Prospect Info: 2014 Flyers prospect ranking: #1

[FlyTimmo]

You've seen more of Ghost than I have so that's encouraging to hear. But NHL players are bigger, faster, and smarter than the NCAA. The talent gap isn't as big as it was back in the '70s and '80s, but it's still bigger than the CHL or the top European leagues. So that's where most of my skepticism comes from.

I'll be extremely happy to be convinced otherwise though.

As for Hagg, I know he had an up and down year in Sweden but I was quite impressed with him on the Phantoms (I watched all the games he played but one). I'd like to see a bit more offense from him though.

Of course the NHL is bigger, faster and smarter. Then of course the solution for Ghost is to become bigger, faster, and smarter. His just turned 21 so, it would be weird to expect him not to improve.

 

[Stizzle]

Also, to the OP. Add Kevin Goumas at some point. He's much better than guys like Parks and Fazleev at the very least.

Goumas isn't even on an NHL contract, is he? He shouldn't be listed at all. The Flyers don't own his rights.

 

[Jack Straw]

Of course the NHL is bigger, faster and smarter. Then of course the solution for Ghost is to become bigger, faster, and smarter. His just turned 21 so, it would be weird to expect him not to improve.

Oh I never said that I don't expect him to improve. And I fully expect him to be an NHL player. At this point I'm not convinced he projects to a top pairing guy like some others here do. But like I said, I'm more than willing to be convinced otherwise. I just want to see more to base it on.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Definitely Morin.

 

[Jack Straw]

The good thing about Ghost and that fact that his biggest question mark is his size is that he proved he could put up points and defend against bigger and older players than the CHL. If we had a defenseman that was undersized and putting up points in the Q I would question whether it would translate but he's able to defend and dominate larger players in the NCAA.

But for me the biggest question is not his size. It's his style of play, particularly on offense. Again, based on what I've seen of him in the WJC, the Frozen Four, and a couple games with the Phantoms. Small sample size, I admit.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

As far as Hagg goes, if he turns into Hjalmarsson with more offense (I assume you mean in the 30-35 point range), that would make him a top pairing defenseman. That would basically be what we hoped Coburn would be. I'll take that all day.

Not necessarily, I am guessing you're looking at Hjalmarsson's career year in offensive totals last year instead of looking at his whole body of work when coming to that conclusion.

I don't see #1 potential in Hagg more like a #2-3 two way guy, solid in own end while putting up 20+ points consistently. I mean Voynov puts up 20+ points a year & even put 34 this year but no one would consider him a #1 so it's not necessarily about points.

 

[MadFerIt95*]

LOL who voted for Michael Parks?

I saw he had no votes and thought he might be getting lonely

 

[Curufinwe]

Goumas isn't even on an NHL contract, is he? He shouldn't be listed at all. The Flyers don't own his rights.

He's going to be at the 2014 Development Camp.


Forwards (12): Brandon Alderson, Nicolas Aube-Kubel, Nick Cousins, Radel Fazleev, Tyrell Goulbourne, Kevin Goumas, Scott Laughton, Taylor Leier, Oskar Lindblom, Derek Mathers, Michael Parks, Petr Straka.

Defensemen (13): Mark Alt, Terrence Amorosa, Steven Delisle, David Drake, Mark Friedman, Shayne Gostisbehere, Robert Hägg, Maxim Lamarche, Nick Luukko, Samuel Morin, Jesper Pettersson, Travis Sanheim, Reece Willcox.

Goaltenders (4): Tony Capobianco (unaffiliated invitee), Merrick Madsen, Ryan McKay (unaffiliated invitee) Antony Stolarz.

 

[The Rage Kage]

Based on size, I think morin is the safest bet of our top 3 dman prospects to make it to the NHL, I think his floor is around a 6/7, just because he has everything it seems but offense

 

[McNasty]

Just curious, which ceiling do you disagree with, you think best case scenario for one of more of those guys is not a 1st pairing defenseman? I know it's unlikely that they will all reach their ceiling but I find it hard to believe that the best case scenario for any of them is a 2nd paring defenseman.

As far as Hagg goes, if he turns into Hjalmarsson with more offense (I assume you mean in the 30-35 point range), that would make him a top pairing defenseman. That would basically be what we hoped Coburn would be. I'll take that all day.

I think Morin has a legitimate top pairing ceiling, his combination of size and mobility (and how he uses it to physically dominate smaller forwards) could allow him to be a dominant defender. His offensive game is raw but improving, I really can't wait to see him start playing in the NHL.

I don't think Gostisbehere will ever develop the defensive game to be considered a good top pairing defenseman so for him to have that type of ceiling I think you would have to believe he's capable of producing 50-60 points per year and I just don't think he's quite that good. I think Gostisbehere's ceiling is a good offensive 2nd pairing defenseman, kind of like how the Flyers use Streit. He'll QB a powerplay, get plenty of 5 on 5 minutes but he's never going to draw those shutdown assignments.

Hagg on the other hand I just think there's nothing truly elite about his game. I think he's good defensively and is a capable puck mover, but I don't really see him having anything more than average offensive upside. From what I've seen (admittedly a limited amount) he's mobile with a pretty good stick, but he never really strikes me as someone all that involved offensively.

Sanheim I can't comment much because I haven't really followed him a ton outside of reading all the post draft reports. I have a hard time putting my finger on him because he has such a small sample size.

 

[StoneHands]

Goumas isn't even on an NHL contract, is he? He shouldn't be listed at all. The Flyers don't own his rights.

He's signed with the Phantoms for this upcoming season, isnt he? I know he doesnt have an NHL contract but if he's signed with the Phantoms, why wouldnt he be considered a Flyers prospect?

Not necessarily, I am guessing you're looking at Hjalmarsson's career year in offensive totals last year instead of looking at his whole body of work when coming to that conclusion.

I don't see #1 potential in Hagg more like a #2-3 two way guy, solid in own end while putting up 20+ points consistently. I mean Voynov puts up 20+ points a year & even put 34 this year but no one would consider him a #1 so it's not necessarily about points.

I think most people think Hagg will put up more than 20 points a year in the NHL. Hjalmarsson had a career high in points this season but he was 26, just entering his prime, so it's not like he's been around for 10 years putting up Grossmann-like offense. If Hjalmarsson were on another team where he got even consistant 2nd PP time, I think he'd be consistantly around 25-30 points a year. That's why I assumed you meant Hagg would be around the 30-35 point area which I don't think is a crazy stretch. Even if Hjalmarsson put up 30 points a year, he would easily be a top pairing defenseman on most teams. It's not his fault he plays 2nd fiddle to Keith and Seabrook and even them he plays more ES minutes than Seabrook which says a lot.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I think most people think Hagg will put up more than 20 points a year in the NHL. Hjalmarsson had a career high in points this season but he was 26, just entering his prime, so it's not like he's been around for 10 years putting up Grossmann-like offense. If Hjalmarsson were on another team where he got even consistant 2nd PP time, I think he'd be consistantly around 25-30 points a year. That's why I assumed you meant Hagg would be around the 30-35 point area which I don't think is a crazy stretch. Even if Hjalmarsson put up 30 points a year, he would easily be a top pairing defenseman on most teams. It's not his fault he plays 2nd fiddle to Keith and Seabrook and even them he plays more ES minutes than Seabrook which says a lot.

If he was on a different team he might get the PP time but at the same token he wouldn't get the benefit of playing on arguably the best team in the league with a lot offensive fire power which could be a good cause for his production despite the lack of PP time.

Hjalmarsson made good stride's to round out his game this year but I'm not fully convinced he's made a turn for good there in that regards.

 

[Stizzle]

He's signed with the Phantoms for this upcoming season, isnt he? I know he doesnt have an NHL contract but if he's signed with the Phantoms, why wouldnt he be considered a Flyers prospect?

The Flyers don't own his rights. I'm sure there is an out clause with the Phantoms where he can up and sign with an NHL team any time he wants. He shouldn't be listed.

 

[Appleyard]

The big question with Hagg and offensive production for me is...

will he have the offensive IQ to play on the PP?

He has a great shot and a good pass, but he is not incisive offensively so he sometimes seems a step behind offensively, even though he has the tools.

Look at Coburn, was a 30 point D man when he PPed... but they realised it was not worth eating over 2 mins of his ice time a game on the PP when those minutes would be better utilised for the good of the team elsewhere, so they took him off it. He could still likely play #2 PP and put up 30 points a year, but it would be a detriment to the team.

Watching Hagg for another year (I had already seen some of him at MODO and WJC last year ofc) his defence impresses me more than his offence now... which is a reversal from the previous year, his gap control is now better... though he still ****s up royally with it at times, going from looking cool as a cucumber to an idiot in the space of a second, and he can be very nasty and physically assertive... he will be 6'2 and 220 when in the NHL as well I reckon.

Therefore I think the marker for if he will produce 30+ will be whether his offence means he has to be on a PP unit... otherwise he may well end up assigned to defensive duties and PKing for the good of the team. If he develops like that though I imagine he still gets some PP time occasionally due to his shot... though Ghost and Morin have great to good shots as well.

 

[StoneHands]

If he was on a different team he might get the PP time but at the same token he wouldn't get the benefit of playing on arguably the best team in the league with a lot offensive fire power which could be a good cause for his production despite the lack of PP time.

Hjalmarsson made good stride's to round out his game this year but I'm not fully convinced he's made a turn for good there in that regards.

Regardless of what Hjalmarsson could or couldnt be on another team, if Hagg has Hjalmarsson's defensive ability and can be a little better offensively, thats a 1st pairing defenseman, or a great #3 on a deep defense.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

The big question with Hagg and offensive production for me is...

will he have the offensive IQ to play on the PP?

He has a great shot and a good pass, but he is not incisive offensively so he sometimes seems a step behind offensively, even though he has the tools.

Look at Coburn, was a 30 point D man when he PPed... but they realised it was not worth eating over 2 mins of his ice time a game on the PP when those minutes would be better utilised for the good of the team elsewhere, so they took him off it. He could still likely play #2 PP and put up 30 points a year, but it would be a detriment to the team.

Watching Hagg for another year (I had already seen some of him at MODO and WJC last year ofc) his defence impresses me more than his offence now... which is a reversal from the previous year, his gap control is now better... though he still ****s up royally with it at times, going from looking cool as a cucumber to an idiot in the space of a second, and he can be very nasty and physically assertive... he will be 6'2 and 220 when in the NHL as well I reckon.

Therefore I think the marker for if he will produce 30+ will be whether his offence means he has to be on a PP unit... otherwise he may well end up assigned to defensive duties and PKing for the good of the team. If he develops like that though I imagine he still gets some PP time occasionally due to his shot... though Ghost and Morin have great to good shots as well.

I could see Streit, Ghost, Morin and Hagg on the point on the PP in the future.

 

[Broad Street Elite]

Come on. There were two 60+ point guys this season...Karlsson and Keith. Two years before, just one (Karlsson). Three years prior, just two (Lidstrom and Visnovsky), and before that it was Green and Keith. So since 2009-10 (not counting lockout) there have been 7 60+ point defenseman...and Keith and Karlsson did twice. I would be thrilled if he turned out that way, but that is setting the bar WAY too high for a guy that has never played a professional game in his life.

Like I said, I'm willing to ride or die with my view of Gostisbehere. I think he has the offensive upside of Keith or Visnovsky. I actually think that Keith is a reasonable comp for Ghost's upside. Do I expect him to put up 60 a year? No, but I think he's capable of it in a career year and will be consistently capable of 45-50 points. I've watched Gostisbehere a lot this year and I see a ton that I think translates at the next level. In an NHL where speed kills, I expect Ghost to be prolific. We'll see how right I am soon enough.

I bet he makes the team out of camp.