2014 Exit Meetings: On to the Off-season

I am not exposed

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Mar 16, 2014
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Also, I think we're going to go hard for Vanek. I doubt he comes here but he is the best UFA sniper.

A better option would be trading for a winger.

Reading the Oilers boards, Eberle's season was ranked as a C and many see him as the best trade bate.
 

Dread Clawz

LAWSonic Boom
Nov 25, 2006
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Dale rushed players because he really didn't have a choice, or they had nothing left to accomplish in juniors.

Huberdeau won the Calder and what more did he have to prove in juniors, we sent him down for the first year.

Gudbranson had nothing left to accomplish in juniors, he was dominating everyone with his size and although he could have used a year in the AHL the rules say he couldn't play there.

Bjugstad played 3 years in college and he was one of the best forwards this year, leading our team in points.

Barkov likely would have led us in points had he not been injured and everyone said he was NHL ready after the draft.

Kulikov was rushed, but not by Tallon.

Yep, Santos was excessive with the patience. Dale has the right amount. He sent Huby and Guddy back when they needed it. If it was up to Santos Guddy would still be in the AHL. I even pointed out a few times that Santos' interviews always clashed with Tallon's.
 

Howboutthempanthers

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Sep 11, 2012
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Dale rushed players because he really didn't have a choice, or they had nothing left to accomplish in juniors.

Huberdeau won the Calder and what more did he have to prove in juniors, we sent him down for the first year.

Gudbranson had nothing left to accomplish in juniors, he was dominating everyone with his size and although he could have used a year in the AHL the rules say he couldn't play there.

Bjugstad played 3 years in college and he was one of the best forwards this year, leading our team in points.

Barkov likely would have led us in points had he not been injured and everyone said he was NHL ready after the draft.

Kulikov was rushed, but not by Tallon.
Exactly. None of our prospects are getting rushed. The only one who came in and played played in the NHL right away was Barkov. And Barkov was ready. Kulikov absolutely was rushed, but like you said, he was rushed by the previous management.
 

EnforceTheLaus

In the Year of Our Hatter
Nov 3, 2013
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Like others have said, this wasn't just a moment for Tallon to say whatever he wanted; he was asked questions and he answered them. Questions were asked about Draisaitl (who I don't think we have any intention of drafting), Reinhart, and Bennett, but not Ekblad. I wouldn't read into that very much.

Yes, now until draft Tallon has his "poker face" on. I wouldn't take much stock on what he says about draftees until he is on the podium selecting.
 

I am not exposed

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Yes, now until draft Tallon has his "poker face" on. I wouldn't take much stock on what he says about draftees until he is on the podium selecting.

I remember they asked him questions about Drouin, Jones, and Mackinnon last year, and his responses were similar to how he responded about the draft players he was asked about this year. In other words stating what their positives are.
 

Dread Clawz

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I remember they asked him questions about Drouin, Jones, and Mackinnon last year, and his responses were similar to how he responded about the draft players he was asked about this year. In other words stating what their positives are.

Because you never know who you're going to be drafting. Someone may make him an unbelievable offer to trade down and it might be too good to refuse.
 

GrumpyKelly

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May 15, 2011
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Kind of disagree with the rushing part. Not sure if rushing is the right word but there usually isn't any harm done by letting the kids develop more. Instead of making them carry the load at an early age.

Nyquist is a good example in Detroit, coming out at 24 and putting a +30 goal season off the bat.
 

panthersfan94

#CatsAreComing
Jan 23, 2014
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Kind of disagree with the rushing part. Not sure if rushing is the right word but there usually isn't any harm done by letting the kids develop more. Instead of making them carry the load at an early age.

Nyquist is a good example in Detroit, coming out at 24 and putting a +30 goal season off the bat.

Most of them were done developing in juniors and had done just about all they could, so it was time for them to see what they could learn at the next level, the only one I could maybe agree with is Bjugstad (last year), but like I said earlier, he was one of the best forwards on this team this year (I know that's not saying much, but still); He took what he learned last year when he was up here and turned it around into being a very solid power forward this year.
 

Dread Clawz

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Kind of disagree with the rushing part. Not sure if rushing is the right word but there usually isn't any harm done by letting the kids develop more. Instead of making them carry the load at an early age.

Nyquist is a good example in Detroit, coming out at 24 and putting a +30 goal season off the bat.

Nyquist was a 7th round pick. He HAD to go to college and do a lot of developing.

Was MacKinnon rushed?

Dale hasn't really rushed anyone. This season, yeah we had to bring up some kids like Bjugstad earlier than we wanted because we had no one else in the system who could get the job done thanks to our cheap previous ownership. But he still almost got 20 goals. So he'll be fine.
 

FlaPanthers11

Cats Are Coming?
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It's not having them in the NHL at an early age that is a problem. It's making them carry the first line and ask them to do to much that is the problem. MacKinnon was sheltered this year, starting at wing and on the third line before slowly working his way up. He also has top level talent to help him develop. Barkov on the other hand was our first line center most of the year and was given too much of the load too early. Similarly, Bjugstad was our first line center after Barkov went down. These guys should be sheltered not thrown into the first line so early but we have no other options because of the lack of veteran talent which is because of the internal cap placed on Tallon.
 

Dread Clawz

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It's not having them in the NHL at an early age that is a problem. It's making them carry the first line and ask them to do to much that is the problem. MacKinnon was sheltered this year, starting at wing and on the third line before slowly working his way up. He also has top level talent to help him develop. Barkov on the other hand was our first line center most of the year and was given too much of the load too early. Similarly, Bjugstad was our first line center after Barkov went down. These guys should be sheltered not thrown into the first line so early but we have no other options because of the lack of veteran talent which is because of the internal cap placed on Tallon.

Agreed, thankfully that is changing now because of Viola.
 

I am not exposed

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Mar 16, 2014
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Vancouver
It's not having them in the NHL at an early age that is a problem. It's making them carry the first line and ask them to do to much that is the problem. MacKinnon was sheltered this year, starting at wing and on the third line before slowly working his way up. He also has top level talent to help him develop. Barkov on the other hand was our first line center most of the year and was given too much of the load too early. Similarly, Bjugstad was our first line center after Barkov went down. These guys should be sheltered not thrown into the first line so early but we have no other options because of the lack of veteran talent which is because of the internal cap placed on Tallon.

Well said.
 

CanadianPantherFan

Cats are Here!
Jun 6, 2004
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That was great intensity by Tallon at 16:00 mark " they better be pissed because I am". I've been more sold on Tallon than any coach here in past 3-5 years plus.
 

SoupyFIN

#OneTerritory
Nov 7, 2011
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^ PH probably had the players mixed up, Hossa was signed while Dale was still with the team, but it's widely considered to be Bowman's signing since DT wanted to sign Havlat. He got sacked (actually demoted to advisor, but he had no real power anymore) like three weeks later after that.
 

AwesomePanthers

Maybe next season
Aug 20, 2009
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lol at that reporter asking about Draisaitl. Wouldn't touch that guy in the top3. I don't really understand why he specifically asked about him.

If the Sabers take Reinhart, I hope we take Bennett over Ekblad.

Looking forward to July 1st.
 

Dread Clawz

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lol at that reporter asking about Draisaitl. Wouldn't touch that guy in the top3. I don't really understand why he specifically asked about him.

If the Sabres take Reinhart, I hope we take Bennett over Ekblad.

Looking forward to July 1st.

Draisaitl is considered by a few services as in the top tier with Ekblad, Reinhart, and Bennett.
 

EnforceTheLaus

In the Year of Our Hatter
Nov 3, 2013
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Finally got to read over the presser. Tallon does say today and tomm. we'll hear from the NCAA kids on who signs. Also he's heading to Europe this month to see prospects out there.
 

CoolburnIsGone

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I disagree with many of you saying Santos was wrong about the patience he was preaching and Tallon has plenty of patience. I also disagree that many of the prospects had nothing left to accomplish in juniors and weren't rushed. There was way too many guys rushed to the NHL too quickly, regardless of how relied upon they are in the lineup (and I'll ignore Kulikov since he was from a prior regime). Even if a prospect is physically NHL ready, it doesnt make them mentally or skill-wise ready for the NHL. And its even more magnified when you rely on them to be top players on the team so quickly.

Tallon was almost able to sign Gudbranson after being drafted and had his agent not played hardball, Guds would've been in the NHL and not sent back to juniors that first year. Still, he had (and still does) have room to improve on both sides of the puck. Defensively, he still needs to improve on his positioning and awareness. Much of that could've been done in juniors for an additional yr and probably allow him to spend last season in the AHL. He also needed to improve on the offensive side of things and only this season started to look even serviceable as a NHL defender. No way can anyone justify that he wouldn't have benefited from returning one more yr in juniors.

Huberdeau still could've worked on his skating and defensive side of the puck in juniors the rest of last season instead of bringing him up during a lockout season. Not to mention, he was basically injured most of last season with that hip situation from the WJC and needed surgery this offseason as a result. Having him play as long as we did on that last yr, it obviously set him back this season.

Bjugstad also should've been in the AHL this yr, no matter how successful he was. He slowed down later in the year due to not being accustomed to the length of the NHL schedule and he missed several games to start the season due to the concussion. He should've got acclimated to the longer schedule in the minors league first.

Shore was slightly rushed last yr as well due to injuries that occurred and he eventually showed it, struggling to put up points as the season wore on. Again, another player that should've been kept in the minors to adjust to the pro schedule for a season before getting the call.

Markstrom was also rushed last yr due to injuries and he obviously struggled in front of our porous defense. We probably damaged him as a prospect and thus why he's now gone from the org in favor of a more proven (and what he would aspire to be) in Luongo.

I'll reserve judgement on Barkov as he seemed to have all of the physically, mentally & skillsets to handle the NHL duties. Having played in a men's league last yr while leading his team probably had a large part in that aspect.

With how bad we were this yr (and it was obvious to everyone before the season started), there was no reason to rush prospects this yr for the finish we had as the 2nd to worst team in the NHL. We could've finished the same way having Gomez & Winchester consistently centering one of our lines as opposed to the prospects. Or call up any of the other guys from the AHL to fill holes when injures occurred (like Butler, Crabb, etc). Tallon has definitely been rushing our prospects more than they should be because he didnt have the players he had in place when he arrived in Chicago. He didnt have a Keith (who had 2 yrs in the AHL before Dale was named GM) or Seabrook (who spent 4 yrs in juniors) when he got here (guys who were more developed) as compared to Chicago and he also traded several scoring forwards almost right away (Vrbata, Havlat, Sharp). The only scoring forward he traded for early on here was Versteeg (Pirri may one too but not yet at least and farther down the rebuild path than his moves in Chicago) and he's already gone too.
 

Dread Clawz

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Nov 25, 2006
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I disagree with many of you saying Santos was wrong about the patience he was preaching and Tallon has plenty of patience. I also disagree that many of the prospects had nothing left to accomplish in juniors and weren't rushed. There was way too many guys rushed to the NHL too quickly, regardless of how relied upon they are in the lineup (and I'll ignore Kulikov since he was from a prior regime). Even if a prospect is physically NHL ready, it doesnt make them mentally or skill-wise ready for the NHL. And its even more magnified when you rely on them to be top players on the team so quickly.

Tallon was almost able to sign Gudbranson after being drafted and had his agent not played hardball, Guds would've been in the NHL and not sent back to juniors that first year. Still, he had (and still does) have room to improve on both sides of the puck. Defensively, he still needs to improve on his positioning and awareness. Much of that could've been done in juniors for an additional yr and probably allow him to spend last season in the AHL. He also needed to improve on the offensive side of things and only this season started to look even serviceable as a NHL defender. No way can anyone justify that he wouldn't have benefited from returning one more yr in juniors.

Huberdeau still could've worked on his skating and defensive side of the puck in juniors the rest of last season instead of bringing him up during a lockout season. Not to mention, he was basically injured most of last season with that hip situation from the WJC and needed surgery this offseason as a result. Having him play as long as we did on that last yr, it obviously set him back this season.

Bjugstad also should've been in the AHL this yr, no matter how successful he was. He slowed down later in the year due to not being accustomed to the length of the NHL schedule and he missed several games to start the season due to the concussion. He should've got acclimated to the longer schedule in the minors league first.

Shore was slightly rushed last yr as well due to injuries that occurred and he eventually showed it, struggling to put up points as the season wore on. Again, another player that should've been kept in the minors to adjust to the pro schedule for a season before getting the call.

Markstrom was also rushed last yr due to injuries and he obviously struggled in front of our porous defense. We probably damaged him as a prospect and thus why he's now gone from the org in favor of a more proven (and what he would aspire to be) in Luongo.

I'll reserve judgement on Barkov as he seemed to have all of the physically, mentally & skillsets to handle the NHL duties. Having played in a men's league last yr while leading his team probably had a large part in that aspect.

With how bad we were this yr (and it was obvious to everyone before the season started), there was no reason to rush prospects this yr for the finish we had as the 2nd to worst team in the NHL. We could've finished the same way having Gomez & Winchester consistently centering one of our lines as opposed to the prospects. Or call up any of the other guys from the AHL to fill holes when injures occurred (like Butler, Crabb, etc). Tallon has definitely been rushing our prospects more than they should be because he didnt have the players he had in place when he arrived in Chicago. He didnt have a Keith (who had 2 yrs in the AHL before Dale was named GM) or Seabrook (who spent 4 yrs in juniors) when he got here (guys who were more developed) as compared to Chicago and he also traded several scoring forwards almost right away (Vrbata, Havlat, Sharp). The only scoring forward he traded for early on here was Versteeg (Pirri may one too but not yet at least and farther down the rebuild path than his moves in Chicago) and he's already gone too.

And yet Huby still won the Calder last season, and Bjugstad still scored 16 goals this season and was our leading scorer. Could they have benefited from more time in lower levels? Sure. But you can look around the league at any team and say the same thing about some of their players. NHL teams want to win, that's the bottom line. The critical question is not would they have benefitted from more patience, but whether they were harmed by not being patient enough. And the answer is no, they were not damaged.

Shore was brought up because we really had no other options to call up. They would have been worse than Shore, and again, NHL teams want to win. Even if we weren't a great team the last couple years, NHL GMs still have a competitive nature. I don't think Shore was damaged either, and he looked great for stretch.

I think Markstrom would have been fine if we had shored up our defense last summer and been allowed to bring in some better offensive players which would have kept the pressure out of our zone more. But Tallon was handcuffed with the sale of the team and wasn't allowed to spend much. In 12-13 Markstrom had several great performances and looked great for a rookie goalie behind such a horrible team. His SV% was above .900 which is terrific considering the team he was playing behind.

But the continual barrage he faced, continuing into this season, I think wore him down. If the team had been stronger, I think he would have fared personally better.

It's been a great experience for Trocheck, Pirri, Howden, Shore, and Racine all late this season. How can you say it's been a negative? They've looked great, shown management what they have to offer so they can better make decisions heading into free agency, and gained some valuable experience. They weren't kept up for a whole season. If Santos was the GM none of them would have gotten a sniff. Tallon has the right barometer for this. There's no way that was a negative for these kids.
 

GrumpyKelly

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May 15, 2011
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Nyquist was a 7th round pick. He HAD to go to college and do a lot of developing.

Was MacKinnon rushed?

Dale hasn't really rushed anyone. This season, yeah we had to bring up some kids like Bjugstad earlier than we wanted because we had no one else in the system who could get the job done thanks to our cheap previous ownership. But he still almost got 20 goals. So he'll be fine.

Nyquist is a great story though. But the point was he could have easily made his mark two seasons ago but Detroit decided to develop him more (also was a contractual issue, they wanted to milk his elc out). Look at him now, the guy basically carried Detroit to playoffs and was on pace for almost 40 goals had he played the whole season. This in his "rookie" season. I mean are you kidding me... just amazing story.

Brandon Pirri is another example, this was his fifth year after the draft and Chicago still kept him in the minors even though he had been a PPG player for the last two seasons in the AHL. Albeit he had defensive issues, he still could have cracked their lineup at least as a winger.

The point is the top organizations develop their kids more than 1 year, even if they would be able to play in the nhl. Heck even DT said in the presser that they have had to force feed these kids to the lineup. It's just never a bad idea to develop kids more.

It's not having them in the NHL at an early age that is a problem. It's making them carry the first line and ask them to do to much that is the problem.

Yeah you said it better here. But it's not only that they play first or second line minutes, I think it's fine if you have a prospect like Barkov or MacK. But putting kids through a whole season of grind instead of giving them games here and there that probably isn't so helpful.

Hopefully though these days are in the past and they can bring quality vets so the kids don't have to be rushed.
 

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