2014-15 Training Camp Discussion PT.2

[GoodKiwi]

I think so...
No more shooting for 8th or now Wild Card.
A couple of moves away from something real special...

I think about this often and one thing that has me worried is UFA market being so thin these days (because everyone get locked up in long term deals) that we won't get that star forward we need (in my opinion) to put us over the top. I know there are trade routes to explore and in-house talent might step up, so I'm only speaking about the UFA market specifically.
I mean look at this list for the next year:

http://capgeek.com/free-agents/?year_id=2015&team_id=-1&position_id=F&fa_type_id=2

 

[Rapala]

I think about this often and one thing that has me worried is UFA market being so thin these days (because everyone get locked up in long term deals) that we won't get that star forward we need (in my opinion) to put us over the top. I know there are trade routes to explore and in-house talent might step up, so I'm only speaking about the UFA market specifically.
I mean look at this list for the next year:

http://capgeek.com/free-agents/?year_id=2015&team_id=-1&position_id=F&fa_type_id=2

Blockbuster using redundancy...

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I think about this often and one thing that has me worried is UFA market being so thin these days (because everyone get locked up in long term deals) that we won't get that star forward we need (in my opinion) to put us over the top. I know there are trade routes to explore and in-house talent might step up, so I'm only speaking about the UFA market specifically.
I mean look at this list for the next year:

http://capgeek.com/free-agents/?year_id=2015&team_id=-1&position_id=F&fa_type_id=2

That's why it's so important to draft well, develop well and lock up your homegrown talent.

So while we may be a few moves away from something special, the wrong move can really hurt this fanchise. Can't go out there and sign a UFA to fix mistakes and/or plug holes.

 

[Hoople]

You are a great winger. You are a top 3 winger, you are a fit anywhere. There's probably a case when it's a wash between an aging Tanguay and Parenteau. Or Iginla. Parenteau last year started well but cooled down a whole lot. He also has consistency issues. If such a player is our 2nd best winger, we are in big trouble. Not saying he won't play like that this year, but as of now, no way should he be regarded as is. But then, it comes down to our own evaluation. NOt going to judge your evaluation solely based because I disagree with you on that point.

But even if at one point he had no room with the AVS....do you seriously think that Brière was actually THE BEST offer he got....or the only one? And if it was the only or the best...what does it say about the teams' evaluation of that player....Sometimes, it's often about evaluation and projection to where a player is going than evaluation of where a player has been.

The Habs ARE in big trouble offensively........unless we get better production from our wings.

The arguments constantly revert back to DD. And he is the least of our worries.

We only had 3 wingers with more than 15 goals and one of them is now gone.

Hopefully Parenteau has a healthy season and is able to pot goals. And hopefully Galchenyuk will come into his own and become the goal scorer that he is destined to be.

The Habs paid a premium to PK Subban to get him signed long term. We still need an impact winger and this season will reveal a lot.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I think so...
No more shooting for 8th or now Wild Card.
A couple of moves away from something real special...

our forwards and forward depth is looking fantastic.

If Galchenyuk can step it up, Sekac can deliver on these promising glimpses and PAP can be a factor then we'll be one tough tough team to beat. If Bourque wants to play in the regular season then we can take our conference

The D is a bit of a question mark though. We definitely need our young D prospects to step it up. Markov is getting older and we are banking quite a bit on Emelin being better on his left side. But any D corps that has PK on it can't be that bad. Still not very big though.

The goaltending situation seems great. Tokes has solid potential but could have his weaknesses exposed. Should still get better. Budaj is solid and we arguably have the best goalie in the game.

I don't thing we can quite hang with the best of the west yet but we should be in the top 4 in the east.

 

[GoodKiwi]

That's why it's so important to draft well, develop well and lock up your homegrown talent.

So while we may be a few moves away from something special, the wrong move can really hurt this fanchise. Can't go out there and sign a UFA to fix mistakes and/or plug holes.

I disagree. I think that while it's wrong to build a team through UFA, it's perfectly fine to fill a need by acquiring a veteran forward for example. Similar to what LAK did with Williams. Goes without saying that you have to be smart there, but signing a UFA doesn't cost you anything other than $$ and is the quickest way to round out a team when you feel the core is "ripe".

 

[Frank JT]

Moen is appreciate by his teammates. He's a leader in the room.
Gorges and Gionta said recently that he could be a good captain for the Habs...
But the main problem with Moen is that we are stuck with his contract. That's it, that's all.

 

[Rapala]

I disagree. I think that while it's wrong to build a team through UFA, it's perfectly fine to fill a need by acquiring a veteran forward for example. Similar to what LAK did with Williams. Goes without saying that you have to be smart there, but signing a UFA doesn't cost you anything other than $$ and is the quickest way to round out a team when you feel the core is "ripe".

That last piece often falls into place quite easily.
Take Hossa's case he had what 3 cracks at being that guy...
This league now has specialists looking for a spot as money has become secondary..
The trick is to be perceived as go to destination.
We have taken huge strides in that area taxes and all.

 

[Frank JT]

And about Parenteau, was he playing with Tavares when he was in NYI?

 

[GoodKiwi]

That last piece often falls into place quite easily.
Take Hossa's case he had what 3 cracks at being that guy...
This league now has specialists looking for a spot as money has become secondary..
The trick is to be perceived as go to destination.
We have taken huge strides in that area taxes and all.

Yes, I agree, but the market doesn't have a Hossa and even if it will that player will most likely re-sign with his current club never making it to the open market.

When a 36, 39 and 42 year old top the list of free agents next off-season it tells you everything to need to know about its quality.

Maybe we could get Erik Cole back.

 

[Whitesnake]

Moen is appreciate by his teammate. He's a leader in the room.
Gorges and Giontas said recently that he could be a good captain for the Habs...
But the main problem with Moen is that we are stuck with is contract. That's it, that's all.

Budaj is well appreciated. Bouillon is well appreciated. And Moen is well appreciated. And yet....we are ready to move Budaj for Tokarski....are crying every single day Bouillon wears a Habs jersey etc.

And I would bet that Gionta was also appreciated by his teamates...and that so was Gorges. Tons of players are appreciated and yet the business suggest to make new friends and appreciate other players. I'm not going to play Moen if his best feature is how well he's appreciated. And frankly, for his sake, there is certainly a team out there who would make him a regular in their lineup. Just believe that we're done and over with and it's time to move on.

 

[Frank JT]

Budaj is well appreciated. Bouillon is well appreciated. And Moen is well appreciated. And yet....we are ready to move Budaj for Tokarski....are crying every single day Bouillon wears a Habs jersey etc.

And I would bet that Gionta was also appreciated by his teamates...and that so was Gorges. Tons of players are appreciated and yet the business suggest to make new friends and appreciate other players. I'm not going to play Moen if his best feature is how well he's appreciated. And frankly, for his sake, there is certainly a team out there who would make him a regular in their lineup. Just believe that we're done and over with and it's time to move on.

I repeat : «But the main problem with Moen is that we are stuck with his contract. That's it, that's all.»

 

[Whitesnake]

I repeat : «But the main problem with Moen is that we are stuck with his contract. That's it, that's all.»

You are not stuck with a 1,8M$ contract. Okay, you can't trade him to Philly...or Boston and a few more. I could even give you teams that only have 3M and less of cap space. But that means it leaves you with 15 teams.

 

[Rapala]

Yes, I agree, but the market doesn't have a Hossa and even if it will that player will most likely re-sign with his current club never making it to the open market.

When a 36, 39 and 42 year old top the list of free agents next off-season it tells you everything to need to know about its quality.

Maybe we could get Erik Cole back.

I'm talking about guys who may become disgruntled with their current situations.
When thinking in terms of upgrade UFA would be my last resort.
Identify what you need who can fill that role and what assets you are willing to give to get it done.
Timing is everything...

 

[GoodKiwi]

I'm talking about guys who may become disgruntled with their current situations.
When thinking in terms of upgrade UFA would be my last resort.
Identify what you need who can fill that role and what assets you are willing to give to get it done.
Timing is everything...

I agree, but it's much tougher to time a trade as precisely as a UFA signing due to factors like available/expendable assets, current injury situation, target players' availability, etc. Good players won't likely be available to a combination of Moen/Budaj and the price paid will "leave a scar aid or two". Will have to be what's know as a "hockey trade".

And I don't think our team is even at a point where our prospect pool is deep enough to trade one/few away to a re-building team that's willing to let go of their star player.

There's nothing wrong with targeting a UFA player to fill a need once the core is solid.

 

[Rapala]

I agree, but it's much tougher to time a trade as precisely as a UFA signing due to factors like available/expendable assets, current injury situation, target players' availability, etc. Good players won't likely be available to a combination of Moen/Budaj and the price paid will "leave a scar aid or two". Will have to be what's know as a "hockey trade".

And I don't think our team is even at a point where our prospect pool is deep enough to trade one/few away to a re-building team that's willing to let go of their star player.

There's nothing wrong with targeting a UFA player to fill a need once the core is solid.

True it will often take touted but untested players to get a rise.
In our case we seem to be aiming at 2016 as a possible parade date.
That doesn't prevent us from jumping it up a year if certain elements pan out quicker than planned.
You would probably give a pateryn and a hudon if it guaranteed you a SCF.
You would probably give a scherbie if it gave you a cup...
That's why they pay MB and his team the big bucks because somewhere down the road a critical decision is going to have to be taken and there are no guarantees in life.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

The Habs ARE in big trouble offensively........unless we get better production from our wings.

The arguments constantly revert back to DD. And he is the least of our worries.

We only had 3 wingers with more than 15 goals and one of them is now gone.

Hopefully Parenteau has a healthy season and is able to pot goals. And hopefully Galchenyuk will come into his own and become the goal scorer that he is destined to be.

The Habs paid a premium to PK Subban to get him signed long term. We still need an impact winger and this season will reveal a lot.

Again, saying stuffs like this is like provoking us to talk about DD. How is having a the first offensive center playing at an average of 50pts a season in the past 2 years not worrisome?

I get that you like him but what you claim is simply not true. It's not normal the center that plays with a 39 goals scorer only manages to get 50 pts a season. That's the production of a center in Nashville or any low scoring team. If we want to be a cup contender team, our player centering the first line/best wingers has to have a production way higher than that. How can you even deny that.

DD had a weak production last year, regular season AND playoffs. He did have a pretty good last 60 games though but he forgot to play the first 25% of the season and wasn't effective in the playoffs like a first center should have, even if he compete hard but it was overwhelming for him. He had UPS but let's not pretend he doesn't have any lows and say he's the least of our worries.

 

[GoodKiwi]

Again, saying stuffs like this is like provoking us to talk about DD. How is having a the first offensive center playing at an average of 50pts a season in the past 2 years not worrisome?

I get that you like him but what you claim is simply not true. It's not normal the center that plays with a 39 goals scorer only manages to get 50 pts a season. That's the production of a center in Nashville or any low scoring team. If we want to be a cup contender team, our player centering the first line/best wingers has to have a production way higher than that. How can you even deny that.

DD had a weak production last year, regular season AND playoffs. He did have a pretty good last 60 games though but he forgot to play the first 25% of the season and wasn't effective in the playoffs like a first center should have, even if he compete hard but it was overwhelming for him. He had UPS but let's not pretend he doesn't have any lows and say he's the least of our worries.

Newsflash - we are "Nashville". We have never been a team that scored a lot outside of few years here and there. We always do our scoring by committee.

 

[Rapala]

How many games did our PP win us last year?
How about our goaltending?

We need difference makers...
Our PP was sooo dismal for long long stretches last year.
We can't have a repeat of that this year.
It was so bad a one point that if we lost the draw and had to retreat 200ft we often never regained the Ozone

 

[Frank JT]

You are not stuck with a 1,8M$ contract. Okay, you can't trade him to Philly...or Boston and a few more. I could even give you teams that only have 3M and less of cap space. But that means it leaves you with 15 teams.

Maybe it's because everybody in the league knows that he cannot play in the NHL anymore...

 

[Whitesnake]

Maybe it's because everybody in the league knows that he cannot play in the NHL anymore...

Goes back to my initial point. I'M not going to keep a guy who, from your own admission, might not be able to play in the NHL anymore...no matter the contract he has. Send him to waivers....try to accomodate him etc. Frankly, I would not even go to that extent. He could play in this league. There's 30 teams. There are a few Moen's in there who are fine defensively and can bring some physical play. 1,8 is surely too much for a type of player you can find at 800k$. Yet, quite a few teams have tons of room. And they might need a vet on their team.

 

[Whitesnake]

Again, saying stuffs like this is like provoking us to talk about DD. How is having a the first offensive center playing at an average of 50pts a season in the past 2 years not worrisome?

I get that you like him but what you claim is simply not true. It's not normal the center that plays with a 39 goals scorer only manages to get 50 pts a season. That's the production of a center in Nashville or any low scoring team. If we want to be a cup contender team, our player centering the first line/best wingers has to have a production way higher than that. How can you even deny that.

DD had a weak production last year, regular season AND playoffs. He did have a pretty good last 60 games though but he forgot to play the first 25% of the season and wasn't effective in the playoffs like a first center should have, even if he compete hard but it was overwhelming for him. He had UPS but let's not pretend he doesn't have any lows and say he's the least of our worries.

It might be worrisome, but the reason why it's not THAT worrisome is because when you say he's #1, it doesn't mean he's #1 Jonathan Toews style. The overall icetime is well distributed amongst our top 3 C's. Plekanec has almost the same PP time as DD. DD has some traits of a #1, playing with the best winger, starting the PP. But I won't put having more off. zone starts as a reason of his #1 position, as, again, the way our team is build, it's more about giving Pleks and Eller some def. zone starts more than it is about DD getting the off. zone starts.

 

[FF de Mars]

We'll see a lot of Patches-DD-PAP this year. I'm kind of happy Gallagher will reinforce our top 9.

 

[calder candidate]

Since nobody seems to put Trapper on the top four lines, you have to wonder if
Travis Moen Is The Odd Man Out?

Travis was already the odd man out last year... If Parros (Miss ±22 games), Prust (miss± 30 games) and Bournival (Miss ±16 games) don't get injured I don't think Moen would of played more than 15 games last year.

Montreal as enough depth,they need scoring or energy (physical presence) Moen can still play in the NHL but on a team with less depth.

 

[Goldthorpe]

I said it before and I'll say it again: what the habs needs is to assemble a new scoring line, not split Desharnais and Patches. Galchenyuk, as a winger or as a center, will be a part of this puzzle. But Desharnais and Patches are fine where they are.