Prospect Info: 2014 Draft - Which Sam do you prefer: Reinhart vs. Bennett

[Jim Bob]

I disagree, but fair argument. I think it is at least arguably Bennett is the best in the draft.

I'm sure there are dozens of highlights just like the last one of Milano from Bennett.I should without the goal at times.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=692446

Forward Sonny Milano is a big fan of 2013 Conn Smythe Trophy winner Patrick Kane.

It makes perfect sense, as Kane is an American and former standout for the United States National Team Development Program in Ann Arbor, Mich. Milano, born in Massapequa, N.Y., is currently starring for the U.S. Under-18 NTDP in the United States Hockey League.

"The reason I'm a big Patrick Kane fan is because I not only like the way he plays, but how he makes players around him better; how he can see the ice and make plays," Milano said. "That's how I want to be."

Milano will often display the offensive pop Kane showcases daily for the Stanley Cup champion Chicago Blackhawks, but don't think for a second he doesn't enjoy getting his hands dirty in the corners to help his teammates. Milano does bring an edge to his game.

"He probably has as much skill and puck skills as anyone I've coached in 15 years," USNTDP U-18 coach Danton Cole told NHL.com. "He does some amazing things with the puck."

He's small, but he has sick mitts.

 

[zbubble]

Last time the Sabres drafted this high, they took the smart, skilled, highly-touted Pierre Turgeon over the slightly less-skilled but more physical Brendan Shanahan.

Turgeon had a nice career with over 500 goals and a 5-time all-star, but he never won a Cup.

Shanahan scored over 650 goals, was an 8 time all-star, and won 3 Cups.

Shanhan's draft year with London Knights:

56 GP 39G 53A 92PTS 128PIM

Bennett's season this year with Kingston:

57GP 36G 55A 91PTS 118PIM

Of course Turgeon had mind-blowing numbers, albeit in the Q where defense was an afterthought, but he also only had 8 PIMs and never got his nose dirty. Reinhart similarly had 11 PIMs this year.

I'm not saying Reinhart is the next Turgeon and Bennett is the next Shanahan, but I am seeing some parallels based on some numbers that definitely give me the feeling we've been through this before.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Last time the Sabres drafted this high, they took the smart, skilled, highly-touted Pierre Turgeon over the slightly less-skilled but more physical Brendan Shanahan.

Turgeon had a nice career with over 500 goals and a 5-time all-star, but he never won a Cup.

Shanahan scored over 650 goals, was an 8 time all-star, and won 3 Cups.

Shanhan's draft year with London Knights:

56 GP 39G 53A 92PTS 128PIM

Bennett's season this year with Kingston:

57GP 36G 55A 91PTS 118PIM

Of course Turgeon had mind-blowing numbers, albeit in the Q where defense was an afterthought, but he also only had 8 PIMs and never got his nose dirty. Reinhart similarly had 11 PIMs this year.

I'm not saying Reinhart is the next Turgeon and Bennett is the next Shanahan, but I am seeing some parallels based on some numbers that definitely give me the feeling we've been through this before.

Not trying to give you a hard time, but that's a good example of how to lie with stats. Bennett and Shanahan are comparable to some extent, but Reinhart and Turgeon are very different types of players. Reinhart is not as soft as kitten fur like Turgeon was. I'm not worried at all that we're looking at a Turgeon/Shanahan scenario.

 

[Jim Bob]

The Sabres should have taken Reggie Leach in 1970 because he had more PIMs than that bum the Sabres took.

 

[zbubble]

The Sabres should have taken Reggie Leach in 1970 because he had more PIMs than that bum the Sabres took.

And Leach has his name on the Cup, but Perreault doesn't. Hmm....

 

[Jim Bob]

And Leach has his name on the Cup, but Perreault doesn't. Hmm....

Boston won it after they traded him to California.

#jinx

 

[zbubble]

Boston won it after they traded him to California.

#jinx

Huh? He won it with Philly when they beat the Sabres.

 

[zbubble]

Not trying to give you a hard time, but that's a good example of how to lie with stats. Bennett and Shanahan are comparable to some extent, but Reinhart and Turgeon are very different types of players. Reinhart is not as soft as kitten fur like Turgeon was. I'm not worried at all that we're looking at a Turgeon/Shanahan scenario.

WGR says "ANALYTICS!"

Seriously though, Reinhart might play the game tough, but he plays it extremely clean. I've watched almost every playoff game this year, and I don't think it can be overstated that the playoffs are a dirty game when the whistles get put away. I don't just want a guy that finishes checks, I want a guy that finishes a check and spears you in the kiwis as he skates away.

 

[joshjull]

WGR says "ANALYTICS!"

Seriously though, Reinhart might play the game tough, but he plays it extremely clean. I've watched almost every playoff game this year, and I don't think it can be overstated that the playoffs are a dirty game when the whistles get put away. I don't just want a guy that finishes checks, I want a guy that finishes a check and spears you in the kiwis as he skates away.

Girgs hardly took hardly any penalties this year (14mins). I'm sure you wouldn't consider him soft.

 

[Jim Bob]

Huh? He won it with Philly when they beat the Sabres.

How did that help the team that drafted him, the Bruins?

 

[Jim Bob]

Girgs hardly took hardly any penalties this year (14mins). I'm sure you wouldn't consider him soft.

That was exactly what I was thinking.

Throw RoR in there, too.

 

[zbubble]

Girgs hardly took hardly any penalties this year (14mins). I'm sure you wouldn't consider him soft.

Would you consider him tougher than Shanahan was?

 

[zbubble]

How did that help the team that drafted him, the Bruins?

How did drafting Perreault bring the Sabres a Cup? You're the one that brought the two of them up, I don't know why or where you're taking this.

 

[Jim Bob]

How did drafting Perreault bring the Sabres a Cup? You're the one that brought him up, I don't know why or where you're taking this.

My point is that just looking at PIMs between two draft prospects to try and break a tie is less than an exact science.

Heck, even with Shanahan, his biggest contribution to the team that drafted him was being trade compensation, really.

 

[zbubble]

My point is that just looking at PIMs between two draft prospects to try and break a tie is less than an exact science.

This is why I explicitly said I'm not calling Reinhart the next Turgeon or Bennett the next Shanhan, just that I noticed an eerie similarity in the numbers.

I swear some people just want to argue over nothing for the sake of arguing.

 

[Jim Bob]

This is why I explicitly said I'm not calling Reinhart the next Turgeon or Bennett the next Shanhan, just that I noticed an eerie similarity in the numbers.

I swear some people just want to argue over nothing for the sake of arguing.

Even the comparison has things that aren't that close with Sam vs Sam.

In 87, Shanahan was 2nd on the Knights in scoring & Turgeon led Granby by a wide margin.

This year, both Sams led their team in scoring.

In 87, Shanahan was 7 months older than Turgeon.

This year, Reinhart is 7 months older than Bennett.

Reinhart is the only one of the four to have 3 full CHL seasons under his belt on draft day.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Even the comparison has things that aren't that close with Sam vs Sam.

In 87, Shanahan was 2nd on the Knights in scoring & Turgeon led Granby by a wide margin.

This year, both Sams led their team in scoring.

In 87, Shanahan was 7 months older than Turgeon.

This year, Reinhart is 7 months older than Bennett.

Reinhart is the only one of the four to have 3 full CHL seasons under his belt on draft day.

Well, there goes the theory that Shanahan/Turgeon and Bennett/Reinhart are exact parallels of each other. Because that's obviously what his point is...

 

[Jim Bob]

Well, there goes the theory that Shanahan/Turgeon and Bennett/Reinhart are exact parallels of each other. Because that's obviously what his point is...

So what was the point?

I read it as the Sabres made a mistake taking Turgeon over Shanahan and that Shanahan's greater PIMs than Turgeon could point to Bennett being the pick over Reinhart this year.

All I'm saying is that there is a lot more to it than that and narrowing in on one stat difference between two top prospects over a quarter of a century ago may not be that telling with what the Sabres should do in 2014.

Personally, I think Hall vs Seguin is a better comparable and even that one is flawed because Hall is a winger and the more physical player that year was again the older player and this year it's the younger player that is more physical.

I think the stat that leans more in Bennett's favor is age. But even breaking things down that way doesn't always work out....

 

[DazedandConfused]

Yeah, I'm reading it as Shanahan would've been the better pick because he won cups and had more PIM.

Both great players, it then comes down to the management to build a complete team. In our situation I think Reinharts the better piece of the puzzle.

 

[Crazy Tasty]

So what was the point?

I read it as the Sabres made a mistake taking Turgeon over Shanahan and that Shanahan's greater PIMs than Turgeon could point to Bennett being the pick over Reinhart this year.

All I'm saying is that there is a lot more to it than that and narrowing in on one stat difference between two top prospects over a quarter of a century ago may not be that telling with what the Sabres should do in 2014.

Personally, I think Hall vs Seguin is a better comparable and even that one is flawed because Hall is a winger and the more physical player that year was again the older player and this year it's the younger player that is more physical.

I think the stat that leans more in Bennett's favor is age. But even breaking things down that way doesn't always work out....

I believe his point is that Bennett's style is conducive to NHL playoff hockey, whereas Reinhart's style is less so.

 

[Jim Bob]

I believe his point is that Bennett's style is conducive to NHL playoff hockey, whereas Reinhart's style is less so.

The irony is that Reinhart had the better playoff run than Bennett did this year.

 

[Crazy Tasty]

The irony is that Reinhart had the better playoff run than Bennett did this year.

It's only ironic if you consider the CHL playoffs to NHL playoffs comparable.

I'm not saying Reinhart is soft, that's not my opinion.
Just calling out what I think Z was saying.

 

[Jim Bob]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/nhl-prospect-hot-list-could-sam-bennett-go-first-overall/

Sam Bennett, C – Kingston Frontenacs (OHL)

Even though his season ended weeks ago and he couldn’t go to the under-18s due to a groin injury, Bennett’s stock is sky-high. The versatile pivot could quite possibly go first overall at the draft in Philadelphia and even if he doesn’t, Bennett’s combination of skill, strength and valor will have him in the NHL sooner than later. Even though he grew up a Toronto Maple Leafs fan, Bennett has been watching two out-of-towners for inspiration.

“I like Mike Richards and Jonathan Toews,†he said. “They’re great leaders, great players and they play a 200-foot game.â€

Bennett prides himself on his compete level and would like to improve on his overall strength, though to hear scouts talk, it’s already hard enough to get the puck off him. Had he been available, Canada might have done better than bronze at the under-18s. Last year, Bennett and former midget teammate Connor McDavid helped the Canucks win gold in Russia.

“That was my best hockey experience,†Bennett said. “We weren’t favored to win, but we rallied together. We got to play in the rink where the gold medal was won in Sochi, too.â€

In the off-season, Bennett enjoys wakeboarding and waterskiing, but he’s also excited when he gets to train with guru Andy O’Brien.

“I’ve met so many NHLers through him,†he said. “John Tavares, Jeff Skinner, Nathan MacKinnon…it’s great to see the work they put in.â€

And before long, some lucky NHL fan base is going to have the chance to see the work Bennett puts in on a long-term basis. Draft eligible in 2014.

 

[flashsabre]

This whole "Bennett is so tough and gritty, just look at his penalty minutes" train is going off the tracks.

A lot of Bennett's penalty minutes this year were from retaliatory penalties in which he was very undisciplined.

Bennett is a great prospect with a lot of great tools but continuing to push his penalty minutes as an example of what kind of playoff performer he will be is misguided.

The Sabres will be in great shape if they get either Sam.

 

[stokes84]

I believe his point is that Bennett's style is conducive to NHL playoff hockey, whereas Reinhart's style is less so.

Pat Kane's style isn't built for the playoffs, right?

Some of the best recent playoff performances have come from players who are completely the opposite of the stereotypes. These arguments need to die.