Prospect Info: 2014 Flyers prospect ranking: #1

[Sniped]

I said Morin, but I believe both Ghost and Sanehim could push for that #1 rating in the future.

 

[Curufinwe]

So Michael Parks and Oskar Lindblom post on this forum?

 

[FlyersFanz]

I chose Morin but still hope for Laughton

 

[Broad Street Elite]

Interesting consideration. I have the top 3 as Ghost, Laughton, and Morin. I think Ghost has the highest star potential, lowest floor (if his offense fails to translate). Laughton has the lowest ceiling, highest floor. Morin is in the middle on both because of his size, pedigree and skating for a big man, while still being raw and slightly immature. Sanhiem comes in right behind based on a very limited track record.

Been touting him for a while now, so I figure I'll ride the Gostisbehere train until I look stupid or like a genius. I fully believe he will be a major offensive threat (think 60+ point defenseman).

 

[StandingCow]

I couldn't really choose between Gostisbehere, Laughton and Morin.... I just went with ghost due to hype.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Interesting consideration. I have the top 3 as Ghost, Laughton, and Morin. I think Ghost has the highest star potential, lowest floor (if his offense fails to translate). Laughton has the lowest ceiling, highest floor. Morin is in the middle on both because of his size, pedigree and skating for a big man, while still being raw and slightly immature. Sanhiem comes in right behind based on a very limited track record.

Been touting him for a while now, so I figure I'll ride the Gostisbehere train until I look stupid or like a genius. I fully believe he will be a major offensive threat (think 60+ point defenseman).

Come on. There were two 60+ point guys this season...Karlsson and Keith. Two years before, just one (Karlsson). Three years prior, just two (Lidstrom and Visnovsky), and before that it was Green and Keith. So since 2009-10 (not counting lockout) there have been 7 60+ point defenseman...and Keith and Karlsson did twice. I would be thrilled if he turned out that way, but that is setting the bar WAY too high for a guy that has never played a professional game in his life.

 

[Protest]

Wow. This is tough. As tough as I can remember. I could make a case for Morin, Gostisbehere, and Sanheim. I don't even consider Laughton as our #1 guy as strange as that may seem. Some may take that as a dis, but I rank guys according to how likely I would be to trade them. I just think the upside of all 3 defenseman outweigh what Laughton may be. Homerism aside, I think all 3 could be #1 defensemen. Not exactly a probability for any of them, but certainly a possibility. I think there is a very good chance we will finally get our number 1 guy among this crop. The hard part for me is deciding who has the best chance.

Morin- On pure ceiling, he is #1 no doubt. He checks just about every box. His pure gifts are some of the best in all of junior hockey. He has the potential to dominate in all 3 zones. Whether he becomes a #1 will depend on how much he produces offensively. I was pretty optimistic about his offensive game going back to before he was even selected and I'm still optimistic, but he has to keep progressing.

Gostisbehere- he will have to produce offensively at not just a good level, but at an elite level to be considered a #1. I don't think he will be a liability defensively because he's too good of a skater, but I don't think his size will ever allow him to dominate like Morin could. His intangibles are off the charts though and that moves him up a few notches in my book.

Sanheim- This kid is just scratching the surface of his potential. He's a happy medium between Morin and Gostisbehere. Big frame. Great skater. Really smart. Really good puck skills. As he fills out, he's going to be scary. The only thing left to see is how his play carries over this season. I expect big things from him this year, but development wise he's behind the other two for obvious reasons. While Morin has the highest upside, I think Sanheim has a better probability of reaching his. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he is #1 on this list come next season. Really excited about his future.

I agree. Sanheim seems like the most well rounded player, and the guy that has the best ability to actually reach his potential. Gostisbehere and Morin each have major deficiencies that can hold them back from reaching their #1 potential.

For Gostisbehere it's his size, and how well his offensive game will translate. If he's not putting up 50+ points, he's probably not going to be considered a true #1 dman, unless he rounds out his game to be a similar player to Timonen. For Morin it's whether or not he'll provide any offense at the NHL level.

Sanheim has the size, skating, puck skills, and offensive ability to be a #1. There's no glaring obstacle in his way (other than the odds of actually becoming a #1 Dman in the NHL lol), whereas the other two have things we know they'll need to overcome.

At this point I'd put them like this:
1) Morin
2) Sanheim
3) Gostisbehere
4) Laughton
5) Hagg

But I wouldn't be surprised if Sanheim takes over the #1 spot.

 

[FlyersFanz]

I still think Hagg will surprise us Flyers fans...he has Timonen's vision and can log the minutes on the ice but with more size. I watched him closely at the Worlds and he is very mobile and not scared to use his body.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I still think Hagg will surprise us Flyers fans...he has Timonen's vision and can log the minutes on the ice but with more size. I watched him closely at the Worlds and he is very mobile and not scared to use his body.

Hagg's so much like former Flyer Eric Desjardins. He does everything well, but not one of his skills notably stand out. I don't know if he'll turn out to be as good as Desjardins was (he was probably the second best defenseman in the history of the Flyers - Mark Howe is still the greatest Flyers defenseman of all time), but his skill set is pretty similar to Eric's.

 

[DrHamburg]

How nice is this? Flyers actually have some good prospects...and look how many are D-Man prospects. I went with Laughton because I think at his bottom he is going to be a 3rd line center who can get 40-50 points a season and thats pretty damn good. But Morin probably has the highest ceiling. I think Ghost is going to be hit or miss, nothing in between. I am not familiar enough with Sanheim to say he is something or nothing.

 

[Patrick Division]

I went with Ghost. Re watching Frozen Four has me chomping at the bit for his skill on the big squad.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Haha, how do you even remember that? If Akeson is on the list I wouldn't put him ahead of Laughton. Also I'm not as big on Akeson as I was on MAB (and I really wasn't even that big on MAB...I don't really remember what my MAB-related posts were about last season...likely something to do with the fact that if not for injuries he'd be an NHL regular probably?).

Most felt he shouldn't be considered a prospect so nobody was voting for him later into the rankings but under HF's criteria he still didn't play enough games to not be considered one so he was an option.

I just remembered you making a fuss about it last year for whatever reason.

 

[Jack Straw]

I put Morin #1. He's still something of a project but that upside is just too much to ignore.

Otoh, I'm probably a bit more skeptical regarding Ghost than most here. I seriously wonder how well his offensive game will translate to the NHL. Granted I've only seen him in the WJC (not that impressive), the NCAA championship game (very impressive but he won't be able to do that in the NHL) and a couple games with the Phantoms at the end of the year. I want to see more of him in the AHL, playing against men, before I'm convinced that he will be more than a PP specialist type guy. I do think potentially he could turn out to be a Brian Rafalski type player, which would be great. But I need to see more of him against tougher competition than he faced in the NCAA.

 

[StoneHands]

When was the last time that the Flyers 5th best prospect (I'm assuming it will be Hagg) has a ceiling of a top pairing defenseman? I mean seriously, he's all but a lock to be 5th in this ranking and he's already played 2 years of high level professional hockey and then when he was barely 19 he put up 4 points in the final 10 games of the Phantoms season.

Just 2 years ago, this was our top 5 ranking and their projections at the time.
#1 Laughton
Ceiling: 2nd line center
Realistic: 3rd line 2-way center
#2 Cousins
Ceiling: 3rd line energy/pest winger
Realistic: Fringe NHLer
#3 Manning
Ceiling: #5 defenseman
Realistic: 7th defenseman/AHL defenseman
#4 Hovinen
Ceiling: Backup NHL Goalie
Realistic: AHL Starter
#5 Noebels
Ceiling: 3rd/4th liner
Realistic: AHL Player


Now we have
Laughton
Ceiling: 2nd liner center
Safe Prediction: 3rd line 2-way center
Morin
Ceiling: #1 defenseman
Safe prediction: #2/3 defenseman
Sanheim
Ceiling: #1 defenseman
Safe Prediction: #3 defenseman
Ghost
Ceiling: 1st pairing defenseman
Safe Prediction: #4 defenseman
Hagg
Ceiling: 1st pairing defenseman
Safe Prediction: #4 defenseman

 

[StoneHands]

Been touting him for a while now, so I figure I'll ride the Gostisbehere train until I look stupid or like a genius. I fully believe he will be a major offensive threat (think 60+ point defenseman).

Ghost barely projected to 60 points as a 20/21 year old college player. It's very unlikely that he'll be just as good in the NHL. I hope I'm wrong and he gets even better but I see him more as a 40-45 point defenseman with average defense, basically a #3/4 with top PP time.

 

[McNasty]

I put Morin #1. He's still something of a project but that upside is just too much to ignore.

Otoh, I'm probably a bit more skeptical regarding Ghost than most here. I seriously wonder how well his offensive game will translate to the NHL. Granted I've only seen him in the WJC (not that impressive), the NCAA championship game (very impressive but he won't be able to do that in the NHL) and a couple games with the Phantoms at the end of the year. I want to see more of him in the AHL, playing against men, before I'm convinced that he will be more than a PP specialist type guy. I do think potentially he could turn out to be a Brian Rafalski type player, which would be great. But I need to see more of him against tougher competition than he faced in the NCAA.

For me Gostisbehere has unquestionable offensive tools for the NHL level. I kind of think you're being unfair saying he can't replicate that NCAA Championship performance in the NHL, you can take any prospect playing outside the NHL and make a similar argument (for example Brayden Schenn's 2011 WJC). It doesn't mean I think he's going to be the next Brian Leetch, but I think it's an unfair argument to take a game he dominated and try to twist it by saying "well yeah but he's not going to do that in the NHL".

 

[Funf]

I'm not worried about Ghost's offense at all. He's so smart and skilled, I don't think it's going to be an issue for him. His biggest issue is his size. There aren't any top pairing defensemen in the NHL built like Ghost. I'm not saying he can't be one - there are guys like Duncan Keith who really don't rely on size or physicality to defend and make up for it with skating. Ghost would be a very unique case though, if he were to become that type of player for us.

I had to vote Laughton. I think Morin has the highest upside, but Laughton is a much safer pick. I really like Sanheim, too, but I'm trying to not be too biased about it. I know we only have a short sample size with him - but I think he'll be our #1 prospect by the end of next year.

 

[Jack Straw]

For me Gostisbehere has unquestionable offensive tools for the NHL level. I kind of think you're being unfair saying he can't replicate that NCAA Championship performance in the NHL, you can take any prospect playing outside the NHL and make a similar argument (for example Brayden Schenn's 2011 WJC). It doesn't mean I think he's going to be the next Brian Leetch, but I think it's an unfair argument to take a game he dominated and try to twist it by saying "well yeah but he's not going to do that in the NHL".

What I mean is, the kind of game he was able to play in the NCAA- the style, the stuff that worked at that level, most of that (from what I've seen) is not going to work against NHL players. In my opinion of course. I don't think that's unfair at all. By contrast, I think Hagg's game will translate well at the NHL level.

I would rate Ghost and Hagg about equally as prospects, Ghost probably has the higher ceiling but I think Hagg has a better chance to reach his ceiling. I'm basing this only off of what I've seen of them. Which is why I say I want to see more of Ghost at the AHL level. I could be wrong of course, but I have a fairly strong sense of the kind of player Hagg will be in the NHL. I don't have that feeling for Ghost yet.

 

[Jack Straw]

I'm not worried about Ghost's offense at all. He's so smart and skilled, I don't think it's going to be an issue for him. His biggest issue is his size. There aren't any top pairing defensemen in the NHL built like Ghost. I'm not saying he can't be one - there are guys like Duncan Keith who really don't rely on size or physicality to defend and make up for it with skating. Ghost would be a very unique case though, if he were to become that type of player for us. ...

Timonen? Rafalski? Karlsson?

 

[ILoveStephanieBrown]

LOL who voted for Michael Parks?

 

[McNasty]

When was the last time that the Flyers 5th best prospect (I'm assuming it will be Hagg) has a ceiling of a top pairing defenseman? I mean seriously, he's all but a lock to be 5th in this ranking and he's already played 2 years of high level professional hockey and then when he was barely 19 he put up 4 points in the final 10 games of the Phantoms season.

Now we have
Laughton
Ceiling: 2nd liner center
Safe Prediction: 3rd line 2-way center
Morin
Ceiling: #1 defenseman
Safe prediction: #2/3 defenseman
Sanheim
Ceiling: #1 defenseman
Safe Prediction: #3 defenseman
Ghost
Ceiling: 1st pairing defenseman
Safe Prediction: #4 defenseman
Hagg
Ceiling: 1st pairing defenseman
Safe Prediction: #4 defenseman

None of those are safe predictions, and I also think the ceilings of those players is a bit unrealistic. Don't get me wrong I agree with the point of your post, which is that it's nice that we have projectable defenseman in our system. However, I think we as fans are getting a bit carried away.

I see Hagg's ceiling as a Hjalmarsson type (perhaps with a bit more offense), a guy who just never really stands out and is just a very efficient 2nd pairing defenseman. Does everything well, but there isn't really any aspect of his game that is truly dominant.

Sanheim is still very raw, we hear him compared to McDonagh and get all giddy but considering the small sample size I think you're being really generous saying his safe prediction is a 2 or a 3.

Morin I'm excited to see what he does in the NHL. His mobility at that size is unreal, but again, his offensive game is still raw and like all men his size lateral movement can become an issue.

 

[FlyTimmo]

What I mean is, the kind of game he was able to play in the NCAA- the style, the stuff that worked at that level, most of that (from what I've seen) is not going to work against NHL players. In my opinion of course. I don't think that's unfair at all. By contrast, I think Hagg's game will translate well at the NHL level.

I would rate Ghost and Hagg about equally as prospects, Ghost probably has the higher ceiling but I think Hagg has a better chance to reach his ceiling. I'm basing this only off of what I've seen of them. Which is why I say I want to see more of Ghost at the AHL level. I could be wrong of course, but I have a fairly strong sense of the kind of player Hagg will be in the NHL. I don't have that feeling for Ghost yet.

The NCAA and the NHL are actually quite similar. Both leagues are very physical and heavily reliant on team play and good defense more so than the Junior leagues. I feel Ghosts game will translate very well to the NHL level. If you watch Ghost from his sophomore season to his junior season you would notice one giant difference in his game. In his second season, Ghost did whatever he wanted. He would join rush after rush and his style as a whole was very freewheeling. In his Junior year, he was not really more conservative rather he was just smarter. He picked his spots much better while improving his defense and he improved his passing game tremendously, becoming a stretch pass machine.

If he was still sophomore Ghost I could understand the uncertainty. But Junior Ghost is a much better player and he has really evolved his game into something that will translate well at the next level.

As for Hagg, I wasn't particularly impressed with his play this year, but I wasn't disappointed either, he is making steps in the right direction. I still feel his ceiling is too low to be ahead of someone with as much potential as Ghost.

 

[Jack Straw]

The NCAA and the NHL are actually quite similar. Both leagues are very physical and heavily reliant on team play and good defense more so than the Junior leagues. I feel Ghosts game will translate very well to the NHL level. If you watch Ghost from his sophomore season to his junior season you would notice one giant difference in his game. In his second season, Ghost did whatever he wanted. He would join rush after rush and freewheeling with puck. In his Junior year, he not really more conservative rather he was just smarter. He picked his spots much better and he improved his passing game tremendously, becoming a stretch pass machine.

If he was still sophomore Ghost I could understand the uncertainty. But Junior Ghost is a much better player and he has really evolved his game into something that will translate well at the next level.

As for Hagg, I wasn't particularly impressed with his play this year, but I wasn't disappointed either, he is making steps in the right direction. I still feel his ceiling is too low to be ahead of someone with as much potential as Ghost.

You've seen more of Ghost than I have so that's encouraging to hear. But NHL players are bigger, faster, and smarter than the NCAA. The talent gap isn't as big as it was back in the '70s and '80s, but it's still bigger than the CHL or the top European leagues. So that's where most of my skepticism comes from.

I'll be extremely happy to be convinced otherwise though.

As for Hagg, I know he had an up and down year in Sweden but I was quite impressed with him on the Phantoms (I watched all the games he played but one). I'd like to see a bit more offense from him though.

 

[StoneHands]

None of those are safe predictions, and I also think the ceilings of those players is a bit unrealistic. Don't get me wrong I agree with the point of your post, which is that it's nice that we have projectable defenseman in our system. However, I think we as fans are getting a bit carried away.

I see Hagg's ceiling as a Hjalmarsson type (perhaps with a bit more offense), a guy who just never really stands out and is just a very efficient 2nd pairing defenseman. Does everything well, but there isn't really any aspect of his game that is truly dominant.

Sanheim is still very raw, we hear him compared to McDonagh and get all giddy but considering the small sample size I think you're being really generous saying his safe prediction is a 2 or a 3.

Morin I'm excited to see what he does in the NHL. His mobility at that size is unreal, but again, his offensive game is still raw and like all men his size lateral movement can become an issue.

Just curious, which ceiling do you disagree with, you think best case scenario for one of more of those guys is not a 1st pairing defenseman? I know it's unlikely that they will all reach their ceiling but I find it hard to believe that the best case scenario for any of them is a 2nd paring defenseman.

As far as the safe prediction, that was more of my own predictions based on their ceiling and potential to reach it.

As far as Hagg goes, if he turns into Hjalmarsson with more offense (I assume you mean in the 30-35 point range), that would make him a top pairing defenseman. That would basically be what we hoped Coburn would be. I'll take that all day.

Also, to the OP. Add Kevin Goumas at some point. He's much better than guys like Parks and Fazleev at the very least.

 

[StoneHands]

You've seen more of Ghost than I have so that's encouraging to hear. But NHL players are bigger, faster, and smarter than the NCAA. The talent gap isn't as big as it was back in the '70s and '80s, but it's still bigger than the CHL or the top European leagues. So that's where most of my skepticism comes from.

I'll be extremely happy to be convinced otherwise though.

As for Hagg, I know he had an up and down year in Sweden but I was quite impressed with him on the Phantoms (I watched all the games he played but one). I'd like to see a bit more offense from him though.

The good thing about Ghost and that fact that his biggest question mark is his size is that he proved he could put up points and defend against bigger and older players than the CHL. If we had a defenseman that was undersized and putting up points in the Q I would question whether it would translate but he's able to defend and dominate larger players in the NCAA.