2014 Exit Meetings: On to the Off-season

CoolburnIsGone

Guest
And yet Huby still won the Calder last season, and Bjugstad still scored 16 goals this season and was our leading scorer. Could they have benefited from more time in lower levels? Sure. But you can look around the league at any team and say the same thing about some of their players. NHL teams want to win, that's the bottom line. The critical question is not would they have benefitted from more patience, but whether they were harmed by not being patient enough. And the answer is no, they were not damaged.
I think its still too early to say that definitively. Huby, its entirely possible that he was damaged because of impatience, even if he won the Calder last yr. Heck guys like Raycroft won the Calder too so I dont use that as a measuring stick. Bjugstad may not have been "damaged" but maybe his ceiling could be higher if given additional development time. Just because a prospect wasn't "damaged", doesnt mean they weren't still rushed.
Shore was brought up because we really had no other options to call up. They would have been worse than Shore, and again, NHL teams want to win. Even if we weren't a great team the last couple years, NHL GMs still have a competitive nature. I don't think Shore was damaged either, and he looked great for stretch.
Yes we had other options and maybe they werent as talented as Shore but you never know till you give a guy a shot to see how he does. Rallo probably would've been a fine callup last yr in place of Shore, or go acquire a guy to fill-in. Sure we wanted to win last yr but it was obvious by the time we called up Shore that we were not that competitive team from the prior yr. Again, not about "damaged" as much as he was still rushed.
I think Markstrom would have been fine if we had shored up our defense last summer and been allowed to bring in some better offensive players which would have kept the pressure out of our zone more. But Tallon was handcuffed with the sale of the team and wasn't allowed to spend much. In 12-13 Markstrom had several great performances and looked great for a rookie goalie behind such a horrible team. His SV% was above .900 which is terrific considering the team he was playing behind.

But the continual barrage he faced, continuing into this season, I think wore him down. If the team had been stronger, I think he would have fared personally better.
I dont disagree that he would've benefited from a better team in front of him. But then why subject him to that when he shouldn't be? Call up DGM instead and let him suffer & struggle so that Markstrom wasnt damaged like he had been. There's really no contending that fact either, we damaged Markstrom with how we rushed him to the NHL, plain & simple.
It's been a great experience for Trocheck, Pirri, Howden, Shore, and Racine all late this season. How can you say it's been a negative? They've looked great, shown management what they have to offer so they can better make decisions heading into free agency, and gained some valuable experience. They weren't kept up for a whole season. If Santos was the GM none of them would have gotten a sniff. Tallon has the right barometer for this. There's no way that was a negative for these kids.
Sure its been a great experience but not all of those kids are just out of juniors either. Trocheck spent most of the season in the AHL...and he needed it too as he struggled later after a strong start. Pirri has spent several yrs in the AHL so he's not been rushed. Howden spent last yr in the AHL which was good but in his brief callup last season, you could tell he looked out of place (better this yr obviously). Racine got in 1 NHL game so I cant see how you can include him and he's obviously going to be in the AHL for at least 2 more yrs I'm sure. The org should be able to judge based on their play in the AHL whether they are closer to the NHL or not. If they cant get that from their play there, then we have much bigger problems then some kids getting rushed. I dont think we know for absolute certain that if Santos was GM that none would have gotten a sniff actually. But they definitely wouldnt have been called up until we were obviously out of the playoffs and then I'm sure they could still be evaluated in a short callup situation.
 

ucanthanzalthetruth

#CatsAreCooked
Jul 13, 2013
27,453
29,858
I think its still too early to say that definitively. Huby, its entirely possible that he was damaged because of impatience, even if he won the Calder last yr. Heck guys like Raycroft won the Calder too so I dont use that as a measuring stick.

Raycroft was an elite young player who had a devastating shoulder injury he never really recovered from.
 

Dread Clawz

LAWSonic Boom
Nov 25, 2006
27,337
8,724
Pennsylvania
I think its still too early to say that definitively. Huby, its entirely possible that he was damaged because of impatience, even if he won the Calder last yr. Heck guys like Raycroft won the Calder too so I dont use that as a measuring stick. Bjugstad may not have been "damaged" but maybe his ceiling could be higher if given additional development time. Just because a prospect wasn't "damaged", doesnt mean they weren't still rushed.

Yes we had other options and maybe they werent as talented as Shore but you never know till you give a guy a shot to see how he does. Rallo probably would've been a fine callup last yr in place of Shore, or go acquire a guy to fill-in. Sure we wanted to win last yr but it was obvious by the time we called up Shore that we were not that competitive team from the prior yr. Again, not about "damaged" as much as he was still rushed.

I dont disagree that he would've benefited from a better team in front of him. But then why subject him to that when he shouldn't be? Call up DGM instead and let him suffer & struggle so that Markstrom wasnt damaged like he had been. There's really no contending that fact either, we damaged Markstrom with how we rushed him to the NHL, plain & simple.

You're not being realistic. Call up DGM? Come on, no team does things like that.

Yeah, maybe Huby and Bjugstad would have higher ceilings if we kept them in the AHL for 5 years. Any player would. But no team does that. You're not being realistic, this is a results-based business. Is it going to hurt either of them long term? No, it won't. They are both going to be fine.

We already knew what Rallo could offer, and it wasn't much. And if you go out and acquire a top 9 center, it's going to cost you assets. I'm not debating whether Shore was rushed, he was. But who cares, it didn't hurt him. He spent most of this season in the AHL where he should have been.

Sure its been a great experience but not all of those kids are just out of juniors either. Trocheck spent most of the season in the AHL...and he needed it too as he struggled later after a strong start. Pirri has spent several yrs in the AHL so he's not been rushed. Howden spent last yr in the AHL which was good but in his brief callup last season, you could tell he looked out of place (better this yr obviously). Racine got in 1 NHL game so I cant see how you can include him and he's obviously going to be in the AHL for at least 2 more yrs I'm sure. The org should be able to judge based on their play in the AHL whether they are closer to the NHL or not. If they cant get that from their play there, then we have much bigger problems then some kids getting rushed. I dont think we know for absolute certain that if Santos was GM that none would have gotten a sniff actually. But they definitely wouldnt have been called up until we were obviously out of the playoffs and then I'm sure they could still be evaluated in a short callup situation.

It WAS an end of season call-up....Why are you placing so much importance on this? It was fun and now it's over with. It's not going to affect these kids negatively at all. You're reaching.
 

Erick*

Guest
Markstrom struggled, in large part, because he's not a good goaltender right now. That's all I'd like to add to the conversation. So glad we traded him for Luongo. Regardless of what we do this offseason, we at least know that we'll have an actual goalie in net next year. That's always a good start.
 

Erick*

Guest
flash is our leading scorer the last 2-3 years or whatever it was, one bad season with a whole lot of unlucky breaks think he's worth buying out?

4.5 mil for a 40-45p scorer is ridiculously cheap

No it isn't, especially when that 40-45p player is so one-dimensional.
Not that I want Flash gone though. If he can comeback to what he used to be, he's actually a 55-60p player which would be nice.
 

Erick*

Guest
Huge defenseman(6'4", 220) that can skate. Great agility for his size, great with the puck. He has an elephant gun of a slapshot, he also has a deadly and accurate wrist shot. He won't lead the rush most of the time, but he can skate with the puck when he has to and his long reach is an asset. Very smart on the PP. He's great in his own end, always makes the right play, great first pass. Always matched up against the opposition's top forwards.

Well, that's exactly what we need.
 

gudzilla

Registered User
Aug 9, 2012
5,337
2
No it isn't, especially when that 40-45p player is so one-dimensional.
Not that I want Flash gone though. If he can comeback to what he used to be, he's actually a 55-60p player which would be nice.

well, if you're considering him a 55-60p player, 4.5 mil is cheap. i just labeled him as 40-45p because some1 jumped me when i said 55-60p

he's one-dimensional, but he's a nice guy and he's the best offensive player we have, maybe not next year, but yet, he've been the best the last few years
 

Dr Beinfest

Registered User
Jun 11, 2012
3,859
2,873
Washington, DC
Well I don't think Fleischmann being nice holds any power in terms of business.

I don't think payment is a big deal right now though. What's more concerning is play. We aren't in cap trouble yet supposedly we will be spending soon enough. What Fleischmann makes doesn't bother me. How he performs does.

I'm all for moving him and signing a better, more with it winger. Our bottom lines are set, it is and it always has been out top two lines that are incomplete. A lot of our success when we won the division championship was in thanks to Versteeg, Fleischmann, and Weiss. All of which had fallen off the face of the earth for one reason or another.
 

Dread Clawz

LAWSonic Boom
Nov 25, 2006
27,337
8,724
Pennsylvania
Well I don't think Fleischmann being nice holds any power in terms of business.

I don't think payment is a big deal right now though. What's more concerning is play. We aren't in cap trouble yet supposedly we will be spending soon enough. What Fleischmann makes doesn't bother me. How he performs does.

I'm all for moving him and signing a better, more with it winger. Our bottom lines are set, it is and it always has been out top two lines that are incomplete. A lot of our success when we won the division championship was in thanks to Versteeg, Fleischmann, and Weiss. All of which had fallen off the face of the earth for one reason or another.

Yep, Flash is a goner IMO. He's so bad defensively that if he's not giving you 50-60 pts, then he's not worth having on the team. And there's no guarantee he'll score 50-60 pts next season. Plus he's so inconsistent. We need to acquire forwards who will show up for every game, not float through 5 games and then score 3 pts in a meaningless loss.
 

Dr Beinfest

Registered User
Jun 11, 2012
3,859
2,873
Washington, DC
We also need forwards that compliment the young guys.

The problem this past season I saw was that they were consistently the leaders. Barkov and Bjugstad performed just as well as Boyes and Upshall (and let's not mention Fleischmann here because he simply wasn't with it).

What offense Barkov and Bjugstad generated was their own doing, really. We need some players to come in and feed talent into those guys. Can't have the Gudbranson effect where playing with Jovanovski really hampers your growth because it's essentially all up to you to be great in the NHL from day 1, or face losing. We've done this in the past, and we're doing it again. Gotta buy in on someone.

Imagine Barkov using his vision to find a streaking Vanek who puts away a nasty shot. Nothing fancy on Barkov's part, but the havoc created by a dangerous sniper like Vanek really is synergistic. Barkov (or any talented player) becomes more dangerous by having a dangerous player on their line.
 

Mogo

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jun 26, 2002
24,765
8,996
If Dale said he wants to add two vet dmen. I hope that doesnt mean Gilbert counted as one of those two vet. If you look at the current roster

Kulikov, Campbell, Gudbranson are the only locks and ones that should play. If they do sign Gilbert hopefully they will add 2 REAL NHL dmen too
 

panthersfan94

#CatsAreComing
Jan 23, 2014
2,008
11
Nashville, TN
If Dale said he wants to add two vet dmen. I hope that doesnt mean Gilbert counted as one of those two vet. If you look at the current roster

Kulikov, Campbell, Gudbranson are the only locks and ones that should play. If they do sign Gilbert hopefully they will add 2 REAL NHL dmen too

I don't see any reason why Gilbert can't be a good 2nd or 3rd pairing d-man. Sign one to pair with Campbell and another one to play on the 2nd or 3rd pairing, if that happens to be Gilbert so be it. I'm on the draft Ekblad bandwagon and if we do our defense should look something like this:

Campbell-UFA
Kuli-Guds/Ekblad
UFA/Gilbert-Guds/Ekblad

Or if Ekblad is deemed to be not ready, replace him with Olsen or a UFA
 
Last edited:

ShootIt

Registered User
Nov 8, 2008
17,994
4,922
I rather go after a guy like Niskanen to pair with Campbell.

Campbell-Nisk
Kulikov-Guds
FA-Ekblad/Olsen/Petrovic
 

flapanthersfan

Registered User
May 5, 2010
2,755
129
Miami, FL
Andrew MacDonald just re-signed with the Flyers. He's the UFA d-man I wanted...lead the league in blocked shots, moves the puck well (30ish pts) and can eat up 25 mins a night.

That being said, 6 years $5mil is pretty steep a price. I was hoping we could nab him at $4mil
 

Effe

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
1,957
15
Gothenburg, Sweden
Andrew MacDonald just re-signed with the Flyers. He's the UFA d-man I wanted...lead the league in blocked shots, moves the puck well (30ish pts) and can eat up 25 mins a night.

That being said, 6 years $5mil is pretty steep a price. I was hoping we could nab him at $4mil

I would have loved to sign him aswell but that sounds like a huge overpayment for him.
 

RogerRoger

Registered User
Jul 23, 2013
5,126
2,662
I don't see any reason why Gilbert can't be a good 2nd or 3rd pairing d-man. Sign one to pair with Campbell and another one to play on the 2nd or 3rd pairing, if that happens to be Gilbert so be it. I'm on the draft Ekblad bandwagon and if we do our defense should look something like this:

Campbell-UFA
Kuli-Guds/Ekblad
UFA/Gilbert-Guds/Ekblad

Or if Ekblad is deemed to be not ready, replace him with Olsen or a UFA

We need a defensive dman on the third pairing, not a guy prone to turn over.

For those that want Niskanen, would you guys be ready to pay him 6M+ per year for a fairly long term deal?
 

RainingRats

Registered User
Dec 28, 2008
21,649
4,797
You guys can't want some of the best available d-men and not overpay. It doesn't work like that.
 

Dread Clawz

LAWSonic Boom
Nov 25, 2006
27,337
8,724
Pennsylvania
Yeah, see this is what I'm talking about. You need to pay out the nose for defensemen in free agency who aren't even top pairing guys. We'll never sign a #1 defenseman in free agency. Never. Take Ekblad.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad