Salary Cap: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster Building / Proposal Thread Part XI

[NYRFANMANI]

Oscar Lindberg is supposed to be great at faceoffs... Why can't we try to use him? He's also defensive minded like Fast, I dunno what his point production would be though.

One point every three games would be my guess.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Oscar Lindberg is supposed to be great at faceoffs... Why can't we try to use him? He's also defensive minded like Fast, I dunno what his point production would be though.

They already have 2 rookies in the lineup and Miller who doesn't qualify by definition, but has yet to play a full NHL season. I don't think AV would be interested in adding another.

Possible he makes it as a 4th liner next season, but I personally have major doubts about him being a part of this teams plans going forward.

 

[pld459666]

One point every three games would be my guess.

career best maybe.

if he came up now, his production would probably be very similar to that of Fast. Maybe less.

1 point every 5 games

 

[pld459666]

They already have 2 rookies in the lineup and Miller who doesn't qualify by definition, but has yet to play a full NHL season. I don't think AV would be interested in adding another.

Possible he makes it as a 4th liner next season, but I personally have major doubts about him being a part of this teams plans going forward.

agreed.

Marginal 4th liners, while having a roll on teams are easy to come by.

Hopefully Arizona misses him and wants him back as part of a deal for Vermette.

 

[silverfish]

One point every three games would be my guess.

Yeah, he's just above 1 point every 2 games in the AHL, so this checks out.

 

[True Blue]

Ideally, a 3rd line center with size who can win face offs would be best. I would also see if one can cheaply upgrade from Hunwick.

 

[Inferno]

He isn't saying MSL is a worthless player. No one challenges how unbelievably talented MSL is. Martin St Louis's main skills are his guile and finishing.

However, some of the worst NYR shifts of the entire season have involved MSL's line being pinned in the defensive zone. When a team cycles in the Rangers defensive zone w/ MSL on the ice, I simply cringe.

MSL will make some amazing passes and steal the puck w/ straight up hockey sense/awareness, but we've seen Zuccarello retrieve pucks and possession, many times, in plays he has no business in statistically in even trying.

Every single interview w/ opposing coaches, they stress "how fast" the Rangers are as a team. Hagelin's production is almost moot, as it stretches how teams line up and account for this team. Quick defensive zone exits and moving the puck down ice w/ possesion at break-neck speed has given opposing teams absolute fits.

I agree w/ Inferno that replacing (even though last resort for all of us) a finisher (MSL) may be an easier task than replacing players that excel at 'Ranger's/AV Hockey' -- especially considering a pipeline w/ Duclair/Buch.

Yeah, and i think its doubly bad because Kreider is a fairly awful defensive player himself. so having MSL and Kreider out there together, is always a scary thought when they get pinned. I think that accounts for a lot of why Stepans underlying advanced stats might be where they are...he's essentially playing defense for 3 people. I'd love to put MSL with 2 guys who can play a 200 foot game. Perhaps guys like Hagelin & Hayes.

 

[Raspewtin]

As much as I'd like to give Lindberg a shot, 4 rookies in the lineup at once, and really no spot for him, would be my guess why he's not here.

 

[TheTakedown]

Yeah, and i think its doubly bad because Kreider is a fairly awful defensive player himself. so having MSL and Kreider out there together, is always a scary thought when they get pinned. I think that accounts for a lot of why Stepans underlying advanced stats might be where they are...he's essentially playing defense for 3 people. I'd love to put MSL with 2 guys who can play a 200 foot game. Perhaps guys like Hagelin & Hayes.

I know, that's why I am saying AV should try Miller or Stempniak on Stepan's right...

Stepan has the IQ to work with both Kreider and Hagelins speed, so I wouldn't be opposed to either of these lineups:

Nash-Brass-Zucc -- Per usual
Kreider-Stepan-Stempniak/Miller -- Tons of size, speed, and lots of possession
Hagelin-Hayes-MSL -- MSL is pure finish here, alleviates his defensive responsibilities and offensive matchups
Fast-Moore-Stempniak/Miller -- Per usual

OR

Nash-Brass-Zucc -- Per usual
Hagelin-Stepan-MSL -- Lots of speed, little loss of size, and MSL is up against 1st/2nd line competition again, but still lots of possession
Kreider-Hayes-Stempniak -- Not sure how this balances out... Kreider can't play defense, but on the 3rd line he goes up against 3rd line competition, which allows him to showcase his speed
Miller-Moore-Fast - Per usual

Would not be opposed to making the middle six this:

Hagelin-Stepan-Stempniak
Kreider-Hayes-MSL

I realize this is a lot of line mix ups. just throwing ideas out there

 

[silverfish]

Kreider-Hayes-Stempniak -- Not sure how this balances out... Kreider can't play defense, but on the 3rd line he goes up against 3rd line competition, which allows him to showcase his speed

I don't mean to pick at something so specific in your post, but there's something to this.

Just think back to the Ottawa game the other night. Karlsson was keeping up with Kreider, because he was out there against Stepan and MSL.

There's no chance in ****ing hell that Karlsson would be out against CK if he was playing with Hayes and Stempniak.

It's a really good point.

Question remains: Are Hayes or Stempniak good enough playmakers to find Kreider streaking up the left-side and put the puck on his tape like Stepan or Marty can?

I don't think so.

 

[TheTakedown]

I don't mean to pick at something so specific in your post, but there's something to this.

Just think back to the Ottawa game the other night. Karlsson was keeping up with Kreider, because he was out there against Stepan and MSL.

There's no chance in ****ing hell that Karlsson would be out against CK if he was playing with Hayes and Stempniak.

It's a really good point.

Question remains: Are Hayes or Stempniak good enough playmakers to find Kreider streaking up the left-side and put the puck on his tape like Stepan or Marty can?

I don't think so.

I can agree, which is why I'd try Miller in that spot and put Stempniak on the 1st/2nd line, and MSL on the subsequently remaining one

MSL on the 3rd line is FINE. he can absolutely defend against that type of competition

I know how backwards this sounds, but the line up is still a bit too top heavy. Balancing it not only gives out easier work loads to top 6 capable players, but it also allows more flexibility when rolling lines. you have a threat on each line

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Brooks speculates that Miller would be wanted as the core of a package for Vermette.

If that happens there will be a long string of explitives coming from my keyboard. Insane to give him up for a pure rental.

 

[silverfish]

Brooks speculates that Miller would be wanted as the core of a package for Vermette.

If that happens there will be a long string of explitives coming from my keyboard. Insane to give him up for a pure rental.

So many factors here...

If Stoll or Santorelli are on the table for cheaper, and we can get them, I don't trade Miller for Vermette.

If LA isn't trading Stoll, and Santorelli has gone elsewhere or Toronto is asking for something ridiculous...

I'd ship JT for Vermette.

Again, this isn't just my personal vendetta against JT, as you all may think it is. This is my thought that I'm ready for Sather to go balls to the wall if he needs to, to add the piece he feels may put the Rangers over the top. I'm okay with this line of thinking as long as Henrik Lundqvist is playing to an elite level, which he is right now.

*runs and hides*

 

[NYRangerFan*]

Forget Vermette if Miller is the main piece. Get a cheaper player, Santorelli or something like that.

 

[Doctyl]

JT would be such an overpayment for a guy who will only be here a couple months

 

[bobbop]

Stoll not available. Kings still trying to move Mike Richards

 

[Krams]

I would've been willing to part with JT for Vermette a few months ago, but what I've seen from Miller since then has made me realize that I was being short sighted.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Brooks speculates that Miller would be wanted as the core of a package for Vermette.

If that happens there will be a long string of explitives coming from my keyboard. Insane to give him up for a pure rental.

Well Maloney might as well ask...

Doesn't mean thats what he'll end up getting. What ever Vermette goes for will be less than the value of a JT Miller. When was the last time that a Pure Rental (who wasn't an elite player) returned value like that?

At the very most, I can see Vermette going for what Pominville went for which was a first, a second, a b prospect and a crappy goalie, but thats only if the bidding gets really heavy.

 

[True Blue]

Brooks speculates that Miller would be wanted as the core of a package for Vermette.

If that happens there will be a long string of explitives coming from my keyboard. Insane to give him up for a pure rental.

I agree. Cannot just give away draft picks or young players for rentals. And the team has given away enough picks. Miller needs to stay and continue to develop.

 

[NYRangerFan*]

Mike Richards anybody?

 

[True Blue]

going for what Pominville went for which was a first, a second, a b prospect and a crappy goalie, but thats only if the bidding gets really heavy.

The Rangers do not have a 1st round pick to give up. And if they did, they still should not discard it again. Trading a 1st & second is very steep.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

If we're going to trade Miller, if we can't get anyone who isn't a free agent at the end of this season, I'd rather we trade his rights in the offseason, hopefully for someone who is signed for a significant period of time. I feel Miller is incredibly overrated, but I think it makes absolutely no sense to trade him for someone who'll just walk at the end of the season. For someone who's a RFA, we could at least get a pick or picks from trading him, even if it's at the end of the season. It's always a tough decision whether you want to give up potentially a large portion of your future for a single shot at the Cup. I think it was a terrible trade for MSL last year by giving up 2 picks, so I think it would be terrible to do a similar "risk the future for a shot at the Cup" trade this year.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Brooks speculates that Miller would be wanted as the core of a package for Vermette.

If that happens there will be a long string of explitives coming from my keyboard. Insane to give him up for a pure rental.

Agreed. We really don't have the pieces for Vermette without giving up a guy with high upside like Miller?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Mike Richards anybody?

If his contract was less years, I wouldn't mind with LA eating 50% of the cap. But that contract is running for another 5 years. Ridiculous!

 

[RangerBoy]

Who said the Rangers are trading Miller for a rental? If you are Arizona, you want Miller in the deal. If the shoe was on the other foot, the Rangers would demand Miller too. Brooks wrote cap space will be at a premium next season. That's an understatement. The Rangers will need JT to be a major contributor next season. Stepan is averaging a point per game. It's not unrealstic to imagine Derek continuing on that pace. Gorton will be begging Stepan and his agent Matt Oates to take $6 million. The Rangers currently have $52,375,000 committed in just 13 players. Say the Rangers dump Glass and add $6 million for Stepan, $56,925,000 in 13 players. $71M cap. Leave $1 million to operate the team. $14,075,000 in total. $13,075,000 for the rest of the team. I know Marty is playing for the NHL minimum next season.