2014 Training Camp Thread

[artilector]

Ahaha, Laich as a superior player..

Meaning what, if you give him 2nd line spot, and PP time, he might, just might, score more goals than Chimmer/Ward? Hah.

All Laich has is slightly better hands than them, although again, it's completely open for debate what kind of success Chimmer/Ward would have if they'd get a 2nd line role, for example.

It's funny anyway that there can be a debate whether a 4.5m Laich is or isn't better than 2-3m 3rd liners.

What the hell is Laich's skill set? That he generally puts himself in the right position and can sometimes put the puck in the net when he gets a good chance? 4.5m, lol.

And I see another mention of putting Kuzy with Laich and Brouwer. Those two leaderz destroyed ES offense of any center that played with them last season. By all means let's give Kuz a try, for all of 10 mins, lol.

Just ship Laich out already, he makes zero sense on this team at this price. Caps already have Brouwer for that top-6 gritty NA vet role, and a bunch of more effective role players and promising youngsters.

 

[Koized]

Ward > Laich. Easily.

 

[txpd]

Its ok for me. I like all three guys. In the last couple of seasons there have been full court presses here to ditch both "Chimmer" and Ward. Add Laich as their center and they are a full on whipping boy line.

Yea, Laich is a more well rounded player. Scoring 20 like Chimera did or like Ward just did for the first time Laich does more things. Right now Laich sucks. If he scores 20 and when Chimera drops back to 12 and Wardo gets 18, Laich wont be hated so much.

But for now, lets just watch 20 RS games and talk about it again.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Joy, more anti-Laich agendas.

 

[Raikkonen]

Laich's contract sucks! Trade him for top6 winger already! You know who I mean (half-joking).

 

[Raikkonen]

About potential 2C in Kuz.

While Kuznetsov could be similar to Semin sometimes he should not be viewed as a same type of player imho. I see him different emotionally and I think it is a big deal for him to progress as a player and to win something big with a team. In a sense he will gladly learn and work on his game to achieve that big goal.

Still its too early to use him as C.

Even less bright idea would be to use Burakovski as C this fall.

I'm OK to start with MJ as 2C and Laich as 3C. Both guys need their chance.

GMBM should prepare to get established vet 2C later in the season ofc.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Laich makes this team significantly deeper and better if/when he's healthy and effective. If the Caps go far I'd wager that he's a big reason why.

 

[SimplySensational]

Joy, more anti-Laich agendas.

2 weeks from now you will be arguing that Burakovsky was sent to Hershey for development and not because Laich is overpaid.

 

[artilector]

Laich makes this team significantly deeper and better if/when he's healthy and effective. If the Caps go far I'd wager that he's a big reason why.

You don't pay 4.5m to be "deeper".

 

[artilector]

About potential 2C in Kuz.

While Kuznetsov could be similar to Semin sometimes he should not be viewed as a same type of player imho. I see him different emotionally and I think it is a big deal for him to progress as a player and to win something big with a team. In a sense he will gladly learn and work on his game to achieve that big goal.

Still its too early to use him as C.

Even less bright idea would be to use Burakovski as C this fall.

I'm OK to start with MJ as 2C and Laich as 3C. Both guys need their chance.

GMBM should prepare to get established vet 2C later in the season ofc.

That's all true, except I have concerns about Kuz at wing, as well. I think wingers are generally more exposed to big collisions, like when they have to chase down the puck in corners. Also, switching to wing is easier than switching to center, so in that sense it would be nice for Kuz to start at center, if at all possible.

Although, it does seem unlikely at this point that Kuz will start at center. Trotz said two things in his recent interview: 1. He thinks faceoffs are a huge component of the game, and 2. Kuz is not ready to take them. Which seems to imply that Kuz would have to be even more impressive in other components to get Trotz to trust him from the start.

 

[artilector]

Joy, more anti-Laich agendas.

Honestly, overall I find your posts quite reasonable, and I never quite understood why you think that Laich is an effective asset for this team. Really, what does he do that cheaper players like Chimmer/Ward can't do..?

 

[Raikkonen]

That's all true, except I have concerns about Kuz at wing, as well. I think wingers are generally more exposed to big collisions, like when they have to chase down the puck in corners. Also, switching to wing is easier than switching to center, so in that sense it would be nice for Kuz to start at center, if at all possible.

Although, it does seem unlikely at this point that Kuz will start at center. Trotz said two things in his recent interview: 1. He thinks faceoffs are a huge component of the game, and 2. Kuz is not ready to take them. Which seems to imply that Kuz would have to be even more impressive in other components to get Trotz to trust him from the start.

You can't shelter your 2C, I think.

With Kuz starting elsewhere his load could be altered to some degree.

One thing I'm strictly against - to play him at the first line. First line problem should be solved in different process.

Although if Backstrom and OV were separated maybe Kuz could play with Backstrom. But it should be tried not earlier than it's clear Backstrom and OV are better separated. Losing 1st line to help Kuz is silly obviously.


=> MJ at top-6 C would fix some holes for now. He could be interchangeable with NB.

=> Kuz could be tried as non-OV-other-winger in top-6

=> or as 3C with Chimmer and somebody big (Ward/Fehr/Brouwer/Wilson all OK actually).

 

[Raikkonen]

OV - NB/MJ - Ward/Brouwer
Laich - MJ/NB - Brouwer/Ward
Chimera - Kuz - Fehr
Brown - Latta - Wilson (hoho?)
idk

smth like that

 

[BobRouse]

Was reading an article on Japers that had a great breakdown:

http://brookslaichyear.com/2014/09/23/brooks-laich-and-troy-brouwer-only-one-can-fit-in-the-caps-top-6/

1. Apparently Trotz plans on keeping 8/19 together and Ward/Chimera combo.

2. It seems the battle for 2C is between Kuz/MJ and whoever sucks less at faceoffs will be the 2C with the other moved to 2LW.

3. Based on the analysis both Laich and Brouwer SUCK with 8/19 possession wise. Also they both SUCK MORE when together. That means only 1 will be in the top 6 if all goes right...Brouwer.

4. That leaves Laich at 3C, which while not optimal, is the best solution.

5. That would mean Fehr or Wilson at 1RW which I think we all want. Fehr and Backstrom both see their possession numbers go up when paired together.

6. Burakovsky then seems destined for Hershey and will be the first call up in case of injury in the top 6.

7. Latta was 7/11 on face offs the other night and scored a goal. With a one way contract and his play I'd say he's a lock on the 4th line. I really like his grit, defensive responsiblity, offensive flashes, hitting and he's def above average at FO.

So based on this its looking like:

Ovechkin/Backstrom/Fehr
Kuznetsov/MJ/Brouwer (MJ taking faceoffs on the left, Brouwer on right dot)
Chimera/Laich/Ward
Latta/Beagle/Wilson (when healthy and based on play could be swapped with Fehr)

 

[RandyHolt]

The wildcard to me, is Bura. He scored in the first game. Wowing the coaches goes a long ways to dictating lineups. In the modern era, stealing jobs is usually done by scoring goals. The odd fight doesn't do it anymore. There is little hitting, high grade passing etc. The games are choppy.

Trotz has taken over a full lineup but I have a feeling he may want a player he chose in the mix. Sure it likely will take an injury or a doghouse candidate to emerge to make room, but maybe he finds a way. If only via Wilson working his way back in.

Another smaller wildcard, is Latta. He scored. He was a Trotz guy in Nashville.

 

[txpd]

Really, what does he do that cheaper players like Chimmer/Ward can't do..?

I guess there isn't much point in listing those things because you won't agree with them. Trotz describes Laich as a quality LW2 and 3C. Neither of those other two are versatile like that. In his last healthy season he was 3rd on the team in average ice time among forwards.

maybe he just fools everyone in a position to give him a contract, give him ice time or talk about him in the hockey media.

 

[txpd]

The wildcard to me, is Bura. He scored in the first game. Wowing the coaches goes a long ways to dictating lineups. In the modern era, stealing jobs is usually done by scoring goals. The odd fight doesn't do it anymore. There is little hitting, high grade passing etc. The games are choppy.

Trotz has taken over a full lineup but I have a feeling he may want a player he chose in the mix. Sure it likely will take an injury or a doghouse candidate to emerge to make room, but maybe he finds a way. If only via Wilson working his way back in.

Another smaller wildcard, is Latta. He scored. He was a Trotz guy in Nashville.

Latta has to be nearly a lock. Meanwhile it appears that its nearly certain that Wilson will not be cleared for contact even by the start of the season. It might be a Brown makes the roster for 4th line duty as a result but, as BR suggests Wilson's spot might have been first line.

If Bura still looks like a top 6 NHL forward when the preseason games are mostly against veteran NHL players, he will start in the NHL.

 

[BobRouse]

I guess there isn't much point in listing those things because you won't agree with them. Trotz describes Laich as a quality LW2 and 3C. Neither of those other two are versatile like that. In his last healthy season he was 3rd on the team in average ice time among forwards.

maybe he just fools everyone in a position to give him a contract, give him ice time or talk about him in the hockey media.

Well he is dashingly handsome and suave. Me thinks Artilector is just jealous.

 

[Langway]

The wildcard to me, is Bura. He scored in the first game. Wowing the coaches goes a long ways to dictating lineups. In the modern era, stealing jobs is usually done by scoring goals. The odd fight doesn't do it anymore. There is little hitting, high grade passing etc. The games are choppy.

His receptiveness to coaching since he's been in development camp has to endear him to the staff as well. He's been tested and thus far at least has come through looking pretty good. We'll see how it goes against more structured, veteran teams. Trotz is likely looking for a similar response from one of Johansson/Kuznetsov and I'd hope one doesn't get the job by default if neither of them step up and make a statement. I don't think with Trotz it's so much scoring goals as being sound positionally and doing little things well. Let's not act as though there's some huge bar Burakovsky needs to pass either as this isn't a forward group with high-level habits.

Big picture there aren't enough Trotz type players. He'll try to manufacture them and steer them into becoming TTPs but it's an issue. He's going to need the D playing at a high level from the beginning and an approach that sticks with development throughout the season if they're going to take it to another level.

 

[BobRouse]

His receptiveness to coaching since he's been in development camp has to endear him to the staff as well. He's been tested and thus far at least has come through looking pretty good. We'll see how it goes against more structured, veteran teams. Trotz is likely looking for a similar response from one of Johansson/Kuznetsov and I'd hope one doesn't get the job by default if neither of them step up and make a statement. I don't think with Trotz it's so much scoring goals as being sound positionally and doing little things well. Let's not act as though there's some huge bar Burakovsky needs to pass either as this isn't a forward group with high-level habits.

Big picture there aren't enough Trotz type players. He'll try to manufacture them and steer them into becoming TTPs but it's an issue. He's going to need the D playing at a high level from the beginning and an approach that sticks with development throughout the season if they're going to take it to another level.

Well one thing going against him is that we have a ton of wingers and clearly the Caps want him at C.

Going 2/11 on faceoffs isn't going to help your cause since Trotz stressed the importance of faceoffs just the other day.

 

[Stewie G]

I guess there isn't much point in listing those things because you won't agree with them. Trotz describes Laich as a quality LW2 and 3C. Neither of those other two are versatile like that. In his last healthy season he was 3rd on the team in average ice time among forwards.

maybe he just fools everyone in a position to give him a contract, give him ice time or talk about him in the hockey media.

I didn't really expect you to answer. Par for the course.

Also, what do you expect the people who gave him his contract to say or do? They aren't going to badmouth a guy they had to pay another 5 years and they were too proud to cut his minutes. As far as those minutes go, he led the league's 21st ranked PK in ice time in his last healthy season and his 10 ESG was good for a tie for 182nd in the league and 8th on the team. I'd hope the 4th highest paid forward on the team would produce at a better rate than that.

IMO, he made his money being in the right place at the right time, more so than his overall skill level. Jonathan Cheechoo scored 50 goals by being in the right place at the right time. Ville Leino had a very similar season to Laich the year before they got their new contracts by playing on a productive Flyers team. Once BB moved on and the PP production dried up, his poor ES numbers really started to stand out. If my numbers are right, he has never been in the top 6 in ESG/60 on the team and has been closer to 8th or 9th. That's great if you're paying him 3C money. It's not if you're paying him borderline first line money, which was the case the first couple years of the deal.

I he had Joel Ward's contract, I don't think I'd ever have had a problem with him.

 

[HeyMattyB]

Was reading an article on Japers that had a great

So based on this its looking like:

Ovechkin/Backstrom/Fehr
Kuznetsov/MJ/Brouwer (MJ taking faceoffs on the left, Brouwer on right dot)
Chimera/Laich/Ward
Latta/Beagle/Wilson (when healthy and based on play could be swapped with Fehr)

I...I could live with that, I think. I mean, based on what the team currently has to work with. Still would rather see Mojo shipped out and a more proven/capable 2C brought in. But I think Kuzzy and Mojo would both have to have abysmal pre-season performances (not out of the question!) to force BMac's hand on the issue.

 

[BobRouse]

I...I could live with that, I think. I mean, based on what the team currently has to work with. Still would rather see Mojo shipped out and a more proven/capable 2C brought in. But I think Kuzzy and Mojo would both have to have abysmal pre-season performances (not out of the question!) to force BMac's hand on the issue.

This really is a make or break year for MJ. He's got to take another step.

I don't think it matters if they suck in preseason. The Caps are going with this lineup until further notice.

 

[txpd]

I didn't really expect you to answer. Par for the course.

Also, what do you expect the people who gave him his contract to say or do? They aren't going to badmouth a guy they had to pay another 5 years and they were too proud to cut his minutes. As far as those minutes go, he led the league's 21st ranked PK in ice time in his last healthy season and his 10 ESG was good for a tie for 182nd in the league and 8th on the team. I'd hope the 4th highest paid forward on the team would produce at a better rate than that.

IMO, he made his money being in the right place at the right time, more so than his overall skill level. Jonathan Cheechoo scored 50 goals by being in the right place at the right time. Ville Leino had a very similar season to Laich the year before they got their new contracts by playing on a productive Flyers team. Once BB moved on and the PP production dried up, his poor ES numbers really started to stand out. If my numbers are right, he has never been in the top 6 in ESG/60 on the team and has been closer to 8th or 9th. That's great if you're paying him 3C money. It's not if you're paying him borderline first line money, which was the case the first couple years of the deal.

I he had Joel Ward's contract, I don't think I'd ever have had a problem with him.

except up until last season almost everyone on this forum had a problem with Ward having the contract he has.

you make a good case based on numbers. the current coach describes him as a top 6 winger. the current coach has him in the leadership group. he doesn't seem to see him as a bad contract that needs to go. Its a common comment about the Caps from the media that they are a much better team with a healthy Brooks Laich in the lineup. He is a difference maker. He is not a favorite of mine really. Ward is and has been.

 

[txpd]

I...I could live with that, I think. I mean, based on what the team currently has to work with. Still would rather see Mojo shipped out and a more proven/capable 2C brought in. But I think Kuzzy and Mojo would both have to have abysmal pre-season performances (not out of the question!) to force BMac's hand on the issue.

I think BMac has said that 2c's don't grow on trees and other teams are not offering them up in trades. Not having a quality 2c is a common problem around the league.

I don't expect one to just show up here.