2014 - 2015 Coyotes Roster Part 7

[Jakey53]

McDavid is the real deal. Crosby is the best comparison out there. He is a superstar franchise player with potential to be one of the greatest players of all time. There is a reason teams like AZ are not going out of their way to improve this season.

With all the pain and suffering we as Coyote fan have endured, wouldn't it be something if we got McDavid. No other GM out there has worked so hard with so little as DM. I could just see DM step up to the podium to announce that we picked McDavid. His eyes would be as big as horse turds.

 

[0point1]

McDavid's dad isn't a former NHL player, not worth the risk.

 

[_Del_]

For me, it comes down to this. We are not a good hockey team right now. That's it. Bottom line. The last 80 games or so have been hot garbage with a bunch of loser points masking how bad we've been.
You can sell hope with young kids, but you can't sell hope in Chipchura and Moss becoming something they aren't. No one believes it, and no one wants to see it.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

No one believes it, and no one wants to see it.

THIS!!!! No one wants to see Moss/Chips/Klink

I could live with the losses, if I get to watch the kids grow

 

[IPreferPi]

McDavid's dad isn't a former NHL player, not worth the risk.

Maloney can always indulge in his bloodlines fetish in rounds 2-7. Or maybe even in Round 1 again if he's savvy enough to deal Vermette to a Cup contender for a late 1st.

Lack of bloodlines is not an excuse to draft McEichel, haha.

 

[Mosby]

I feel like the people arguing against the tank really don't understand just how much better McDavid is than literally every first overall pick since Crosby. This isn't just your typical draft year. I would not be advocating we lose on purpose if the end result was a shot at RNH or Yakupov. This is the next face of the NHL. Go check their stats and resumes then come tell me I'm not a Coyotes fan for wanting that guy on our team.

Sheesh.

Agreed. Here's your argument, in graphic form:

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Fail for Nail. Yes, McDavid is a generational player, but there is no guarantee that we would lose the tank war as there are teams with worse talent than ours. So, what would happen if we ended up #6 or #8? Would the quality of player be that much higher than # 10-14 that it was worth the loss of fans through the season?

 

[IPreferPi]

Fail for Nail. Yes, McDavid is a generational player, but there is no guarantee that we would lose the tank war as there are teams with worse talent than ours. So, what would happen if we ended up #6 or #8? Would the quality of player be that much higher than # 10-14 that it was worth the loss of fans through the season?

Yes. And honestly, there are not that many teams that have forwards groups worse than ours as currently constructed. Combined w/ a defense that has been feast or famine for the past 120+ games and an inconsistent goalie, and I can see us very well finishing bottom 5 this season.

 

[Thor Savage]

A glimmer of hope . . . .

http://arizonasports.com/43/1780941...aloney-wants-to-infuse-more-youth-into-lineup

Maloney acknowledges the error of starting with too many veterans and they are making changes. This is what we all wanted (minus Domi & Samuelsson) and I am hoping it continues to work, especially against the next three opponents who will be a good test. It's fun seeing the energy the rookies bring and the excitement that the vets have when the rookies succeed. I was at the Panthers game when Hodgman scored and it was so awesome to see how happy he was and how happy his teammates were for him.

When Lessio is ready I'd like to see him slotted with Hanzal or Gagner and then the line-up looks allot better:

Reider - Vermette - Doan
Lessio - Hanzal - Erat
Korpikoski - Gagner - Boedker
McMillan - Vitale - Moss/Crombeen/Chipchura/Klinkhammer (a couple of them need to go, I don't care which ones, though Moss on the PK and the fact that Chipchura plays center and wing are probably the 2 most valuable)

OEL - Michalek
Yandle - Murphy
Gormley - Stone

Summers/Schlemko (one needs to go, I'd prefer to keep Summers)

 

[_Del_]

Fail for Nail. Yes, McDavid is a generational player, but there is no guarantee that we would lose the tank war as there are teams with worse talent than ours. So, what would happen if we ended up #6 or #8? Would the quality of player be that much higher than # 10-14 that it was worth the loss of fans through the season?

Yes. Depending on how the defensemen fall, there should be guys like Barzal still available who will be long gone by 10, imo.

I'm not agreeing with the "trade Yandle and Hanzal while we're at it" "burn it to the ground" sentiment. But retaining core guys and dumping UFA's is a no-brainer with this club. We're not a good hockey team with Moss, Klink AND Chipchura all in the top9 when healthy. It doesn't work. We know it doesn't work. Retool. Get rid of the guys you can't keep or don't work, and try something different with our kids. That just makes sense regardless of where our draft pick winds up.

 

[lanky]

Barzal at 6 vs Kyle Connor at 12 is an awful reason to show acceptance of a losing culture in your organization.

 

[rt]

http://arizonasports.com/43/1780941...aloney-wants-to-infuse-more-youth-into-lineup

"I think if we erred in anything, it was maybe going into the season with a little bit more of a veteran lineup. That hasn't worked for us, so now we're changing gears a little bit and starting to bring more energy into our group."
The Coyotes, with that veteran-laden lineup, limped out to a 3-6-1 start. With Rieder and Gormley making key contributions in the last two games, the 'Yotes are have won two straight heading into Friday night's road game at Anaheim.
Maloney feels Rieder could be with the big club for a while.
"Rieder had an excellent year last year and he's ready for a real chance to play," he said. "To (Coach Tippett's) credit, he's putting him with good players and given him the chance to show what he can do.
…

Gormley is another player who will get thrown into the fire of NHL hockey.
"We're going to keep Brandon with us, we're going to play him, we're going to find out what we have with Brandon," Maloney said. "I think he's ready to step into the league and play in the league."

This is very, very interesting to say the least. Why the dramatic about face on Gormley? Quite the 180. What changed?

Also, why was the veteran group a mistake? He says the difference with the youth will be energy. Does that mean the vets haven't been energetic?

 

[Dirty Old Man]

First off, you see my join date under my name, yes?

Means zip, but you weren't necessarily the one I was questioning to begin with. Although, tbh, I do associate you with general negativity.

And, as a Coyote fan, you roughly understand the decade that followed, right? Do I look like someone that's "only going to be here if we're good"? Are you somehow unaware that we have posters here that have been cheering for the team going all the way back to when they were still the Jets?

Don't ever question the fanhood of someone that bothers to register on a message board to talk hockey with fellow fans. It makes you look incredibly insecure.

. to you, perhaps.

No one cares about your definition of fanhood or cares to hear what you think of others. And, at last check, this franchise can't afford to be picky about who chooses to give a **** about the Coyotes.

It would be embarrassing to lose every game. But it just might be the best thing that has ever happened to this crappy organization and ultimately secure the future of the team in the valley. I can relate to wanting that. I'm sure you can too, on some level, even if you don't agree with the means.

...and having been through those times, why *anyone* would want their fellow fans, particularly the all-too-few of us who actually go to Glendale to watch in person, to go through that again, on purpose, on the flimsy promise of possibly/maybe/fingers-crossed long-term gain is beyond me.

Look, fire the GM and the coach, fine. Try the younger forwards who show promise, fine. But to adopt an overall strategy of racing to the bottom for a few percentage points in a lottery is just a loser strategy, no other way to put it. Sorry for those who disagree with that assessment.

I feel like the people arguing against the tank really don't understand just how much better McDavid is than literally every first overall pick since Crosby.

And I feel like the people arguing for it really don't understand what "20%, at best" means. (2nd choice guarantee be damned)

 

[BAdvocate]

You can sell hope with young kids, but you can't sell hope in Chipchura and Moss becoming something they aren't. No one believes it, and no one wants to see it.

You are absolutely correct you can't sell that, however that's not what they are selling. They are selling defensive awareness, intangibles, and the red wing model of player development.

Some of us are on board with that, some are not. I am, yet that doesn't mean I and others don't share some of your frustration with not seeing some of the youth on the Coyotes.

A lot of frustration stems from the fact the 'driftwood' plays all or sometime on the 3rd line. This is understandable, if you ignore the fact the team really consists of a 2nd line, 3rd line, and two fourth lines.

Fail for Nail. Yes, McDavid is a generational player, but there is no guarantee that we would lose the tank war as there are teams with worse talent than ours. So, what would happen if we ended up #6 or #8? Would the quality of player be that much higher than # 10-14 that it was worth the loss of fans through the season?

You're asking a question no one knows the answer to. We'll see valid opinions such as the one below, and mine which differs from IPrefer3.14159.....but no one really knows or gets to make that decision except the owners.

Yes. And honestly, there are not that many teams that have forwards groups worse than ours as currently constructed. Combined w/ a defense that has been feast or famine for the past 120+ games and an inconsistent goalie, and I can see us very well finishing bottom 5 this season.

and fans of about 14 other teams have the same opinion of their team, with worse coaches and gm's. And let's not kid ourselves, all of our opinions are flawed at some level....I certainly know mine are.

 

[rt]

Barzal at 6 vs Kyle Connor at 12 is an awful reason to show acceptance of a losing culture in your organization.

Tanking is a goofy term we use for fun. What we really mean is rebuild.

Why hang onto Vermette and Michalek? Why not grab futures for them?

 

[Thor Savage]

This is very, very interesting to say the least. Why the dramatic about face on Gormley? Quite the 180. What changed?

Also, why was the veteran group a mistake? He says the difference with the youth will be energy. Does that mean the vets haven't been energetic?

I'd it was a mistake because they were getting their butts handed to them on a nightly basis.

The difference in speed with the young guys is so noticeable. Especially Reider, his speed draws penalties. Heck, even Klinkhammer looks a little faster and has drawn some penalties. Maybe he's motivated to keep his spot in the lineup. I still want him gone though. Big guys who don't play big drive me nuts.

I'd like to see him traded for any of the following:

Eric Gryba - OTTOWA
Brett Bellemore - CAROLINA (I thnk he makes the most sense, similar contracts, both expiring)
Dalton Prout - COLUMBUS

Not sure on the equity of the trades, but I don't see a reason to keep Klink if we bring up Lessio.

 

[IPreferPi]

and fans of about 14 other teams have the same opinion of their team, with worse coaches and gm's. And let's not kid ourselves, all of our opinions are flawed at some level....I certainly know mine are.

True enough.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

What I believe is that they've tried it the 'cheap' way - hey, great if it works - for one of their patented 10-game evaluation periods. They went 3-6-1 and it was obvious it wasn't working.

Ergo, callups. See what happens in games 11-20. Gotta admit the energy in the first two have been encouraging.

 

[Grimes]

What I believe is that they've tried it the 'cheap' way - hey, great if it works - for one of their patented 10-game evaluation periods. They went 3-6-1 and it was obvious it wasn't working.

Ergo, callups. See what happens in games 11-20. Gotta admit the energy in the first two have been encouraging.

Yep, this is how it will play out. I believe these next ten games will determine how management will view the season.

 

[_Del_]

You are absolutely correct you can't sell that, however that's not what they are selling. They are selling defensive awareness, intangibles, and the red wing model of player development.

Our defensive awareness and intangibles have meant squat over the last 80 games in terms of results. It is not working.
Meanwhile in Detroit the head coach is giving the kids some slack and letting them play. There are plenty of players under 24 playing on the Red Wings. Babcock admits there will be growing pains with young players. Tippett sees those as "not ready" or undercooked, or whatever the mantra is of the day. "The Red Wing Model of player development" is being abused by the people trying to sell this organizations treatment of young players.

 

[The Grocery Stick]

Yes. Depending on how the defensemen fall, there should be guys like Barzal still available who will be long gone by 10, imo.

I'm not agreeing with the "trade Yandle and Hanzal while we're at it" "burn it to the ground" sentiment. But retaining core guys and dumping UFA's is a no-brainer with this club. We're not a good hockey team with Moss, Klink AND Chipchura all in the top9 when healthy. It doesn't work. We know it doesn't work. Retool. Get rid of the guys you can't keep or don't work, and try something different with our kids. That just makes sense regardless of where our draft pick winds up.

I share this wholeheartedly. Yandle and Hanzal are keepers. I was maybe open to moving Yandle when he was such a turnover machine but his play this year has been top shelf and he's obviously gone to work on some of his previous weaknesses. I think he's one you build around (potential captain), not move.

As for Hanzal where would we find a center with his size, top of the league in faceoffs etc. for $3.1 for the next three years? Moving either of these pieces just creates holes that are not easy/impossible to fill.

This team needs four things in my view. Upgrade of the driftwood, one or two crease clearing defensemen, time for the youngsters to find their game and Vrbata/similar forward. I know that's not a simple challenge as that's about 6-7 upgrades and hard to do without moving some high-value assets but I think it can be done without disrupting the core.

 

[BAdvocate]

This is very, very interesting to say the least. Why the dramatic about face on Gormley? Quite the 180. What changed?

Also, why was the veteran group a mistake? He says the difference with the youth will be energy. Does that mean the vets haven't been energetic?

The difference is probably Gormley is healthy now.

Don't be difficult and task GGMDM with semantics....you know he's referring to 'youthful' energy

 

[_Del_]

"Rieder had an excellent year last year and he's ready for a real chance to play," he said. "To (Coach Tippett's) credit, he's putting him with good players and given him the chance to show what he can do.
...
"We're going to keep Brandon with us, we're going to play him, we're going to find out what we have with Brandon," Maloney said. "I think he's ready to step into the league and play in the league."

One could almost read that to say Maloney has mandated those guys play and get an honest evaluation regardless of Tippett's current opinion of them. Maybe Tippett ran out of rope, and GMDM is finally calling the shots on the roster.

 

[ibroce]

This is very, very interesting to say the least. Why the dramatic about face on Gormley? Quite the 180. What changed?

Also, why was the veteran group a mistake? He says the difference with the youth will be energy. Does that mean the vets haven't been energetic?

Because they lied about sending Gormley down initially. It was 100 percent about money and keeping his 1 ways in the nhl. They knew going in that he is better than Schlemko and Summers.

Same reason for vets. They thought they could get away with being cheap and we've gotten steamrolled.

 

[ibroce]

I share this wholeheartedly. Yandle and Hanzal are keepers. I was maybe open to moving Yandle when he was such a turnover machine but his play this year has been top shelf and he's obviously gone to work on some of his previous weaknesses. I think he's one you build around (potential captain), not move.

As for Hanzal where would we find a center with his size, top of the league in faceoffs etc. for $3.1 for the next three years? Moving either of these pieces just creates holes that are not easy/impossible to fill.

This team needs four things in my view. Upgrade of the driftwood, one or two crease clearing defensemen, time for the youngsters to find their game and Vrbata/similar forward. I know that's not a simple challenge as that's about 6-7 upgrades and hard to do without moving some high-value assets but I think it can be done without disrupting the core.

Calling up Lessio to play with Hanzal and Erat solves about 10 problems.