2014-2015 CHL/NCAA/Euro Prospects thread 6.0

[Tim Wallach]

Bailey was a ND for me last year so I'm not that dissapointed. But still surprised in the context of a WJC.

Ditto for me. I'm not surprised due to red flags about Bailey. But surprised in the context of the WJC. He's more of a game-breaker at this moment than McInnis by a fair bit.

 

[S Bah]

Ditto for me. I'm not surprised due to red flags about Bailey. But surprised in the context of the WJC. He's more of a game-breaker at this moment than McInnis by a fair bit.

MacInnis is certainly valued higher by the USNTDP obviously for a reason even though he went to the OHL, probably due to last years performance or lack of IMHO.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Hard to believe people still criticize Timmins for the Chipchura pick. He has ended up becoming one of the top 15 players from the first round of the 2004 draft despite being selected 18th overall, and despite never being the same player after his freak Achilles tendon injury. 14th in points among first rounders, 16th in games played, and will end his career being top 15 in games played, perhaps top 12.

People started panning the pick in about 2006..and still do despite the evidence to the contrary. Never let the facts get in the way of a good whine. Some folks don't look at the quality of the draft or where the team picks...all first round forwards that don't become top six players are busts even though simple math dictates that it's an impossibility.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Hard to believe people still criticize Timmins for the Chipchura pick. He has ended up becoming one of the top 15 players from the first round of the 2004 draft despite being selected 18th overall, and despite never being the same player after his freak Achilles tendon injury. 14th in points among first rounders, 16th in games played, and will end his career being top 15 in games played, perhaps top 12.

People started panning the pick in about 2006..and still do despite the evidence to the contrary. Never let the facts get in the way of a good whine. Some folks don't look at the quality of the draft or where the team picks...all first round forwards that don't become top six players are busts even though simple math dictates that it's an impossibility.

Come to the NHL draft thread.. we are dying for some information on what to expect as far as speculation on Timmins interest where we are picking at 26th.

 

[Whitesnake]

Hard to believe people still criticize Timmins for the Chipchura pick. He has ended up becoming one of the top 15 players from the first round of the 2004 draft despite being selected 18th overall, and despite never being the same player after his freak Achilles tendon injury. 14th in points among first rounders, 16th in games played, and will end his career being top 15 in games played, perhaps top 12.

People started panning the pick in about 2006..and still do despite the evidence to the contrary. Never let the facts get in the way of a good whine. Some folks don't look at the quality of the draft or where the team picks...all first round forwards that don't become top six players are busts even though simple math dictates that it's an impossibility.

I think it's more related to the fact that you should be concentrating in getting a high-top offensive talent in the 1st round as it's surely easier to pick a bottom 6 player in other rounds and less easy to pick a potential "star" offensive player. We all know that directly at the draft, Chipchura was already pencilled as maybe the next Kris Draper, a very good shutdown 3rd liner and future captain. Didn't have an incredible inclination of becoming an offensive player in higher leagues even compared to most CHL'ers picked after him. Though true....some didn't even make it in the NHL, and obviously not making the career he's having. But you know how that works. Often, you will see players who will take full charge of a 2nd chance in having a career. Chipchura is not the first one in struggling at first and then, breath of fresh air and get his things going again. Add the fact that he needed a 3rd team and it was tough to predetermine the kind of path he'd be taking.

Yes...you need those types of players in your team. But maybe not picked in the 1st round. Mind you, I know...2004 wasn't exactly brillant. And unfortunately, add the end-result that he wasn't able to shine with us hence the criticisms. Deserved it or not, based on the injury, or lack of patient of our management, things like that happens. Timmins gets his faire share of praise lately. I have him as the Habs MVP.

 

[Fozz]

I think it's more related to the fact that you should be concentrating in getting a high-top offensive talent in the 1st round as it's surely easier to pick a bottom 6 player in other rounds and less easy to pick a potential "star" offensive player.

Why should that be? An excellent 3rd line, shut down type players is as valuable to a team as a decent 2nd liner. The roles are different but I'd take a Kris Draper/Mike Peca/Guy Carbonneau/Mike Fisher type well before a lot of 2nd liners.

I'm not saying that Chipchura is at that level by any means but not picking that potential in the first round because you have to go with offensive talent isn't logical.

 

[overlords]

Why should that be? An excellent 3rd line, shut down type players is as valuable to a team as a decent 2nd liner. The roles are different but I'd take a Kris Draper/Mike Peca/Guy Carbonneau/Mike Fisher type well before a lot of 2nd liners.

I'm not saying that Chipchura is at that level by any means but not picking that potential in the first round because you have to go with offensive talent isn't logical.

It is when the more offensive players are harder to find and cost more to trade for/sign. In terms of value in this league, offense >> defense with regards to forwards.

Not saying that's how it should be, but that's how it is.

 

[Fozz]

It is when the more offensive players are harder to find and cost more to trade for/sign. In terms of value in this league, offense >> defense with regards to forwards.

Not saying that's how it should be, but that's how it is.

You'd think that GMs would be more worried about winning then how much value their players have on the market.

 

[overlords]

You'd think that GMs would be more worried about winning then how much value their players have on the market.

Much easier to win when you can trade one of those offensive dudes for 2 of those higher end defensive guys

 

[Fozz]

Much easier to win when you can trade one of those offensive dudes for 2 of those higher end defensive guys

On NHL 2014 maybe...

 

[overlords]

On NHL 2014 maybe...

Yes, because players with high offensive output aren't worth more than strictly defensively capable players in the NHL. You don't think offense only exploitation players like Briere don't get more money/in a trade than an equally competent defensive forward?


Do you have anything of actual value to offer in this conversation?

 

[Whitesnake]

Why should that be? An excellent 3rd line, shut down type players is as valuable to a team as a decent 2nd liner. The roles are different but I'd take a Kris Draper/Mike Peca/Guy Carbonneau/Mike Fisher type well before a lot of 2nd liners.

I'm not saying that Chipchura is at that level by any means but not picking that potential in the first round because you have to go with offensive talent isn't logical.

Like I said, I'm not saying that the end-result isn't important. I'm saying that in the context of the draft, you should always focus on the special talent that could be and history shows that key players (except goalies) are picked in the first round.

Also, when you think that a player's ceiling in that 1st round is only a 3rd line centerman, chances are he'd be less than that. Contrary to players that you might think his ceiling might be higher, if he doesn't reach it, chances are he'd still be a valuable NHL'er.

I'd also welcome those players any day of the week, but all those guys you named weren't picked in the 1st round. Which means that as important as they are, you still could get them later than the 1st. But getting the Datsyuk and the Zetterberg isn't as common.

 

[PricerStopDaPuck]

Lehkonen probably does have the best chance to be a top six guy but i think Andrighetto and Hudon could suprise people. Everytime I've seen Hudon he has impressed me with his hockey iq and skill.

 

[Whitesnake]

Lehkonen probably does have the best chance to be a top six guy but i think Andrighetto and Hudon could suprise people. Everytime I've seen Hudon he has impressed me with his hockey iq and skill.

If Hudon becomes top 6, nobody else will pull out that thread where I say there's no chance it happens. 'Cause I will pull out the thread myself. And we will have a whole "Bash the Whitesnake day".

 

[PricerStopDaPuck]

If Hudon becomes top 6, nobody else will pull out that thread where I say there's no chance it happens. 'Cause I will pull out the thread myself. And we will have a whole "Bash the Whitesnake day".

Okay deal haha. I didn't say it was likely but he has a good enough mind to be one, he has to work on his physical tools obviously(speed, strength,balance,etc) but if he can do that he has an outside shot to be a borderline 2nd liner but it's still a long shot.

 

[WeThreeKings]

As a huge fan of Lehkonen... Andrighetto is the closest to being a top 6 NHLer in our prospect pool as he has already begun to produce in the AHL level.. Hopefully both of them make it though as both of them have a scoring touch and we can always use people with A level shots.

 

[groovejuice]

As a huge fan of Lehkonen... Andrighetto is the closest to being a top 6 NHLer in our prospect pool as he has already begun to produce in the AHL level.. Hopefully both of them make it though as both of them have a scoring touch and we can always use people with A level shots.

It's hard to predict, but we've had very high graduation levels from our young players.

2012, we got the Gally's, last year we graduated Bournival, this year I feel well get at least one D, from the obvious 4, and perhaps one forward also. Less likely, but still possible.

The Dogs haven't been great, But we've stripped them of top players every year.

2 graduates allow us to make a trade or 2 to improve at other positions.

 

[Mathletic]

Grégoire invited to the U20 for Canada.

http://stats.hockeycanada.ca/roster/show/1254000?subseason=165586

along with Fucale

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

http://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/news/Players-invited-to-2014-U20-development-camp

Gregoire is getting an invite to team canada's summer camp. Does not mean he'll be on the team come christmas time but still he could surprise people and be there. Nice reward for his nice 2013-14 season.


Edit: Go to hell Mathletic

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Grégoire invited to the U20 for Canada.

http://stats.hockeycanada.ca/roster/show/1254000?subseason=165586

along with Fucale

Love how all four goalies were drafted in the same round of the same draft. How's that for a little competition?

 

[QuebecPride]

http://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/news/Players-invited-to-2014-U20-development-camp

Gregoire is getting an invite to team canada's summer camp. Does not mean he'll be on the team come christmas time but still he could surprise people and be there. Nice reward for his nice 2013-14 season.


Edit: Go to hell Mathletic

It's very early, but I feel Grégoire's chances are rather slim, especially considering the strong 2014 draft OHL crop. Groulx said he'll take the best players, unlike previous years where they took players for specific roles. Good news is that it's a 'Q coach at the helm so he will have a strong 'say on the composition of the team.

 

[PricerStopDaPuck]

http://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/news/Players-invited-to-2014-U20-development-camp

Gregoire is getting an invite to team canada's summer camp. Does not mean he'll be on the team come christmas time but still he could surprise people and be there. Nice reward for his nice 2013-14 season.


Edit: Go to hell Mathletic

I think Bleakley should be there and and by the look of it alot of these kids will be in the NHL next season anyway.

 

[DekeLikeYouMeanIt]

It's very early, but I feel Grégoire's chances are rather slim, especially considering the strong 2014 draft OHL crop. Groulx said he'll take the best players, unlike previous years where they took players for specific roles. Good news is that it's a 'Q coach at the helm so he will have a strong 'say on the composition of the team.

Plenty of penalty killers in that group too. They don't need him tbh. Still he deserves the opportunity for his efforts and it would be awesome experience.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

It definitely won't be an easy task , although the fact that the tournament will be on a nord american sized rink will make it a bit easier . He does play a team canada-type , nord-south game witch might sit well with them.
The way I see it the mere fact that he's there is a great pat in the back for him development wise going forward. I like the constant improvement that he's showing since his Chicoutimi days.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

It's hard to predict, but we've had very high graduation levels from our young players.

2012, we got the Gally's, last year we graduated Bournival, this year I feel well get at least one D, from the obvious 4, and perhaps one forward also. Less likely, but still possible.

The Dogs haven't been great, But we've stripped them of top players every year.

2 graduates allow us to make a trade or 2 to improve at other positions.

thank you! how come no one ever notes this? You'd think we'd have some over the hill team and no prospects the way some go on. like once our prospects graduate they no longer count.