Olympics: 2014 - U.S. Roster Discussion (Part II)

[Xokkeu]

True, Dubinsky would be a great player as well. Esp in the bottom six somewhere. Statsny, because he could only play in the top six and doesn't beat out Kesler or Pavelski is the odd man out.

Why?

 

[Thesensation19*]

I know Johnson is playing for the Blue Jackets and he plays major minutes but the guy was a negative all year long in a season where his team was inches from playoffs and their goalie was a Vezina masterpiece.

During their winning streak to almost make the playoffs, he actually had his worst games statistically.

I am not one to believe in all stats but its what I can go by for now, and it does play a role.

Especially on bigger ice? I might rather have a few other guys. John Carlson may be a guy who can replace him successfully.

 

[Xokkeu]

I know Johnson is playing for the Blue Jackets and he plays major minutes but the guy was a negative all year long in a season where his team was inches from playoffs and their goalie was a Vezina masterpiece.

During their winning streak to almost make the playoffs, he actually had his worst games statistically.

I am not one to believe in all stats but its what I can go by for now, and it does play a role.

Especially on bigger ice? I might rather have a few other guys. John Carlson may be a guy who can replace him successfully.

Have you seen him with the USA jersey on, especially on bigger ice?

 

[Thesensation19*]

Stastny is absolutely making this team. Not only is he one of our most talented centers, he's put in the time overseas at the World Championships.

Is he really one of our most talented centers? I see much better play from Stepan, Kesler (healthy) and Backes. And Pavelski kinda too.

Stastny has been nothing but inconsistent for Colorado.

So why does he deserve it? Cuz he spent more time than any of these guys in the WC? Maybe because Stepan, Backes and kesler were all too busy being in the later rounds of the Stanley Cup. Same can be said for Pavelski


Honestly, I am not sayig Stastny is a no way. But cmon! not better than these 4.
All around speaking and faceoff wise... i might even like Dubi better. He can play the wing! The PK! The PP! and big minutes

 

[Thesensation19*]

Have you seen him with the USA jersey on, especially on bigger ice?

nope. if you show me some proof. Vids, stats etc. I can see your point. Sadly I have not seen anything though.

But listen, I would like nothing more than Jack Johnson over all these guys.

What about Erik Johnson? Hes played strong for USA in WC and the Oly.

 

[Xokkeu]

Is he really one of our most talented centers? I see much better play from Stepan, Kesler (healthy) and Backes. And Pavelski kinda too.

Stastny has been nothing but inconsistent for Colorado.

So why does he deserve it? Cuz he spent more time than any of these guys in the WC? Maybe because Stepan, Backes and kesler were all too busy being in the later rounds of the Stanley Cup. Same can be said for Pavelski


Honestly, I am not sayig Stastny is a no way. But cmon! not better than these 4.
All around speaking and faceoff wise... i might even like Dubi better. He can play the wing! The PK! The PP! and big minutes

There's no way the US takes only four centers.

 

[Thesensation19*]

I just watched some small highlights of Johnson on bigger ice. Im down with it lol

 

[Xokkeu]

nope. if you show me some proof. Vids, stats etc. I can see your point. Sadly I have not seen anything though.

But listen, I would like nothing more than Jack Johnson over all these guys.

What about Erik Johnson? Hes played strong for USA in WC and the Oly.

He was pretty terrible this year at the Worlds. Ironically he's been better than Jack in the NHL for the most part, but Jack raises his game every single time he plays for the US. Jack is a .5 point per game player in the last four World Championship's.

 

[dwanmaster*]

Parise-Stepan-Kane
Ryan-Stastny-Kessel
Pacioretty-Kesler-Pavelski
Brown-Backes-Callahan
Wheeler

Suter-Yandle
Mcdonagh-Faulk
J.Johnson-Bogosian
Martin

Quick
Miller
Schneider

 

[William H Bonney]

Dubinsky over Stastny is laughable and won't even be considered, let alone happen, unless Dubi has a start to shock the world.

And it's not Stastny against Kesler, Stepan, Pavelski, and Backes for 4 center spots when they're likely taking 5 centers.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Regardless of Stastny's issues the last couple of years in Colorado he remains a gifted playmaker and has performed well when called upon internationally. The U.S. brass has long memories and I would be shocked if he doesn't make the team. I'm confident he'll have a good start to the season any way.

 

[Thesensation19*]

he was pretty terrible this year at the worlds. Ironically he's been better than jack in the nhl for the most part, but jack raises his game every single time he plays for the us. Jack is a .5 point per game player in the last four world championship's.

idk defensively but 2 goals, 2 assists for 4 points in 10 games is not all that bad. I heard some big goals 2

 

[Thesensation19*]

Parise-Stepan-Kane
Ryan-Stastny-Kessel
Pacioretty-Kesler-Pavelski
Brown-Backes-Callahan
Wheeler

Suter-Yandle
Mcdonagh-Faulk
J.Johnson-Bogosian
Martin

Quick
Miller
Schneider

One of the best line ups so far I think. Except Bogosian. Rather have Green/Goglioski. Faulk is close though, but might rather have Shatternkirk

 

[BlueDream]

Poile has said that the team will have a similar structure as the USA blueprint set up by Burke in 2010. The USA Blueprint is very similar he says to the Nashville blueprint. 4th liners are just as important as the top lines, defense wins championships and role players are necessary.

Interesting to see how the relationship is with Poile and Suter lol.

Also, Burke is apparently still a significant figure in the roster choices he said. Along with Shero who he has experience with. I think there all on the same page which is great.

They know that our talent is growing but they also know they wont win by putting 4 lines of attack with only a dab of role players.

Burke compared the top 6 to "artists". Skilled players who do magic
He said the bottom 6 should be set up as "specialists" or "plumbers". Grab a pail and a hard hat and ready to do the dirty work. Role players.

So unless guys like Blake Wheeler and TJ Oshie have made the top 6 somehow, I do not see them making the final 12.

Since this is in Europe with larger rinks, things in the blueprint have been adjusted. We may not see a guy like David Backes. Maybe, though his size would be nice to mix in.

I think they mean they will keep most of the 2010 roster and then replace the retirees and older players with proper fill ins. Not just the "next best player". They will look to add a bit of speed of course but I dont think you see a bunch of speedy wingers being added for just a thing. The defense will be shaken up too. Guys like Komisarek made the original 2010 team for their physical play. This time around guys like shattenkirk and yandle will make it I think or have serious looks. Also cuz there more developed.

But a guy like Byf, do we really see him here? Hes heavier and heavier, in many ways hes slower. hes bigger. Hes not effective in the large rinks from what I can see. I rather have many other choices

Sorry but you seriously need to stop posting until you actually know what you're talking about.

T.J. Oshie is a gritty, two-way player that is PERFECT for the bottom 6. He's not a top 6 player on an Olympic team because he's not a goal scorer really. But he will easily have one of the best defensive games up front on Team USA. I still don't know if he beats out guys like JVR, Wheeler, etc., but he'll probably be fighting for a 4th-line or extra forward spot.

David Backes is a lock for this team. There are not 13 better forwards than him to replace his size and physicality, ability to play center and wing, great defensive game, and can also score.

I think the biggest toss up is with the RHD.

 

[Kvashinator12]

There's no way the US takes only four centers.

That's why they take Okposo who plays wing and center

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

When was the last time Okposo played center? He's not even exactly a proven performer at wing right now.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/201...-named-orientation-camp-news-notes/#more-6537 nice write-up on David Poile and the way the team will come together:

 

[JetsHomer]

Note, I think Blake Wheeler is an excellent forward. He is probably one of the most purest goal scorers in the game and his size is incredible. He loves to use it.

But i do think he has a good shot to make the team.

Blake Wheeler is many things, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone call him a goal scorer.

 

[Xokkeu]

That's why they take Okposo who plays wing and center

When was the last time Okposo played center?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Now that I think about it I'm a bit surprised Petry didn't get an invite.

 

[Skip To My Lou]

When was the last time Okposo played center?

This past season. Sometimes took most of the faceoffs instead of Nielsen.

 

[Var]

Why?

For one, let's harp on it a bit more because we really can't skip over this one - he can't skate. If you're in the bottom six, you have to have "hustle" somewhere in the vocabulary and he doesn't.

So why would you include him? Is it because he puts up points? In Colorado he's logging big minutes + PP time and he managed 24 in 40 games. That's good enough for you? And you feel comfortable saying it's because of his teammates? If you could assume he's playing as well as he used to, then sure, you'd have to assume it's because he's playing with bums like Landeskog. You'd have to assume that guys like Chris Stewart were propped up by Stastny and not the other way around. That the 36 point Stewart was the guy being propped up by the 24 point Stastny.

To recap what's been going on the last four years with Mr. Stastny, his point average has dropped every year for the past four. He's not a point a game player any more than Olli Jokinen is a prolific goal scorer.

Like I say, if you've been watching him play, he's been on a downward trend for a while. Buffy has more points and he's on D and people think he's not making the team. Team US doesn't need a guy who can't play defense and has forgotten how to play offense. I'd much rather have Buff playing a bottom six role than watch Stastny pretend he can check people.

Better yet, let's compare him to Blake Wheeler. You could argue Stastny's a better passer than Wheeler, and then you'd have to give up every other category to Wheeler. It would be like comparing Stastny to Parenteau. One guy used to play hockey, the other *is* playing hockey. It's really that simple.

 

[Xokkeu]

For one, let's harp on it a bit more because we really can't skip over this one - he can't skate. If you're in the bottom six, you have to have "hustle" somewhere in the vocabulary and he doesn't.

So why would you include him? Is it because he puts up points? In Colorado he's logging big minutes + PP time and he managed 24 in 40 games. That's good enough for you? And you feel comfortable saying it's because of his teammates? If you could assume he's playing as well as he used to, then sure, you'd have to assume it's because he's playing with bums like Landeskog. You'd have to assume that guys like Chris Stewart were propped up by Stastny and not the other way around. That the 36 point Stewart was the guy being propped up by the 24 point Stastny.

To recap what's been going on the last four years with Mr. Stastny, his point average has dropped every year for the past four. He's not a point a game player any more than Olli Jokinen is a prolific goal scorer.

Like I say, if you've been watching him play, he's been on a downward trend for a while. Buffy has more points and he's on D and people think he's not making the team. Team US doesn't need a guy who can't play defense and has forgotten how to play offense. I'd much rather have Buff playing a bottom six role than watch Stastny pretend he can check people.

Better yet, let's compare him to Blake Wheeler. You could argue Stastny's a better passer than Wheeler, and then you'd have to give up every other category to Wheeler. It would be like comparing Stastny to Parenteau. One guy used to play hockey, the other *is* playing hockey. It's really that simple.

Stastny and Landeskog do not play on the same line.

Chris Stewart's stat lines

W/ Colorado

94-113


St. Louis

89-153


Lets compare him to Wheeler. Stastny is an excellent playmaker, he's a great faceoff guy, he's very good in all three zones, he's a center on a wing laden roster, he has a lower point per game average career wise in the NHL (.62 vs .82), he's played better than Wheeler in international competitions.... it's really that simple.


But really this is the part where you really are just dead wrong....

Team US doesn't need a guy who can't play defense

 

[Var]

Stastny and Landeskog do not play on the same line.

They mix it up because they assume "the real Stastny" will show up. He doesn't. They keep throwing opportunities at him in hopes they can rekindle that 79 point season but it doesn't happen.

Landeskog was injured for a while but played with him a fair bit when he got back.

Chris Stewart's stat lines

W/ Colorado

94-113


St. Louis

89-153

I still don't understand how you think Stastny has carried anyone. How does someone who gets 24 points in 40 games and yet still get all kinds of #1 PP time consider themselves to be someone who carries their linemates? You'd expect him to at least outperform the person they claim to be carrying - and he didn't.

Keep in mind as well that St Louis is probably the most defense-first team in the league.

Lets compare him to Wheeler. Stastny is an excellent playmaker, he's a great faceoff guy, he's very good in all three zones, he's a center on a wing laden roster, he has a lower point per game average career wise in the NHL (.62 vs .82), he's played better than Wheeler in international competitions.... it's really that simple.

He used to be an excellent playmaker. His faceoffs are decent, sure. He's not good in all three zones, no. Not sure what you mean by a wing laden roster.

On the point per game averages, yes let's compare them. Blake's has been increasing every year for the past four years. Stastny's has been decreasing every year for the past four years. What does that tell you?

What it should tell you is that it's time to stop pretending this guy is the same guy he was four years ago. There are better players out there right now. Still bizarre that anyone would want a slow skater on a larger ice surface.

 

[Thesensation19*]

Sorry but you seriously need to stop posting until you actually know what you're talking about.

T.J. Oshie is a gritty, two-way player that is PERFECT for the bottom 6. He's not a top 6 player on an Olympic team because he's not a goal scorer really. But he will easily have one of the best defensive games up front on Team USA. I still don't know if he beats out guys like JVR, Wheeler, etc., but he'll probably be fighting for a 4th-line or extra forward spot.

David Backes is a lock for this team. There are not 13 better forwards than him to replace his size and physicality, ability to play center and wing, great defensive game, and can also score.

I think the biggest toss up is with the RHD.

Seriously, YOU need to know what your talking about before you speak...

Look, that easy. I can demand things too.

1) TJ Oshie may be able to play the role of a "specialist" but I am not looking for actors. I am looking for guys whose JOB it is to be a role player night in and night out in their club team so theres no confusion. You hire an experienced plumber to do your dirty work, same goes here.

Its the same thing in 2010. You may be able to come up with "better players" who could have done the same "thing" Callahan and Drury did for USA back then, but you couldnt find guys who do certain things as well.

I would not put Oshie in that role when there are far better players who can play that role and be more efficient for USA




2) Backes is a GREAT player. He is one of the best Americans. But for the same argument many Canadians are having for Getzlaf, Perry and etc, is he maybe just to big and thus to slow for this ice size?

personally, I dont think so. I think were overrating the need for speed in this size rink. No team should be willing to sacrifice GREAT players for the need of getting the fastest guys in the world. Backes stays I think, just brought it up