2014-15 Training Camp Discussion PT.2

[The Stig]

Continue from here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=89796575&posted=1#post89796575

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[Ezpz]

Don't tell me what to do!

 

[Andy]

The Stig? but why!?

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

I really can't wait for a young D to actually show he's ahead of the others though. Tinordi is not involved enough physically, I'd like to see Beaulieu skate more, and Pateryn tries to show what he's good at and showed how heavy and accurate his shot can be, but you can see he's playing a more risky game in scrimmages, and it already cost him.

 

[CH25]

Bruins will be dressing their goons for the 23rd

 

[Whitesnake]

Like I said earlier, Moen's experience is keeping him afloat and even though he's declined considerable, he's still reliable enough in his own end when the team needs him. I still don't get why he was placed along side Galchenyuk and Gallagher, he had zero to offer there and it's like it's the regular season with points on the line...this only made him look worse. Honestly, I think had he played with Malholtra and Prust/Weise, he would have looked a little better as he would have been in his element.

With the amount of depth the Habs have though, you're right, his utility to the club is unknown. That being said, if a plethora of injuries ever happen, we'd be happy to see Moen step right in. However, the team can only carry so many players. The Moen situation is a tough one imo, not as black and white as we are making it seem. I think he still has some miles left in him and come PO time, you want that type of depth.

I personnally believe that when comes trade deadline, you pick up a cheaper Moen. We picked up a cheaper Moen with Weise at one point. You can do it too later. Geez wouldn't be surprised if Bergevin doesn't offer him to the Sabres for a mid-pick....

Just that right now....playing Moen is a disservice to the DD line. Would not be better than any of the 4th line players. And would also be a disservice to Pleks, who we want more offense with or a Eller who doesn't need Moen inability for offense....on the contrary. The bigger criticism for Eller is surely sometimes his lack of vision and creativity. Putting Moen on that line would annihilate any shot of offense on that line...you don't do that to a guy who signed a pretty big contract....it won't cut it if that contract means that he's good with "the little détails". Somebody somewhere believes Eller needs to give an offensive contribution. Surely won't be with Moen. So Moen has a utility...by not playing. Might as well see what you can do wit him and his 1,8M$.

 

[Whitesnake]

HiggsBozon: Jeez man, I love your posts, but you're definitely exagerating on Parenteau. The guy has an average of 62 points every 82 games in his last 3 seasons. He's definitely better offensively than both Galchenyuk and Gallagher at this point, at the time we're speaking. And he's definitely better than Bourque also, playoffs or not.

This guy was traded for Daniel freakin Brière. He is now known as the #2 best winger of the team? It really never ends....Again, when DD got Gallagher, people were bashing as, once again, DD was getting the 2 best wingers of the team. And then when he got Vanek, DD was AGAIN getting the 2 beset wingers of the team. And now...he's also getting the 2 best wingers of the team?

Okay, so the gap isn't big....but somehow, everybody expects Galchenyuk to be better and so would Gallagher. Of course...if Bourque goes back, as scheduled, to his own regular season self, Parenteau is a better winger....but what if he doesn't? I'd take a Bourque Playoffs player than Parenteau. Yet, again, it doesn't make Parenteau a slouch....it makes those 4 wingers good ones....but Parenteau, at this point, is NOT the 2nd best winger of this team.

 

[Analyzer*]

Don't tell me what to do!

Wow, once I finished skimming through the other thread this is exactly what I thought of...

 

[vokiel]

Bruins will be dressing their goons for the 23rd

What goons? Lets get Ogie Ogilthorpe!

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

This guy was traded for Daniel freakin Brière. He is now known as the #2 best winger of the team? It really never ends....Again, when DD got Gallagher, people were bashing as, once again, DD was getting the 2 best wingers of the team. And then when he got Vanek, DD was AGAIN getting the 2 beset wingers of the team. And now...he's also getting the 2 best wingers of the team?

Okay, so the gap isn't big....but somehow, everybody expects Galchenyuk to be better and so would Gallagher. Of course...if Bourque goes back, as scheduled, to his own regular season self, Parenteau is a better winger....but what if he doesn't? I'd take a Bourque Playoffs player than Parenteau. Yet, again, it doesn't make Parenteau a slouch....it makes those 4 wingers good ones....but Parenteau, at this point, is NOT the 2nd best winger of this team.

Playoffs Bourque is a 40 goals power forward with a mean streak and who scores clutch goals. So yeah, definitely, I take him in his good moments before the regular Parenteau. That being said;

Galchenyuk has never sustained a 50 points pace in his career, is still 20 years old, and is subject to HUGE scoring slumps.

Gallagher is a 40 points forward. Do we actually think he's anything more than that? I don't. I think what you see is what you get with him; an undersized workhorse who will work his way to the net to score goals, but who has his limitations and who ultimately isn't the most talented playmaker. He can even lack finish from time to time.

Pacioretty is our best winger, it's painfully obvious.

Bourque is very often a non-factor, but in the playoffs, he's money.

All in all, Parenteau is a gifted playmaker, with great ice vision and very good hands, who scored 20 in 80, 18 in 81, and 18 in 48 in the past. That last season would've been enough for him to be our best goal scorer IIRC.

The fact we got him for Briere is not an argument. It was a fit issue. It's the same argument as Michel Bergeron, who used to say there was probably an issue with Marian Hossa because he was at his 4th team in 3 years back in 2009-2010. In the end, Colorado has O'Reilly, Iginla, Tanguay and Landeskog as top-6 wingers. Of course, Parenteau would have to be used on the bottom-6 in the big, tough western conference. He wasn't a fit there anymore. Plus, Colorado likely wanted to free some cap space in year 2 of the Iginla deal, already spending big money on the big winner.

In the end, I think it's fair to assess that, based on his talent, and based on what he's done in the past few years, coupled with the fact he apparently showed up in the best shape of his career, Parenteau is our 2nd best winger.

Of course, eventual progression from Galchenyuk can change this pretty quickly. But to say on an offensively challenged team, that Parenteau might as well play on the bottom-6 of our team, yeah... That's a huge stretch buddy.

 

[Ezpz]

Playoffs Bourque is a 40 goals power forward with a mean streak and who scores clutch goals. So yeah, definitely, I take him in his good moments before the regular Parenteau. That being said;

Galchenyuk has never sustained a 50 points pace in his career, is still 20 years old, and is subject to HUGE scoring slumps.

Gallagher is a 40 points forward. Do we actually think he's anything more than that? I don't. I think what you see is what you get with him; an undersized workhorse who will work his way to the net to score goals, but who has his limitations and who ultimately isn't the most talented playmaker. He can even lack finish from time to time.

Pacioretty is our best winger, it's painfully obvious.

Bourque is very often a non-factor, but in the playoffs, he's money.

All in all, Parenteau is a gifted playmaker, with great ice vision and very good hands, who scored 20 in 80, 18 in 81, and 18 in 48 in the past. That last season would've been enough for him to be our best goal scorer IIRC.

The fact we got him for Briere is not an argument. It was a fit issue. It's the same argument as Michel Bergeron, who used to say there was probably an issue with Marian Hossa because he was at his 4th team in 3 years back in 2009-2010. In the end, Colorado has O'Reilly, Iginla, Tanguay and Landeskog as top-6 wingers. Of course, Parenteau would have to be used on the bottom-6 in the big, tough western conference. He wasn't a fit there anymore. Plus, Colorado likely wanted to free some cap space in year 2 of the Iginla deal, already spending big money on the big winner.

In the end, I think it's fair to assess that, based on his talent, and based on what he's done in the past few years, coupled with the fact he apparently showed up in the best shape of his career, Parenteau is our 2nd best winger.

Of course, eventual progression from Galchenyuk can change this pretty quickly. But to say on an offensively challenged team, that Parenteau might as well play on the bottom-6 of our team, yeah... That's a huge stretch buddy.

They wouldn't have added an extra pick to give away the significantly better player if there weren't injury or attitude issues with Parenteau.

 

[Analyzer*]

They wouldn't have added an extra pick to give away the significantly better player if there weren't injury or attitude issues with Parenteau.

Parenteau has another year on his contract, Briere doesn't.

Not saying he for sure doesn't have attitude issues, but that's the likely reason.

 

[Habruti!]

Well if you look at it from a roster perspective they are limied to a 23 men roster.

12 forwards, 6 D, 2 Goalies which leaves 3 spots. I very much doubt that they will take the risk of putting Tokarski on waiver which means they might keep 3 goalies or decide not to protect Budaj.

Out of these 3 spots at least one of them must be a Dmen. I would not immagine them starting the season with only 6 Dmen.

Looking at the roster it means:

Price, Tokarski
Suban, Markov, Gilbert, Emelin, Weaver, ??, ??
DD,PACS,PAP,Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Plekanek, Eller, Bourque, Malhorta, Weis, Prust, ??, ??

So this means that Bouillon, Patteryn, Tinordi, Beaulieu are competing for 2 spots
This also means that Moen, Bournival, Sekac, DelaRose, Andreghetto are competing for 2 at most 3 spots.

Because they like Bouillon so much I would bet they go with 8 Dmen. 2 Goalies and 13 forwards. Since I can not see any way they would keep Moen ahead of Sekac and Bournival I would go on a limb saying that Moen, Budaj will both be sent to waver. And that Bournival and Sekac will get the spots available in the roster.

From the scrimmage they will for sure give every chance to PAP to prove himself beside DD and Pacs. So my lines would be as follows...

PACS, DD, PAP
SEKAC, PLEK, GALLAGHER
GALLCHENYUK, ELLER, BOURQUE
PRUST, MALHORTA, WEIS

EMELIN, SUBAN
MARKOV, GILBERT
BEAULIEU, WEAVER
TINORDI, BOUILLON

PRICE, TOKARSKI.

DONE!

No reason to keep anyone in camp any longer.

 

[Team_Spirit]

My lines :

Pacioretty-DD-Parenteau
Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Sekac
Bourque-Eller-Gallagher
Bournival-Malhotra-Prust/Weise
Big Moe

On D i have to see more.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

They wouldn't have added an extra pick to give away the significantly better player if there weren't injury or attitude issues with Parenteau.

Read my post.

Iginla, O'Reilly, Landeskog and Tanguay. Roy knew Tanguay back when he was still a teen. The other 3 are clearly ahead of Parenteau in the depth chart. Quite obviously, he's not a bottom-6 player. He can only play RW. They needed another C. And they get rid of his salary before, as Briere's contract expires this summer.

Dallas added a 3rd round pick on top of Ryder to get a very bad contract in Erik Cole.
Snow added a 5th round pick with Vanek to get Collberg and a conditional 2nd rounder.

Bergevin is just really good for trades. And obviously, Parenteau and Roy weren't getting along. As far as I know, it wouldn't be the first time a player and a coach don't get along... Doesn't mean the guy is bad.

 

[Slashers98]

Since nobody seems to put Trapper on the top four lines, you have to wonder if
Travis Moen Is The Odd Man Out?

 

[Whitesnake]

The fact we got him for Briere is not an argument. It was a fit issue. It's the same argument as Michel Bergeron, who used to say there was probably an issue with Marian Hossa because he was at his 4th team in 3 years back in 2009-2010. In the end, Colorado has O'Reilly, Iginla, Tanguay and Landeskog as top-6 wingers. Of course, Parenteau would have to be used on the bottom-6 in the big, tough western conference. He wasn't a fit there anymore. Plus, Colorado likely wanted to free some cap space in year 2 of the Iginla deal, already spending big money on the big winner.

In the end, I think it's fair to assess that, based on his talent, and based on what he's done in the past few years, coupled with the fact he apparently showed up in the best shape of his career, Parenteau is our 2nd best winger.

Of course, eventual progression from Galchenyuk can change this pretty quickly. But to say on an offensively challenged team, that Parenteau might as well play on the bottom-6 of our team, yeah... That's a huge stretch buddy.

You are a great winger. You are a top 3 winger, you are a fit anywhere. There's probably a case when it's a wash between an aging Tanguay and Parenteau. Or Iginla. Parenteau last year started well but cooled down a whole lot. He also has consistency issues. If such a player is our 2nd best winger, we are in big trouble. Not saying he won't play like that this year, but as of now, no way should he be regarded as is. But then, it comes down to our own evaluation. NOt going to judge your evaluation solely based because I disagree with you on that point.

But even if at one point he had no room with the AVS....do you seriously think that Brière was actually THE BEST offer he got....or the only one? And if it was the only or the best...what does it say about the teams' evaluation of that player....Sometimes, it's often about evaluation and projection to where a player is going than evaluation of where a player has been.

 

[Redux91]

Just try bournival with galchenyuk and gallagher already...

 

[Treb]

They wouldn't have added an extra pick to give away the significantly better player if there weren't injury or attitude issues with Parenteau.

Pretty sure I read somewhere him and Roy weren't exactly close. Seeing as Roy is coach and has a big hand in trade, it may be a Roy move.

I still think Bergevin won that trade pretty easily in a vacuum. It's good for our side too, since Brière wasn't a fit.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Just try bournival with galchenyuk and gallagher already...

I wouldn't mind them even trying DLR or McCarron.

 

[Dagistitsyn]

I wouldn't mind them even trying DLR or McCarron.

DLR looked better with Eller and Bourque today, I'd leave him there. McCarron maybe just to see if he can elevate his game at all. He's looked out of place so far. Terrible shot.

 

[Rapala]

I really can't wait for a young D to actually show he's ahead of the others though. Tinordi is not involved enough physically, I'd like to see Beaulieu skate more, and Pateryn tries to show what he's good at and showed how heavy and accurate his shot can be, but you can see he's playing a more risky game in scrimmages, and it already cost him.

Tinordi had the biggest collision in either of the scrimmages yesterday
I'm really not sure what you are basing your assessment on.
More to the point why are you trying to take much of anything from a fan appreciation show...

 

[WeThreeKings]

Tinordi had the biggest collision in either of the scrimmages yesterday
I'm really not sure what you are basing your assessment on.
More to the point why are you trying to take much of anything from a fan appreciation show...

It's serious business when every infraction ends in a penalty shot, man.

 

[Corncob]

How 'physically involved' would you expect anyone to be in the first two scrimmages of training camp?

 

[Fazkovsky]

With Weise, Malhotra, Prust and some young guys Moen is for sure the odd man out.

He just doesn't bring anything offensively. I remember seeing a 24 CH episode and Moen missed a scoring chance and I think one of the coaching staff asked Moen '' are you ever gonna make it done Travis? '' Plekanec said I don't think so. You gotta realize Moen is bad.