2014 Draft Thread Part Two

[B U F F A L O]

It means that the talk that the Isles had until they were on the clock to decide was bogus and that trade up scenarios that have to do with the Isles pick are more likely IF the Isles give up the pick in 2014.

The more interesting question is whether the drop dead date is before or after the lottery. I'm guessing it's after since there is a tie in to the top 10.

It means the people suggesting that the Islanders could defer the pick all the way up to the time they stepped on the podium during the draft, are incorrect.

Not only that, if the drop-dead date is before the lottery, the Isles could potentially win the lottery, but still be locked in on their decision of deferring or not.

Yep, got it now. The wording threw me off.

Whats for certain now, it seems that these type of "deferral" conditions also have their own timelines written into them. It will squash all future speculation as to "2 picks before" "until they are on the clock" etc...

Wasnt djp the main person saying before the draft and we gave him a ton of hell for that?

 

[Zip15]

The drop-dead date can't be before the lottery. The lottery has a direct effect on the condition.

EDIT: Before this turns into several pages of theoretical discussion why the decision may or may not have to be made before the lottery, the lottery in the last three full seasons has taken place between April 9 and April 13. The decision can be made after the lottery and still give the Sabres more than two months of notice.

 

[Zman5778]

Interesting. As per Tim Murray on WGR just now, the Isles decision on whether or not they defer the pick has a "drop dead date well before the draft". Whether or not that comes before the Draft lottery(when is that anyways?) wasn't mentioned.

Excellent.

So, each individual trade like this has different dates -- likely written into the language of the deal.....

That makes life easier on both sides.

 

[Jim Bob]

That's seriously really creepy. Get out of my head.

That is funny.

 

[1972]

The drop-dead date can't be before the lottery. The lottery has a direct effect on the condition.

EDIT: Before this turns into several pages of theoretical discussion why the decision may or may not have to be made before the lottery, the lottery in the last three full seasons has taken place between April 9 and April 13. The decision can be made after the lottery and still give the Sabres more than two months of notice.

I don't see how you could make a team decide before the U-18s and Memorial Cup. Have to think Isles decide sometime in june.

 

[Zip15]

I don't see how you could make a team decide before the U-18s and Memorial Cup. Have to think Isles decide sometime in june.

I'm guessing it's within a set amount of time after the conclusion of the Stanley Cup Finals. As Murray said, prepare like you're using the pick. If they defer, no big deal and you'll know you're getting the pick next season.

 

[BuffaloGooner]

Well that has me feeling better about trade scenarios if the Isles don't defer

 

[Selanne00008]

Yep, got it now. The wording threw me off.

Whats for certain now, it seems that these type of "deferral" conditions also have their own timelines written into them. It will squash all future speculation as to "2 picks before" "until they are on the clock" etc...

Wasnt djp the main person saying before the draft and we gave him a ton of hell for that?

Yeah that was djp.

He was right. We were wrong. He's the best... We're.... Not.

Either way great news. Even better if its before the lottery.

Last year the lottery was April 29, with the draft in late June.

 

[dotcommunism]

Yeah that was djp.

He was right. We were wrong. He's the best... We're.... Not.

Either way great news. Even better if its before the lottery.

Last year the lottery was April 29, with the draft in late June.

I'd rather be wrong due to using past precedent and trying to use evidence than right by sheer chance due to pulling stuff out of my ass

 

[Woodhouse]

The U18 4-Nations Tournament is underway in Russia. Yesterday, USA defeated Russia 5-2, with Glover, Larkin, and Milano among the eligibles in the game:

Team USA struck first just over one minute into the first period. Louie Belpedio (Skokie, Ill.) tallied the goal from Jack Eichel (North Chelmsford, Mass.) and Anders Bjork (Mequon, Wis.). The U.S. doubled its lead on the power play at the midway point when Jack Glover (Golden Valley, Minn.) found Larkin at the top of the right faceoff circle. Larkin wristed the shot into the net for the score. Eichel extended the lead, 3-0, taking a pass in the slot from Sonny Milano (Massapequa, N.Y.) and blasting the puck past the Russian netminder at 16:03.

Milano scored the second power-play marker for Team USA to open the middle stanza. Johnathan MacLeod (Dracut, Mass.) earned an assist on the play. The goal would stand as the lone tally of the period.

Team USA's third goal with the man advantage gave the U.S. a 5-0 cushion in the final frame. Larkin one-timed a pass into the cage from the right side of the net for the score. Ryan Hitchcock (Manhasset, N.Y.) and Glover collected helpers.

 

[internet toughguy]

This is like what Boston felt with Toronto's pick in 2010.

 

[MacOfNiagara]

This is like what Boston felt with Toronto's pick in 2010.

Yup. It's tanking without the guilt.

 

[jc17]

Would anybody still want the pick deferred if we were guaranteed Reinhart and Bennet?

 

[AirBriere48]

Would anybody still want the pick deferred if we were guaranteed Reinhart and Bennet?

No. That would never happen though.

 

[Paxon]

Would anybody still want the pick deferred if we were guaranteed Reinhart and Bennet?

I wouldn't, but I know some people would -- at least would have back when we all first started talking about the possibilities. The Isles are just such a middle-of-the-road team in most aspects. If they improve their goaltending and/or defense, along with the randomness of a season, they could easily finish much higher next year. Reinhart + Bennett + our pick in the mix next year would be very satisfactory to say the least.

 

[Zman5778]

Would anybody still want the pick deferred if we were guaranteed Reinhart and Bennet?

I'd rather take the "certainty" in Reinhart AND Bennett than hope that the Isles have another disappointing season.

For all we know, the Isles could sign Miller (or Hiller or Halak) to be a legit starter and sign one or two more FAs that click.....combined with another year of Strome, de Haan and Nelson developing......

There's a pretty solid chance that they're much better next year than this year.


Of course, nothing could happen, Snow and Wang continue to more or less ignore Free Agency and they could be worse.

 

[Insomniac99]

I'd rather take the "certainty" in Reinhart AND Bennett than hope that the Isles have another disappointing season.

For all we know, the Isles could sign Miller (or Hiller or Halak) to be a legit starter and sign one or two more FAs that click.....combined with another year of Strome, de Haan and Nelson developing......

There's a pretty solid chance that they're much better next year than this year.


Of course, nothing could happen, Snow and Wang continue to more or less ignore Free Agency and they could be worse.

I don't see them getting any flashy free agents this offseason. Vanek will be gone, I doub't Moulson signs there after being passed over, and Miller is likely going to the west. They have no where to go but down.

Defer!

 

[Zman5778]

I don't see them getting any flashy free agents this offseason

I'm pretty sure someone over there has gone on the record to say that this offseason they're going to start getting a team "ready" for when they go into Brooklyn. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Wang really open the coffers for a FA or two......possibly stupidly......but I think they're gonna TRY to throw some money around.

 

[Jacob582]

I'm pretty sure someone over there has gone on the record to say that this offseason they're going to start getting a team "ready" for when they go into Brooklyn. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Wang really open the coffers for a FA or two......possibly stupidly......but I think they're gonna TRY to throw some money around.

They tried throwing money at Vanek.

 

[Djp]

I'm pretty sure someone over there has gone on the record to say that this offseason they're going to start getting a team "ready" for when they go into Brooklyn. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Wang really open the coffers for a FA or two......possibly stupidly......but I think they're gonna TRY to throw some money around.

They tried throwing money at Vanek.

The issue with Vanek isnt with NYI---you see this in other sports---they reach free agency and they want to see what the market is like before the decide to commit. He wants to see who offers him what before he decides.

Its similar to marrying a second time. You been in a marriage of 10+ years that ended in a divorce you may not want to marry the first thing you see...but rather you want to play the field a little before you decide who you want to commit to.

 

[Insomniac99]

I'm pretty sure someone over there has gone on the record to say that this offseason they're going to start getting a team "ready" for when they go into Brooklyn. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Wang really open the coffers for a FA or two......possibly stupidly......but I think they're gonna TRY to throw some money around.

Yeah I certainly agree. I just think they're going to have a hard time actually getting them to sign.

 

[Djp]

I'd rather be wrong due to using past precedent and trying to use evidence than right by sheer chance due to pulling stuff out of my ass

I wasnt pulling stuff out of my ass.....

Think about this for a second....

If its a top 10 pick and you know you already have 3 2nd round picks you have the ammo to trade up to an even higher pick and turn a pick that was 7-9 into another top 5 pick. Do you even want them to have until the clock is on to decide? Would you even agree to that? No GM would,

as GM, If I have to wait until the clock starts on the pick I have no trade value in the pick in terms of trading up either using it to package with the other pick to move up or to move that pick up with the 2nd round picks. If this a top 10 pick I will want to know a few weeks before if I have it or not because it affects trade strategy and how I would approach the scouting combine.

If I only have a top 3 pick I will just focus on the top 5 players and talk to them and not waste time with those that seemed to be 6-15. those players 6-15 i would need to care about if I were to have another high 1st round ---thus that changes my strategy and planning for the combine and draft planning. GMs job lives/dies on success/failure of top 10-12 picks.

Sure a team may opt to let the team decide closer to the pick of whether to defer it because it doesnt really matter, and its unlikely, the team would have interest in trading up with the pick were the pick mid 2nd or worse. They are looking at taking the BPA and not looking to trade up.

Nonis said in their trade with LA that the 14 or 15 2nd that goes to LA--they have to decide before the 2nd round starts.

 

[Paxon]

I wasnt pulling stuff out of my ass.....

Think about this for a second....

If its a top 10 pick and you know you already have 3 2nd round picks you have the ammo to trade up to an even higher pick and turn a pick that was 7-9 into another top 5 pick. Do you even want them to have until the clock is on to decide? Would you even agree to that? No GM would,

as GM, If I have to wait until the clock starts on the pick I have no trade value in the pick in terms of trading up either using it to package with the other pick to move up or to move that pick up with the 2nd round picks. If this a top 10 pick I will want to know a few weeks before if I have it or not because it affects trade strategy and how I would approach the scouting combine.

If I only have a top 3 pick I will just focus on the top 5 players and talk to them and not waste time with those that seemed to be 6-15. those players 6-15 i would need to care about if I were to have another high 1st round ---thus that changes my strategy and planning for the combine and draft planning. GMs job lives/dies on success/failure of top 10-12 picks.

Sure a team may opt to let the team decide closer to the pick of whether to defer it because it doesnt really matter, and its unlikely, the team would have interest in trading up with the pick were the pick mid 2nd or worse. They are looking at taking the BPA and not looking to trade up.

Nonis said in their trade with LA that the 14 or 15 2nd that goes to LA--they have to decide before the 2nd round starts.

You say you weren't pulling stuff out of your ass but then your entire comment illustrates how you arrived at the ass you pulled stuff out of.

 

[Havok89]

I wasnt pulling stuff out of my ass.....

Think about this for a second....

If its a top 10 pick and you know you already have 3 2nd round picks you have the ammo to trade up to an even higher pick and turn a pick that was 7-9 into another top 5 pick. Do you even want them to have until the clock is on to decide? Would you even agree to that? No GM would,

as GM, If I have to wait until the clock starts on the pick I have no trade value in the pick in terms of trading up either using it to package with the other pick to move up or to move that pick up with the 2nd round picks. If this a top 10 pick I will want to know a few weeks before if I have it or not because it affects trade strategy and how I would approach the scouting combine.

If I only have a top 3 pick I will just focus on the top 5 players and talk to them and not waste time with those that seemed to be 6-15. those players 6-15 i would need to care about if I were to have another high 1st round ---thus that changes my strategy and planning for the combine and draft planning. GMs job lives/dies on success/failure of top 10-12 picks.

Sure a team may opt to let the team decide closer to the pick of whether to defer it because it doesnt really matter, and its unlikely, the team would have interest in trading up with the pick were the pick mid 2nd or worse. They are looking at taking the BPA and not looking to trade up.

Nonis said in their trade with LA that the 14 or 15 2nd that goes to LA--they have to decide before the 2nd round starts.

Youre only looking at this from Buffalo's point of view. It makes complete sense for the Islanders to get to wait to see who is in the board before they defer.

Quite frankly, you through **** against the wall and it stuck. You had little to no evidence to support your claim. Even LeBrun seemed to be wrong on this one.

 

[TehDoak]

Re: Isles pick

I'd much rather have the Isles 2015 pick than the 2014 pick at this point.

I think its a given that top 5, they'll be opting till next years draft.

The Isles won't be moving to Barclay's center until 2016, so, Wang isn't going to have incentive to spend next year either. And sure, if they are able to solidify their goalie position and D, maybe the are out of the top 10 next year and in the middling 11-20 range pick. But, when all is said and done, we're likely to have at least 1 more 2014 pick in the mid-late 1st, if not 2-3 more, not to mention the 3 2nd's we already have.

McDavid lotto aside, spreading the wealth a bit between years is a good way to space out prospects/development.