2014 - 2015 Coyotes Roster Part 7

[rt]

Absolutely. Keep him, move others to make room if you need to. The thing about McDavid is that if he's worth 9 million a year, he's going to move a ton of merchandise, tickets, attract sponsors, and get the Coyotes on national TV a lot more. That's why superstars are important, and lucrative.

If he lives up to his billing I'd give him whatever it takes on an 8 year deal without even thinking twice. Not only is he talented, but he's a really good kid that has openly talked **** about kids who pick and choose where they go in the Canadian league. He reported to a pretty bad Erie team and helped them turn it around. If there's one player in drafts past or present you want carrying the Coyote flag up the mountain, it's McDavid. Polar opposite of Kyle Turris.

I'm with you. We only disagree on Yandle and Hanzal. I'd keep them. But I'm definitely on board with the "fire everyone" and trade everyone (28 years old, or older) strategy.

 

[Desert Ice 11]

No honor for Connor ... It would be awesome to have him...This team needs to lose more. Lose to win

 

[Desert Ice 11]

I asked McEichel site to update their McEichel factor for a Coyote Tank..and I received

Arizona Coyotes - McEichel Factor

The Phoenix errr… Arizona Coyotes continue to be a question mark on offense and are hoping the name change will help spark a culture change. With no identity, they rely heavily on two studs in the making defensively in Oliver Ekman-Larsson and Keith Yandle.

What's the best thing to aid a lackluster offense? McDavid or Eichel. Either will cement themselves on the top line and give this struggling offense a spark with hopes of a return to the playoffs.

What's the Coyotes formula to tank? Call up Mark Visentin and develop him into a star. Ship off Mike Smith for what you can before he walks in free agency. The Coyotes will also need to go younger to ensure a chance at McDavid/ Eichel. Unfortunately, there aren’t many pieces to ship out at the deadline, so a fire sale wouldn't aid a rebuild. Free agency and McEichel will help steer this rebuild in the right direction.

McEichel Factor: Top 5 Pick

 

[XX]

I'm with you. We only disagree on Yandle and Hanzal. I'd keep them. But I'm definitely on board with the "fire everyone" and trade everyone (28 years old, or older) strategy.

I would only trade those two for a hefty overpayment. If Hanzal misses time this year with another back injury I think it's something to consider.

 

[ck26]

I asked McEichel site to update their McEichel factor for a Coyote Tank..and I received

What year was that written?

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Nobody should be questioning the fanhood of people on here. It's not a productive conversation.

We're all Yotes fans here. Regardless on disagreements on the current state of affairs and which direction we should be heading in for the future.

spare me. Any of you, *any* of you who say things like "I want us to lose every game this year" and really mean it are *already* bandwagon fans, imho.

"If we continue to suck like this I'm outta here" does not exactly scream "loyalty" to me...but whatever floats your boat. If you're here only if we're gonna be good, fine, if not, that's fine, too. Cheers, mates.

 

[XX]

If you're here only if we're gonna be good, fine, if not, that's fine, too. Cheers, mates.

First off, you see my join date under my name, yes? And, as a Coyote fan, you roughly understand the decade that followed, right? Do I look like someone that's "only going to be here if we're good"? Are you somehow unaware that we have posters here that have been cheering for the team going all the way back to when they were still the Jets?

Don't ever question the fanhood of someone that bothers to register on a message board to talk hockey with fellow fans. It makes you look incredibly insecure. No one cares about your definition of fanhood or cares to hear what you think of others. And, at last check, this franchise can't afford to be picky about who chooses to give a **** about the Coyotes.

It would be embarrassing to lose every game. But it just might be the best thing that has ever happened to this crappy organization and ultimately secure the future of the team in the valley. I can relate to wanting that. I'm sure you can too, on some level, even if you don't agree with the means.

 

[Mosby]

Hard to interpret that Friedman quote.

Makes me think that Z will be on the move at some point. Why say you're interested in re-signing Vermette but not make a similar comment about Z?

As for our current situation, I think we're pretty much stuck in neutral until Barroway arrives. I'll watch the games and cheer for wins, but I know 4 of our 5 wins this year have come against teams who are currently on the outside of the playoff picture. We have 3 regulation wins in 12 games. In games vs. teams currently in a playoff spot, we've been outscored 25 to 12.

Maloney's philosophy to be competitive year after year is admirable, but it's difficult to follow when our record is 23-29-11 come March. We'll see what happens.

 

[Jamieh]

There is at least one and possibly 2 players in these top 5's every year that would make busting for the Coyotes a very bad play. We would turn fans away with constant losing and the reward would be a player who will barely play on our 1st line in 3 or 4 years. Or a 2nd pairing D man in same 3 or 4 years.

To attempt to illustrate this point, top 5 draft picks from 2006-2010

2006:

E. Johnson
J. Staal
J Toews
N. Backstrom
P. Kessel

2007:
P. Kane
J. Van Reimsdyk
K. Turris
T. Hickey
K. Alzner

2008:

S. Stamkos
D. Doughty
Z. Bogosian
A. Pietrangelo
L. Schenn

2009:

J. Tavares
V. Hedman
M. Duchene
E. Kane
B. Schenn

2010:

T. Hall
T. Seguin
E. Gudbrandson
R. Johansen
N. Niedereitter

Pretty much everyone on this list is an NHL regular, and almost all of the forwards have been impact players. You have to pretty much go back to Nikolay Zherdev in 2003 to find a top 5 drafted forward who didn't last long in the league, but there was the KHL factor with him and even then he did have a 60 point season for the Blue Jackets.

 

[XX]

We would turn fans away with constant losing

... what do you call the years prior to Tippett and the last two, including this year?

 

[Jamieh]

I would call it trying to compete. What I read here is people wanting Coyotes to finish in bottom 3 of league on purpose. This team can't afford to take that chance in this City when the reward could be a Schenn brother, or a Nino, or an Eric Johnson, or a Thomas Hickey, you should get my point after these few. If there was no lottery and you were guaranteed one of the top 2 I might see it differently. Looking back if it means Tavares or Toews then by all means short term pain for long term but fairly instant gain. But imagine a very bad year this year for casual fans followed by a Yakapov selection. Devastating for the franchise.

... what do you call the years prior to Tippett and the last two, including this year?

 

[XX]

If there was no lottery and you were guaranteed one of the top 2 I might see it differently.

This year is stacked, like 2003, and you are guaranteed (1) Connor McDavid or (1) Jack Eichel if you finish with the worst record in the league. Even with the last two wins, this team is still 6th worst in the league right now. They're tryin, but the team is on pace for a bottom five finish, roughly.

One season of transitional hockey where young players are given plenty of icetime to evaluate what you've got in the system while jettisoning Tippett's favorite crap overboard will not kill this franchise. Just the opposite.

Also Edmonton ruined Yakupov

 

[Jamieh]

Finishing last is not easy with Buffalo and such still around and Yakapov is Yakapov, blaming the OIlers for his poor play is a copout

 

[XX]

Finishing last is not easy with Buffalo and such still around and Yakapov is Yakapov, blaming the OIlers for his poor play is a copout

It's really not if you know that team and Dallas Eakins. The Coyotes don't need to finish last, only in range. Uncle Gary will take care of the rest.

 

[ck26]

The forward group will look radically different next year. Everyone who got a good look this year will probably be in. Domi, Samuelsson, Rieder, Lessio next year and Perlini the following year. That team will be competitve. This year's team will be a bubble team. But it's not worth throwing away pieces that WILL help us next year.

EDIT: As of now, not including UFA's, the turnover to next year's roster will be pretty dramatic.

Rieder-x-Doan
Domi-Hanzal-Samuelsson
Lessio-Gagner-Boedker
Korpikoski-Vitale-McMillan
Chipchura

OEL-Murphy
Yandle-Stone
Gormley-x
Summers

Two obvious holes:Vermette and Michalek, 1-c and 3-rd
Other MAJOR issue: this roster, including Ribeiro buyout, is just over 44 million dollars in cap payroll. about 9 million shy of what the floor will probably be. Boedker will probably get a pay raise, as well as Gormley. Who says we can't afford Eric Staal?! We might NEED his contract.

Unless Carolina are going to give us Eric Staal for free, I'm not interested. What's he going to cost to acquire? If we need to waste money, I'd rather just re-sign Hodgman to a 1 year, $6m contract than give away a bunch of assets for the right to pay Staal that. Let Toronto give Carolina a 1st and a good prospect for Eric Staal.

If he's not open to any Michalek trade he's a fool. If some knucklehead offered him a 3rd rounder and he scoffed, than god bless him. Hard to interpret that Friedman quote.

What's your desired return for Z? A 2nd? I hope he gets that. Given his injury history, the real cash savings and that it would help force Tipp to dress Gormley, I'd accept a 3+ now (i.e.: 2015 3rd + 2016 4th? Or Z + a 4th for a 2015 2nd). Vermette has no injury history and might be the most valuable center available at the deadline, so I'll hold out for a 1st. Z won't get that.

Makes me think that Z will be on the move at some point. Why say you're interested in re-signing Vermette but not make a similar comment about Z?

As for our current situation, I think we're pretty much stuck in neutral until Barroway arrives. I'll watch the games and cheer for wins, but I know 4 of our 5 wins this year have come against teams who are currently on the outside of the playoff picture. We have 3 regulation wins in 12 games. In games vs. teams currently in a playoff spot, we've been outscored 25 to 12.

Maloney's philosophy to be competitive year after year is admirable, but it's difficult to follow when our record is 23-29-11 come March. We'll see what happens.

Injuries and skating speed. Vermette's such a good skater, he'll age like fine wine. Slow, stay-at-home defensemen turn to vinegar. Skilled, fast, two-way centers are hard to find. Slow, physical defensemen are a dime a dozen.

 

[Etch]

I feel like the people arguing against the tank really don't understand just how much better McDavid is than literally every first overall pick since Crosby. This isn't just your typical draft year. I would not be advocating we lose on purpose if the end result was a shot at RNH or Yakupov. This is the next face of the NHL. Go check their stats and resumes then come tell me I'm not a Coyotes fan for wanting that guy on our team.

Sheesh.

 

[hbk]

I feel like the people arguing against the tank really don't understand just how much better McDavid is than literally every first overall pick since Crosby. This isn't just your typical draft year. I would not be advocating we lose on purpose if the end result was a shot at RNH or Yakupov. This is the next face of the NHL. Go check their stats and resumes then come tell me I'm not a Coyotes fan for wanting that guy on our team.

Sheesh.

McDavid is the real deal. Crosby is the best comparison out there. He is a superstar franchise player with potential to be one of the greatest players of all time. There is a reason teams like AZ are not going out of their way to improve this season.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

agree

McDavid is on pace to surpass 180pts and Eichel is on pace to surpass 80pts

That puts these guys in relative level of Crosby and Kariya

Pretty good players, we're not talking about 50-70pt players, we're talking 100+pt players, which this franchise has never had

 

[RemoAZ]

You know, people keep talking about how it would hurt attendance if we shipped off a bunch of vets now and did a real rebuild. Win or lose, it would be more fun to watch a few of our high pick forwards hustling up and down the ice than some of the slugs we have now.

 

[Jamieh]

I know the Oilers quite well and Eakins as well. He went from being a great teacher of the complete game in Toronto's minor league team to the guy who ruins stars in the NHL in just one season. Yakapov is an average one dimensional player who the coach is trying to turn into more. To blame the team when it isn't successful is just wrong

It's really not if you know that team and Dallas Eakins. The Coyotes don't need to finish last, only in range. Uncle Gary will take care of the rest.

 

[Jakey53]

Absolutely. Keep him, move others to make room if you need to. The thing about McDavid is that if he's worth 9 million a year, he's going to move a ton of merchandise, tickets, attract sponsors, and get the Coyotes on national TV a lot more. That's why superstars are important, and lucrative.

If he lives up to his billing I'd give him whatever it takes on an 8 year deal without even thinking twice. Not only is he talented, but he's a really good kid that has openly talked **** about kids who pick and choose where they go in the Canadian league. He reported to a pretty bad Erie team and helped them turn it around. If there's one player in drafts past or present you want carrying the Coyote flag up the mountain, it's McDavid. Polar opposite of Kyle Turris.

Exactly!

 

[Jamieh]

I doubt that would be enough to finish last and get a true superstar. That is my argument. Have you watched Buffalo this year? If the Coyotes gave that effort every night there will be a dozen of us at October games next year. We don't have the luxury of finishing last.

You know, people keep talking about how it would hurt attendance if we shipped off a bunch of vets now and did a real rebuild. Win or lose, it would be more fun to watch a few of our high pick forwards hustling up and down the ice than some of the slugs we have now.

 

[Jakey53]

I would agree, except that if you start with Maloney taking over, we have actually drafted pretty well. All the teams you listed are teams that dominated drafts from 2004-2009. We are just hitting our stage of having an entire group of seasoned prospects. Maloney realizes the importance of developing prospects correctly after Turris and Wheeler. And the entire 2008-2009 team.

2007
Turris. Great player. Poorly managed by Gretzky.

2008
Mikkel Boedker. Currently top 6 player for us. Also experienced TGO trauma, survived, recovering.
Michael Stone. Top 4 Defeseman.

2009
OEL. Franchise defenseman.
Chris Brown. Fringe NHLer at the moment, turned into Erat.

2010
Gormley. Still could be a top pairing D.
Visentin. Disappointing development, but still time to grow.
Probably Maloney's worst first round.

2011
Connor Murphy. Will be a top 4 Dman on this team for a long time. Playing above age 21.
Lucas Lessio. Will be a middle 6 player for us next year.

2012
Henrik Samuelsson. Will probably crack the roster at some point this year, definitely next year.
Marek Langhammer in the 6th round is a steal with how well he is progressing.

2013
Max Domi. Top 6 LW next year, potential to be a perennial 70+point player.
Laurant Dauphin. Future 3c who had a pro shot when he was drafted.
Yan-Pavel Laplante. Has the makings of being Vitale's replacement in 3-4 years. Great defensive center. And grows a sweet mustache.
Brendan Burke. Aother soild goaltender prospect taken in the 6th round. He, like Langhammer, has developed much better than anyone thought when he was taken.

2014
Brendan Perlini. We all saw it in camp. He is going to be an absolute stud. Steal at 12.
Ryan MacInnis, Edgars Kulda, Christian Dvorak and Anton Karlsson could all be NHLers in a bottom 6 capacity.



A big thing I noticed is that 4 years in a row ('08-'11) we drafted a defenseman who is currently on our roster. And after Murphy the focus has been HEAVILY on forwards. We screwed the pooch big time in the early to mid 2000's, but there is nothing that can be done about that, except to draft and develop well going forward. And we are VERY close to seeing the fruits of that. We ALREADY have the prospect pool of forwards to be a playoff team even as soon as next year.

A mini re-tooling is all that is necessary. Move some parts to bring in longer term or more effective players, but tanking is bad news.Creates a toxic, losing atmosphere for young players, loses fans, etc. Retool. Not rebuild.

Coyotes rush prospects into the NHL: "You're ruining their growth! They won't develop! Down with Gretzky!"
Coyotes keep prospects in the minors: "You're running them out of town! Tippett hates young players! david ****ING MOSS!!1"

I have been reading your posts and I agree with what you are saying. Your a breath of fresh air.

 

[IPreferPi]

I doubt that would be enough to finish last and get a true superstar. That is my argument. Have you watched Buffalo this year? If the Coyotes gave that effort every night there will be a dozen of us at October games next year. We don't have the luxury of finishing last.

Again, we don't necessarily need to finish last to win the lottery. Just be in range (bottom 4-5) and the nature of probability/the invisible hand of Uncle Gary will take care of the rest.

 

[Jakey53]

You know, people keep talking about how it would hurt attendance if we shipped off a bunch of vets now and did a real rebuild. Win or lose, it would be more fun to watch a few of our high pick forwards hustling up and down the ice than some of the slugs we have now.

I agree, and I think our attendance would improve.