Salary Cap: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster Building / Proposal Thread Part XII

[Vitto79]

So those that complain about Stralman realize they he signed for 2 more yes than Boyle so you think the cap is tight now? It allows them to sign stepan , Staal etc long term

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

He's definitely the player to get if we want to win this year and can make it work!

Unfortunately, when thee stars are aligned in his favor, he leads his team to abrupt failure.

 

[egelband]

Resolved how? Dan Boyle has 9 points in 30 games.

Last year, d-men contributed with with 130 points during the regular season. This year? On pace for a whopping 131 (132 if being generous).

Yes, the Rangers have a higher GF/G this year, but I'd say that has a lot more to do with Rick Nash than Dan Boyle.

Dan Boyle, in my opinion, has been great. Mostly. He has been snakebit. But definitely a threat. I expect big things from him and MSL down the stretch.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

Well that certainly makes Joe Thornton possible - with implications of losing key players next year.

Outside of the cap the main problem in my opinion with Thornton is the fact he is another pass first guy. I would like to see a shoot first kinda guy come in to the team instead

 

[RangerBoy]

Brooks touched on the cap

Which is why it is patently absurd to assume the NHLPA is going to vote to adopt the 5-percent escalator next season. And though it is true the union and the league have to both agree not to implement the inflator, it is difficult to imagine Sixth Avenue insisting on increasing the cap if the players vote against it.

Even if the owners have kind of made a habit of reaching into the players’ pockets whenever the opportunity presents itself.

If escrow is going to be the campaign’s single issue, and if players are going to vote their own individual interests as was the case last year regarding both Canadian television revenue and the make-whole mechanism, then it is difficult to imagine the PA will endorse the escalator, regardless of executive director Don Fehr’s counsel.

For by my calculation, of the approximately 780 players on NHL rosters over the last three weeks, 530 are under contract for next year while 250 are set to become free agents.

In other words, 530 who would gain personally by having lower escrow in 2015-16 and 250 who would gain personally by having more cap space available next summer for free agents.

http://nypost.com/2015/01/31/loonie-bin-tying-nhl-salary-cap-to-canadian-dollar-unfair/

James Mirtle tweeted the same thing before Brooks wrote it





Larry also wrote about the Rangers situation

The Rangers are at $52.375 million for next season for two goaltenders, five defensemen and six forwards. You can make book on the fact prospective salary-arbitration eligible Group II Derek Stepan will get between $5.75 million and $6.5 million per depending upon the length of his deal. Just check out Stepan’s numbers against the Avalanche’s Ryan O’Reilly, awarded $6 million in salary arbitration.

This means, a) the Blueshirts will be restricted going into the deadline, and, b) they likely are to be restricted when it comes to signing both Martin St. Louis and Mats Zuccarello, both of whom are pending free agents, neither of whom is having a particularly good season and with neither of whom have the Rangers made any progress toward an extension.

Brooks wrote the cap without the 5% is $68.1M with an 80 cent loonie. Mirtle has the number at $68.4M without the bump. The loonie closed at .78542 on Friday.

The cap was supposed to be $71.1M this season. The loonie dropped. The NHL tried to get the TV money into the cap and the players rejected it. $69M. The loonie has collapsed this season. The players are getting hammered on escrow. The NHL has always downplayed the loonie. When the loonie increased during the 2005 CBA,the NHL would credit the strength of their league. Same thing now. Don't worry.

Derek Stepan is averaging nearly .7 points per game in his career. .6981. ROR is averaging .5518 points per game in his career.

Salaries are not going to decrease either which is what someone wrote here a few weeks ago. The cap not being set in the low 70's will result in lower salaries. Really? The player will get his share and the team will work around it. Just like with the $70.2M cap in 12-13 shrinking to $64.3M in 13-14. The feeling was all of the players will have their salaries rolled back to reflect that change or salaries going forward would decrease. Really? Teams made adjustments for the $64.3M cap. The cap went from $64.3M to $69M this season. This time the cap will either decrease or remain flat without the bump. If you have a contract,why would you agree to lose your money because of a higher cap? Some of those unsigned players wouldn't be in the league next season anyway because they will be replaced by younger and cheaper players. It happens every year.

 

[Ola]

Sather ****ed up letting Stralman go.

Maybe, maybe not. We need a not decent or capable but real sharp offensive punch from the blue line.

If we had real avg goaltending we look to improve that; same with defense; same with scoring upfront etc etc etc. We need to do the same with offense from the back end. If you don't have a punch on the blueline teams will give up the points and take away all space down low making it impossible for our forwards to score.

But it's real problematic to let players go in their prime in favor of 40 y/o:s, otoh. If the kid in their prime keeps doing well 6-8 years from now, and it's a flaw you have down the road, in hindsight it becomes a real head scratcher.

 

[Ola]

Awsome stuff RB.

To give a complete picture I want to add one thing though. More players have always been under contract than not under contract. More members has always loosed more on voting on the escalator, than not.

STILL, the PA has all years but one (two?) voted on the escalator. Reading the above one might think "why on earth would they vote on that?" That is not correct of course, voting on the escalator is obviously the right thing to do and the PA has done the right thing all years but one and there was special reasons that year.

Why vote in favor of the escalator?

1. Of the 500 players under contract, a large majority has signed deals under caps that has been inflated by the escalator. They have benefitted when signing the contract, and by voting no now they deny this years FAs that opertunity. That is downright unfair.

2. The PA has always voted in favor of the escalator, save for last year, because it benefits their members as a group a lot AND in the long run its fair for everyone. First of all it lessens the impact of the cap, not the least from a social POV since it causes it's members and their families to move and what not. Second of all, the cap is anti systemical in an environment where it's not growing. It's human nature to expect an increase in salary, that's a proven fact that ppl have won a Nobel price proving. Every year a number of players become free agents, and they expect a raise. The best players will get their raise, which leaves even less room for the rest of the free agents. Hence a fairly large minority of the PA is screwed a lot that year.

My point is just, it's seems doubtful that the Union will in fact vote for the escalator. But since it obviously is the right thing to that and something the PA has done almost all other years it easy to not get the full picture just reading what Brooksie and Mirtle is writing.

 

[cd211]

still this stralman talk.. unbelievable.. we're top 5 in GA and some of you still talk about this bs.. GIVE IT UP.. We don't really need stralman.. Having flexability back there when Boyle contract ends is HUGE.. We're really counting on Skjei and McIrath IMO, and thats what we need to happen if we want to be successful..

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

still this stralman talk.. unbelievable.. we're top 5 in GA and some of you still talk about this bs.. GIVE IT UP.. We don't really need stralman.. Having flexability back there when Boyle contract ends is HUGE.. We're really counting on Skjei and McIrath IMO, and thats what we need to happen if we want to be successful..

GA is so misleading, considering how many goals Henrik himself has probably saved on his own.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Ottawa Sun quote (according to SNYRangers) - "when Ottawa called about Vermette the price 'may have been' Curtis Lazar or another top prospect"...

Wow, incredible journalism right there.

 

[RangerBoy]

Awsome stuff RB.

To give a complete picture I want to add one thing though. More players have always been under contract than not under contract. More members has always loosed more on voting on the escalator, than not.

STILL, the PA has all years but one (two?) voted on the escalator. Reading the above one might think "why on earth would they vote on that?" That is not correct of course, voting on the escalator is obviously the right thing to do and the PA has done the right thing all years but one and there was special reasons that year.

Why vote in favor of the escalator?

1. Of the 500 players under contract, a large majority has signed deals under caps that has been inflated by the escalator. They have benefitted when signing the contract, and by voting no now they deny this years FAs that opertunity. That is downright unfair.

2. The PA has always voted in favor of the escalator, save for last year, because it benefits their members as a group a lot AND in the long run its fair for everyone. First of all it lessens the impact of the cap, not the least from a social POV since it causes it's members and their families to move and what not. Second of all, the cap is anti systemical in an environment where it's not growing. It's human nature to expect an increase in salary, that's a proven fact that ppl have won a Nobel price proving. Every year a number of players become free agents, and they expect a raise. The best players will get their raise, which leaves even less room for the rest of the free agents. Hence a fairly large minority of the PA is screwed a lot that year.

My point is just, it's seems doubtful that the Union will in fact vote for the escalator. But since it obviously is the right thing to that and something the PA has done almost all other years it easy to not get the full picture just reading what Brooksie and Mirtle is writing.

Do you really think the players under contract care about the players who are not under contract for next season? Some of the players not under contract will not have to wait long to sign a contract. They will be signed the first few days of July. Every summer you see unsigned players never get another opportunity with the cap going up. That's a matter of players getting older and/or not good enough to play in the league anymore. None of the Rangers say I will take less so the Rangers can re-sign one of my teammates. The players could have increased the cap for this season with the extra TV money but they didn't. It would have meant more money for some of the unsigned players but the players didn't look at it that way.

Brooks wrote there have been 780 players on NHL players in the last 3 weeks. 530 are players with contracts. 250 are unsigned players for next season. How many of those 250 will get NHL contracts next season? Every team has young guys on entry level contracts ready to replace them.

Have the players voted against the 5% in previous years?

“Given that the value of player contracts is and has remained less than the full face-value of their contracts over the last few seasons, players will certainly discuss over the next few months whether to continue to maintain the 5-percent growth factor every year,†NHLPA spokesman Jonathan Weatherdon said.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/...ould-care-about-the-plunging-canadian-dollar/

"Yes it is," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said. "The CBA actually contemplates the 5 percent as standard. I don’t anticipate that’s going to be an issue. Because I think the players’ association wants to make sure where the cap goes, as well, because it’s in their interest to do it. I don’t anticipate any issue on the 5 percent inflator."

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/...ate-on-salary-cap-expansion-and-outdoor-games

The way I read those two quotes is the NHLPA has always voted for the 5%. The NHLPA uses language like "maintain the 5-percent growth factor every year" and Daly calls the 5% "standard".

 

[TheTakedown]

I would like to see this next game:

Nash-Stepan-Miller/Stempniak
Hagelin-Brassard-MSL
Kreider-Hayes-Zucc
Fast-Moore-Stempniak/Miller

These lines make sense... here's why

Line 1. It's about time Stepan and Nash were put back together. Step's IQ is too high to not be playing with Nash this year. Miller might not be cut out for those 1st line duties, but Stempniak has the ability to drive possession. Step has a tendency to make players better when he plays with them. We have a guy who is very good and competent at everything--let's get him some playing time to produce offense. Just so happens that our top goal scorer thrives with players that drive possession--Stempniak turns out to be one of our top possession players.

Line 2: Hagelin and MSL are GREAT when they play together. Hagelin's board work is great, and since he drives possession he's able to get the puck to the players who can finish the play and put the puck in the net. MSL can do that on a regular basis. Brassard has really matured into a solid #2 Centerman... Put MSL there. Hagelin's speed negates the lack of size.

Line 3: The BC line. let's keep it where it is. Keeps Zucc away from top competition, and gives him more room with the puck. Zucc and Hayes drive possession BIG TIME, while Hayes has such soft hands on the puck. Combined with Kreider finishing, it's a no brainer. can't believe I never thought of this.

Line 4: Miller and Stempniak are interchangeable at this point, they are both versatile wingers. Miller can be, and should be physical with his play. the 4th line is a great place to do that. Fast and Moore are a great combo. I happen to like the chemistry of Moore and Stempniak, but I'd like to see what Stemp can do in a higher role anyway, so Miller most likely stays in this spot.

We need to get another top 9 forward who can play on a regular basis, and Glass needs to be shipped out to a bottom feeder no later than July 2nd, preferably by the deadline

THIS is spreading the depth. THIS is distributing talent on the roster, not loading it up into the top 6 and just accepting that when your top 6 slumps you just have to forfeit games. We can't have that happen. Every line needs a set of tools to produce offensively while playing sound defensively. Notice that each of these lines have an solid/elite defensive player (Stepan/Nash, Hagelin, Zucc, Moore).

 

[Ola]

Do you really think the players under contract care about the players who are not under contract for next season? Some of the players not under contract will not have to wait long to sign a contract. They will be signed the first few days of July. Every summer you see unsigned players never get another opportunity with the cap going up. That's a matter of players getting older and/or not good enough to play in the league anymore. None of the Rangers say I will take less so the Rangers can re-sign one of my teammates. The players could have increased the cap for this season with the extra TV money but they didn't. It would have meant more money for some of the unsigned players but the players didn't look at it that way.

Brooks wrote there have been 780 players on NHL players in the last 3 weeks. 530 are players with contracts. 250 are unsigned players for next season. How many of those 250 will get NHL contracts next season? Every team has young guys on entry level contracts ready to replace them.

Have the players voted against the 5% in previous years?



http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/...ould-care-about-the-plunging-canadian-dollar/



http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/...ate-on-salary-cap-expansion-and-outdoor-games

The way I read those two quotes is the NHLPA has always voted for the 5%. The NHLPA uses language like "maintain the 5-percent growth factor every year" and Daly calls the 5% "standard".

Yeah, there are arguments for not voting for it for sure, and given how escrow has grown after the cap going down its a bigger issue. Somewhere a long the line escrow becomes a problem, it fools the players.

But my point was just this, a huge majority of players -- not -- benefitting of the escalator has voted in favor of it to my knowledge 7-8 times and against it 1, with the same arguments on the table.

Thx as always for keeping us updated !!

 

[Ola]

Hanzal is the player out there that excites me.

From my POV, you need a USP -- in lack of better words -- to be successful. Our USP a is a little weak in my opinion right now. We are reslient defensively, we have star players offensively and guys that can break the pattern, but we are not big and we are not that good offensively. To put it like this, you need to play to your strengths and when we are playing to our strengths it might be a bit weak against the best teams in our conference.

Size does matter in hockey. You do not need to be the biggest teams on avg, there is nothing wrong with a small forward or D, but you need forwards who are big and can use their size in different ways and you need Ds that can clear the crease.

There are very few big centers out there, and we are on the small side up front on avg. Hanzal has awsome size and he is a good smart hockey player that is tough to play against. He has his best years infront of him. Not the least, he has 2 years left -- on a very good contract.

I think the suggested offer going the other way, JT Miller, John Moore and a 2nd, might be a bit short to push Maloney into dealing him. If that is the price I would pull the trigger and then deal Hagelin in the offseason.

I would also make room for Hanzal in the lineup by moving Derrick Brassard to the wing. That would make us really big at center ice and with Stepans clutch game that strength of ours would be hard to match by other teams in our conference.

Lineup this/next year:
Brass-Hanzal-Nash //West Coast size, good skill. Brass has played a lot of LW in his career, and compliments Hanzal real well and knows Nash.
Duclair/Hagelin-Stepan-MSL//Duke should get a big role next year.
Kreider-Hayes-Zucc//A line I think can be the best on the ice on occasion against many teams next year. Also a really big and. Strong line that will cause concern for teams like Tampa and the Islanders, Zucc brains is crucial though...
Glass/X-Moore-Fast

 

[bobbop]

Hanzal is available. That is different from past years. I see Hanzal play every night and no question I'd include JT any others in a deal for him. Very valuable and affordable long term piece. He would give the Rangers a 3 deep at center they could keep together for years.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

Hanzal is available. That is different from past years. I see Hanzal play every night and no question I'd include JT any others in a deal for him. Very valuable and affordable long term piece. He would give the Rangers a 3 deep at center they could keep together for years.

I agree 100%! He would be a huge addition up the middle( pun intended) and would immediately become our top face off weapon.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I would like to see this next game:

Nash-Stepan-Miller/Stempniak
Hagelin-Brassard-MSL
Kreider-Hayes-Zucc
Fast-Moore-Stempniak/Miller

These lines make sense... here's why

Line 1. It's about time Stepan and Nash were put back together. Step's IQ is too high to not be playing with Nash this year. Miller might not be cut out for those 1st line duties, but Stempniak has the ability to drive possession. Step has a tendency to make players better when he plays with them. We have a guy who is very good and competent at everything--let's get him some playing time to produce offense. Just so happens that our top goal scorer thrives with players that drive possession--Stempniak turns out to be one of our top possession players.

Line 2: Hagelin and MSL are GREAT when they play together. Hagelin's board work is great, and since he drives possession he's able to get the puck to the players who can finish the play and put the puck in the net. MSL can do that on a regular basis. Brassard has really matured into a solid #2 Centerman... Put MSL there. Hagelin's speed negates the lack of size.

Line 3: The BC line. let's keep it where it is. Keeps Zucc away from top competition, and gives him more room with the puck. Zucc and Hayes drive possession BIG TIME, while Hayes has such soft hands on the puck. Combined with Kreider finishing, it's a no brainer. can't believe I never thought of this.

Line 4: Miller and Stempniak are interchangeable at this point, they are both versatile wingers. Miller can be, and should be physical with his play. the 4th line is a great place to do that. Fast and Moore are a great combo. I happen to like the chemistry of Moore and Stempniak, but I'd like to see what Stemp can do in a higher role anyway, so Miller most likely stays in this spot.

We need to get another top 9 forward who can play on a regular basis, and Glass needs to be shipped out to a bottom feeder no later than July 2nd, preferably by the deadline

THIS is spreading the depth. THIS is distributing talent on the roster, not loading it up into the top 6 and just accepting that when your top 6 slumps you just have to forfeit games. We can't have that happen. Every line needs a set of tools to produce offensively while playing sound defensively. Notice that each of these lines have an solid/elite defensive player (Stepan/Nash, Hagelin, Zucc, Moore).

Love this lineup. Also completely agree it's weird I never thought about Kreider-Hayes_Zucc before. Kreider and Zucc always seem to mesh.

EDIT - and while I would hate to give up on Miller, Hanzal is the type of piece that would make me think about it. Cost controlled, not a rental. Big C who can take FOs, match up against anyone, and put up points. Only concern (and it's legitimate enough to give me pause) is durability. Hanzal 1000x over Vermette if we are talking about giving up Miller.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

Ottawa Sun quote (according to SNYRangers) - "when Ottawa called about Vermette the price 'may have been' Curtis Lazar or another top prospect"...

Wow, incredible journalism right there.

Lirl Curtis Lazar for Vermette?!?

That's insane...

 

[Raspewtin]

Hanzal is available. That is different from past years. I see Hanzal play every night and no question I'd include JT any others in a deal for him. Very valuable and affordable long term piece. He would give the Rangers a 3 deep at center they could keep together for years.

For Hanzal I give up Miller for sure. He's young, cost controlled, and would make your center depth A+.

I think someone could beat us with in a bidding war though.

 

[Raspewtin]

Lirl Curtis Lazar for Vermette?!?

That's insane...

TBH I think Lazar is kind of overrated as a prospect, but a Lazar for Vermette would be a horrible trade for Ottawa.

 

[haveandare]

Hanzal is available. That is different from past years. I see Hanzal play every night and no question I'd include JT any others in a deal for him. Very valuable and affordable long term piece. He would give the Rangers a 3 deep at center they could keep together for years.

I get the logic, but boy, trading a guy like Miller who can provide top 9 NHL minutes for pennies on the dollar is hard to swallow given the impending cap situation and Duke and Buch not being sure things to make the jump right away.

 

[Raspewtin]

I get the logic, but boy, trading a guy like Miller who can provide top 9 NHL minutes for pennies on the dollar is hard to swallow given the impending cap situation and Duke and Buch not being sure things to make the jump right away.

Hanzal makes under 4 mill a year and has 2 more years after this one on his deal IIRC. Not as bad as it seems.

 

[haveandare]

Hanzal makes under 4 mill a year and has 2 more years after this one on his deal IIRC. Not as bad as it seems.

Yeah, I get that. It's not taking Hanzal's money back that worries me, it's losing the space that having Miller as a top 9 wing would provide.

For example, Hagelin or Zucc is a cap casualty, and who takes those minutes? Duke or Buch could, but Miller would be a more certain bet IMO with a ~1m cap hit for while.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

TBH I think Lazar is kind of overrated as a prospect, but a Lazar for Vermette would be a horrible trade for Ottawa.

He's still probably one of their top prospects, I equate it to asking for Butch,Duke, or Skjei

 

[LeetchisGod]

Hanzal's lengthy injury history is a concern for me.