to fight for a bottom 6 role. Where would that put Buchnevich? 3rd line? If Nash is moved, it's as a cap dump. Value is lowered every time for cap dump trades. Look at what Bickell just cost the Blackhawks. Nash is by all means not a bad player, but he would essentially be moved as a cap dump. Most are going to be very disappointed in a return for Nash, even though he deserves a better return, like what NYR sent to CBJ originally (maybe slightly less).

And Brooks is not NYR brass. He's a beat writer. His job is to stir the pot for us fans. His word, IMO, is slightly better than Eklund's.

In order to get Eriksson, they would need to delete cap without gaining significant cap in return. Pretty simple premise. I wasn't really insisting it, it was just food for thought. Most on the roster building thread were exemplifying that the scorer NYR needs to sign is Stamkos. I personally think Stamkos would've been too expensive so a better alternative would've been Eriksson. But either way that's not what this argument is leaning on.

 

[Ghost of jas]

First off, don't put words in my mouth. I'm not saying Fast is untouchable, I'm just simply saying he's not a "dime a dozen" player that could easily be a throw-in in a trade. I'm curious to hear why you have such high praise for Jensen after one good tournament. Is it great to hear that he succeeded? Yes, absolutely! But to give him a better shot rather than to a proven Fast is laughable. Jensen is not proven under whatever means. He needs to earn it, just like Fast did.

Who's putting words in whose mouth? High praise for Jensen? My statement was, IF Jensen has a good camp and impresses enough to win a 4th line spot, it could make Fast expendable. That doesn't fit my definition of high praise.

No, his common linemates were Dominic Moore, Viktor Stalberg and Kevin Hayes. I don't know where Inferno got his information, but Fast never consistently played with Stepan or Miller. He was predominately with Kreider if we were to pick out of those four players. AV overlooks his offensive potential, IMO, and always addresses the bottom 6 with Fast's great defensive play. He's not a tweener, we aren't talking about Glass here. He could easily be a middle 6 player.

Inferno cited actual numbers. Are you forgetting the amount of time he spent with Brassard and Miller when Miller had his mid-season burst? And putting him with Kreider and Stepan is one of AV's default crutches that I have a problem with. And, IMO, he is a tweener. He's a very good 4th line player. He put up average 3rd numbers while playing the majority of his time with top 6 forwards. Nash missed half the season. AV had Lindberg/Hayes/Stalberg as the 3rd line. Where do you think Fast went? It wasn't next to Moore and Glass.

Did you not get my point at all? The Rangers aren't enticing enough to grab Vesey. They can push as hard as they like, but in reality he's not trying to fight for a bottom 6 role. Where would that put Buchnevich? 3rd line? If Nash is moved, it's as a cap dump. Value is lowered every time for cap dump trades. Look at what Bickell just cost the Blackhawks. Nash is by all means not a bad player, but he would essentially be moved as a cap dump. Most are going to be very disappointed in a return for Nash, even though he deserves a better return, like what NYR sent to CBJ originally (maybe slightly less).

That's your opinion on Vesey. I heard the same rhetoric regarding Kevin Hayes. Preclude yourself from hope of Vesey signing with the Rangers. I'll wait until his signing is officially announced elsewhere to hold the same viewpoint. As for Nash, again, that is your viewpoint regarding his value. I could easily surmise that the opposite side will be very surprised with the value he actually brings back Tit-for-tat, as they say.

And Brooks is not NYR brass. He's a beat writer. His job is to stir the pot for us fans. His word, IMO, is slightly better than Eklund's.

No, he's not Ranger brass. He does however appear to have the best sources within the organization, and he sometimes appears to be a mouthpiece for the organization when the wish to push an issue.

In order to get Eriksson, they would need to delete cap without gaining significant cap in return. Pretty simple premise. I wasn't really insisting it, it was just food for thought. Most on the roster building thread were exemplifying that the scorer NYR needs to sign is Stamkos. I personally think Stamkos would've been too expensive so a better alternative would've been Eriksson. But either way that's not what this argument is leaning on.

No, it's not what this argument is hanging on. However, if the Rangers were, unfortunately willing to sign Eriksson, then again, that would mean Ranger brass sees Fast as a 4th line player, by virtue of wanting 3 more talented offensive players, (Zucc, Bucc and Eriksson) above him on the depth chart. Is Fast a dime-a-dozen player? In a sense, there are a lot of Jesper Fast-type players around the league. He's not unique in the manner that Hagelin was. He's not does not possess the physical gifts of Stalberg. He does not have the offensive upside of Lindberg. He's a nice player. He's the type of player a veteran coach likes because he doesn't try their patience like a Kreider or Miller does. The low-risk outweighs the high-reward. Did you call him "untouchable" per se? No, but you and a few other posters were incredulous that such a suggestion that Fast could be expendable. IMO, this team would not nearly miss Fast as much as you and others have suggested. I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time, but, I'll live with it.

And, again, I read what you wrote, I just don't agree with you.

 

[Inferno]

Google most common linemates nhl or something...there's a good site with easy to find info on it.

 

[Inferno]

heres the tool btw joey... in case you think i made it up
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time...+14+15+16+17+18+19+20+21+22+23+24+25+26+27+28


also fyi, remember that Etem, Stoll, Glass, and Stalberg all played on the 4th line. the 4th line the final 1/3 to 1/4 of the season was stalberg moore and glass.

 

[Joey Bones]

Who's putting words in whose mouth? High praise for Jensen? My statement was, IF Jensen has a good camp and impresses enough to win a 4th line spot, it could make Fast expendable. That doesn't fit my definition of high praise.





Inferno cited actual numbers. Are you forgetting the amount of time he spent with Brassard and Miller when Miller had his mid-season burst? And putting him with Kreider and Stepan is one of AV's default crutches that I have a problem with. And, IMO, he is a tweener. He's a very good 4th line player. He put up average 3rd numbers while playing the majority of his time with top 6 forwards. Nash missed half the season. AV had Lindberg/Hayes/Stalberg as the 3rd line. Where do you think Fast went? It wasn't next to Moore and Glass.




That's your opinion on Vesey. I heard the same rhetoric regarding Kevin Hayes. Preclude yourself from hope of Vesey signing with the Rangers. I'll wait until his signing is officially announced elsewhere to hold the same viewpoint. As for Nash, again, that is your viewpoint regarding his value. I could easily surmise that the opposite side will be very surprised with the value he actually brings back Tit-for-tat, as they say.



No, he's not Ranger brass. He does however appear to have the best sources within the organization, and he sometimes appears to be a mouthpiece for the organization when the wish to push an issue.



No, it's not what this argument is hanging on. However, if the Rangers were, unfortunately willing to sign Eriksson, then again, that would mean Ranger brass sees Fast as a 4th line player, by virtue of wanting 3 more talented offensive players, (Zucc, Bucc and Eriksson) above him on the depth chart. Is Fast a dime-a-dozen player? In a sense, there are a lot of Jesper Fast-type players around the league. He's not unique in the manner that Hagelin was. He's not does not possess the physical gifts of Stalberg. He does not have the offensive upside of Lindberg. He's a nice player. He's the type of player a veteran coach likes because he doesn't try their patience like a Kreider or Miller does. The low-risk outweighs the high-reward. Did you call him "untouchable" per se? No, but you and a few other posters were incredulous that such a suggestion that Fast could be expendable. IMO, this team would not nearly miss Fast as much as you and others have suggested. I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time, but, I'll live with it.

And, again, I read what you wrote, I just don't agree with you.

Agree to disagree, then. As much as I want to get on the hype train about most of these trade speculations, like Nash, I try to think logically as much as possible. I definitely think Nash gets a good return, but his cap hit is what really is getting moved.

I agree with you on Jensen trying out for a 4th line spot, but still, I don't think that'll make Fast expendable.

I realize signing Eriksson would push someone like Fast on the 4th line, but again, it was food for thought on the Stamkos clamor.

 

[Joey Bones]

heres the tool btw joey... in case you think i made it up
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time...+14+15+16+17+18+19+20+21+22+23+24+25+26+27+28


also fyi, remember that Etem, Stoll, Glass, and Stalberg all played on the 4th line. the 4th line the final 1/3 to 1/4 of the season was stalberg moore and glass.

Thank you for posting the link. Wasn't trying to call you out on it, just never saw consistent stats on the line mates.

 

[Irishguy42]

http://www.hockeysverige.se/2016/06...ar-nhl-igen-skulle-passa-perfekt-hos-rangers/

Klingberg apparently wants another go at the Rangers roster. We still own his rights.

Thoughts?

 

[Leetch3]

http://www.hockeysverige.se/2016/06...ar-nhl-igen-skulle-passa-perfekt-hos-rangers/

Klingberg apparently wants another go at the Rangers roster. We still own his rights.

Thoughts?

not sure where he would fit but he's still only 25. so if he's in camp thats a good thing. always a chance he surprises everyone

 

[nyr2k2]

http://www.hockeysverige.se/2016/06...ar-nhl-igen-skulle-passa-perfekt-hos-rangers/

Klingberg apparently wants another go at the Rangers roster. We still own his rights.

Thoughts?

That's good. There will be some real competition for spots in the bottom six, and Klingberg is another guy with some talent who could really push for one of them.

 

[NYR Viper]

That's good. There will be some real competition for spots in the bottom six, and Klingberg is another guy with some talent who could really push for one of them.

I really hope he comes over. He would be a nice option for the 4th line. Defensively he's solid, good size and strength. Center. I was hoping he would come back.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Good to here. You'll have Klingberg, Tambellini, Hrivik, Fast, Lindberg, Jensen, Hayes, plus younger players the Rangers may get back in any trades as well as tryouts battling it out for the bottom 6 positions, although Hayes, Fast and Lindberg (when healthy) have the inside track.

Fogarty and Nieves could have an outside shot as well but I doubt it.

 

[Leetch3]

I really hope he comes over. He would be a nice option for the 4th line. Defensively he's solid, good size and strength. Center. I was hoping he would come back.

i thought he was a wing...if he plays center that greatly increases his chances cause the 4th line center spot is a pretty big unknown right now with lindberg hurt.

 

[Irishguy42]

i thought he was a wing...if he plays center that greatly increases his chances cause the 4th line center spot is a pretty big unknown right now with lindberg hurt.

I'm pretty sure he's a RW

 

[Ghost of jas]

Another reason to dump Fast.

 

[McDonagh27]

http://www.hockeysverige.se/2016/06...ar-nhl-igen-skulle-passa-perfekt-hos-rangers/

Klingberg apparently wants another go at the Rangers roster. We still own his rights.

Thoughts?

I knew life in the KHL was rough but...

"It became a KHL adventure of good and evil. Carl Klingberg ended up in his coach's freezer Torpedo Nizhny Novgorod and had a really tough period in the season, but also took the opportunity to learn a thing or two about tackling adversity. With those lessons in port he is aiming for a new spell in North America."

Google translate.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Was Nieves playing C in Hartford or was he moved to wing?

 

[Irishguy42]

Was Nieves playing C in Hartford or was he moved to wing?

He was playing C. Didn't see any lineup where he was wing. Believe every game, he was 3C.

 

[Mac n Gs]

He was playing C. Didn't see any lineup where he was wing. Believe every game, he was 3C.

Huh, that'll be really interesting to see if he can keep developing as a scoring center and what his future will look like. I think he all the tools to be a really good bottom 9 player.

 

[Edge]

Huh, that'll be really interesting to see if he can keep developing as a scoring center and what his future will look like. I think he all the tools to be a really good bottom 9 player.

Scoring is probably the biggest uncertainty with Nieves.

I think the frame and potential for adding strength is there.

The hockey sense is good.

The speed is, obviously, very good.

To this point he just hasn't show himself to have scoring hands. Some of that was how he was deployed at Michigan, but a good bit of it is just a reflection of something that isn't his strength. But it will be interesting to see how he does with the right linemates or when paired with more offensively talented linemates.

 

[cwede]

Scoring is probably the biggest uncertainty with Nieves.
I think the frame and potential for adding strength is there.
The hockey sense is good.
The speed is, obviously, very good.
To this point he just hasn't show to have scoring hands. Some of that was how he deployed at Michigan, but a good bit of it is just a reflection of something that isn't his strength. But it will be interesting to see how he does with the right linemates or when paired with more offensively talented linemates.

yeah the word on Nieves was slick passer, reluctant shooter

 

[Leetch3]

yeah the word on Nieves was slick passer, reluctant shooter

so a typical ranger?

 

[Irishguy42]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BG03q8Ozf_z/

Kovacs will over here in a bit for prospect camp. Wonder if he signs an ELC to play in Hartford next season...

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Nice of them to give him a travel bag.

 

[Beacon]

Good to here. You'll have Klingberg, Tambellini, Hrivik, Fast, Lindberg, Jensen, Hayes, plus younger players the Rangers may get back in any trades as well as tryouts battling it out for the bottom 6 positions, although Hayes, Fast and Lindberg (when healthy) have the inside track.

Fogarty and Nieves could have an outside shot as well but I doubt it.

If Rambo even comes close to making the team, I'll be stunned. He might roof a couple of pretty shots, making fans giddy about him, possibly keeping him around beyond the second round of cuts (those cut in the first round are predominantly ECHLers and others who don't even get into preseason games), but he's nowhere near NHL-ready. He has a great shot, that's it.

As things stand right now, Nash, Kreider, Miller, Zucc, Brass and Step are the top-6. Hayes, Fast, Lindberg are locks to make it. The Rangers will probably sign a couple of vets, as they always do. At best, we're talking about Hrivik and Jensen battling Glass for the last spot.