2013 Winter Classic: Hosted by Wings? Sharks or Toronto Involved?

[Fugu]

So 10,000 students were at a Michigan basketball game in the 12,721 seat Crisler Arena? I find that hard to believe.

Even if that were the case what if some of those students are from out of state? Say they're from Houston. Do you think random college student from Houston is going to care that the Red Wings are playing whoever in the Winter Classic at Michigan Stadium and they have to get tickets to that game? I doubt it.

Students would be lucky to get access to tickets. Wings and opponent STH's would be first in line, then whoever else the NHL wishes to include. U of Mich could try to get some reserve tix for their alumni, who have a lot more money than their students, as part of the deal to use the stadium.

That's what's appealing about 100K capacity. You could satisfy all groups. Michigan's student base is roughly 2/3rds in-state, so I'd gander that the Wings are reasonably popular within that population. (Setting aside the cost of tickets, of course.)

I've heard Toronto's name being floated now. To me, that would be beyond spectacular. The games against the Leafs and Habs here in Michigan are always the hottest tickets in town, and I could see half of the population in Ontario lining up to make the crossing for the game. It would be insane because these two fan bases love heckling each other. Saw a recent quote from one of those discussions about Windsor being red or blue, where someone said, "If you say you're a fan of both the Leafs and Wings, you're not a true fan of either one."


There would be no issue whatsoever in selling out The Big House for a Leafs vs Wings tilt.

 

[LadyStanley]

As for the Sharks... it's not about rewarding teams and never has been. It's about optics and attractiveness and the reality is that the eastern/great lakes teams are the ones with the biggest fanbases and the most history and thus the biggest draws. Putting the Sharks out there might make for a great hockey game, but it won't make Joe Sportsfan from Ohio or New York State watch hockey over college football... and the game would have to be at 10 am local time in San Jose, thus hurting the ratings even further. Although, if they wore Seals jerseys I would be all for it.

So, you're telling me the Sharks have to win the Cup to get a sniff?

Regardless of the fact that last year their every game in the playoffs was decided by one goal (excluding one empty net)? Many in OT.

Is that not attractive to have exciting hockey?

 

[Brodie]

Most of the people they're trying to capture here don't know the Stanley Cup from the Breeder's Cup and though they'd obviously prefer a more attractive game, I think it means more to them to have the teams with the biggest fanbases and most recognizable names. The sad truth is that the Sharks, in spite of being easily the most successful franchise of the 90's expansion teams, just lack the kind of name recognition and casual fanbase that the NHL and NBC are looking to bring in. Plus timzone issues would make it hard to accommodate a West Coast fanbase anyway and moving the game into competition with the Rose Bowl to improve the start time is a bad idea.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Truth be told, if Detroit does get the Winter Classic next year, honestly wouldn't be surprised if they went with Columbus just to build off the Michigan/Ohio rivalry at the Big House. That would get a lot of attention of fans in both states, even people in Ohio that aren't big into hockey, especially if they decided to have a Ohio State/Michigan hockey game there either a few days before or after it as well.

 

[Fugu]

Truth be told, if Detroit does get the Winter Classic next year, honestly wouldn't be surprised if they went with Columbus just to build off the Michigan/Ohio rivalry at the Big House. That would get a lot of attention of fans in both states, even people in Ohio that aren't big into hockey, especially if they decided to have a Ohio State/Michigan hockey game there either a few days before or after it as well.

Nothing against Columbus (city and fans), but I don't think you could find 100,000 people that would want to go to that game.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Nothing against Columbus (city and fans), but I don't think you could find 100,000 people that would want to go to that game.

uh.... which is why they'd have it in the Big House, aka Michigan Stadium. It'd overwhelmingly be Wings/Wolverines fans.

 

[Sunking278]

Detroit hosting the Winter Classic, at whatever facility, in 2013 would be huge. My vote is for Red Wings vs. the Penguins. Yeah, yeah, I know Pittsburgh has played in it twice already, and I know about the whole East Coast bias thing. But, if you truly want a super-charged atmosphere for this game, then put those two teams on the ice against each other. We Wings fans hate the Penguins, and I'm pretty sure Penguin fans share the animosity. The best choice is Pittsburgh, and then Chicago (and Chicago vs. Detroit was already done at Wrigley in 2009, although I suppose a re-match at Comerica or Michigan Stadium isn't completely out-of-the-question.)

St. Louis may be an interesting dark horse option, either as the Wings opponent in 2013, or hosting their own event sometime in the near-future. That's a franchise with solid support that has been under the radar for much of its existence. About time they got some due. As a Cardinals fan, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the Classic held at Busch Stadium. St. Louis is a good sports town, and I believe they would whole-heartily embrace an event like this. Blues vs. Blackhawks at Busch Stadium sounds good to me.

Other cities that I think could host and possibly make it work: Minneapolis/St. Paul (their team has no national profile, but what bigger hockey market is there in the U.S.? Eventually, that franchise is bound to become of the league's bigger entities. Wild vs. Stars wouldn't be the most watched Classic ever, but it'd wouldn't be a bomb either, and would be a lot of fun.) How about an emerging market like Nashville? Not ideal weather-wise, but if they can play an outdoor game in Las Vegas, then they could do it in Nashville. Detroit would make a good opponent for that game. Of course, we all know New York is going to get the game in the near future. Rangers vs. Bruins is a no-brainer there (Rangers vs. either the Islanders or Devils would make for a great atmosphere, but I'm not so sure how keen NBC would be on the idea of two teams from the same market, even if the market is NYC.) Washington is also in line, but I'm not sure who would make the ideal opponent there, other than the obvious re-match with Pittsburgh. Maybe Philadelphia? Denver is the most logical choice of any Western locale, and absolutely should be considered if and when the Avalanche get back on their feet and the fanbase starts returning (and I think they will in time.) They could try a warm weather Classic and do something in Los Angeles, or maybe Cowboys Stadium near Dallas, but that would likely take the 'Winter' aspect out of it (though Dallas does have winter weather from time-to-time.) And, of course, eventually they'll hold a second game at venues that have already hosted. Fenway Park, for instance, will likely host another Classic within the decade.

 

[Sunking278]

One added point: The NHL will eventually try a neutral site Winter Classic game. The state of Wisconsin would be ideal for this. Say, maybe in 2017 or 2018, the Wings and Blackhawks meet at Lambeau Field. What an amazing atmosphere that would be. If that didn't work out, Miller Park in Milwaukee, or even Badger Stadium in Madison are alternatives. Other ideas that I'll throw out there: Camden Yards in Baltimore (Caps vs. Flyers), Progressive Field in Cleveland (Wings vs. Pens, or maybe something involving the Blue Jackets, although I have a hard time picturing Columbus ever playing in one of these), Safeco Field in Seattle (if the NHL really wants to test the waters there; this is where the league and NBC would probably experiment with a Canadian team in the game, as the Canucks do have at least somewhat of a following in the States, and certainly in the Seattle area; indeed, the Canucks would almost have to be involved, as no other NHL team is as likely to sell tickets in Seattle.)

Some long-shot possibilities: Houston (again, testing the waters), State College (Flyers vs. Pens, would have been far more likely before this unfortunate scandal broke out at Penn State; I don't think the NHL would want to associate themselves with that in any manner), Hartford (Rentschler Field seats 40,000, and would be good with a Rangers/Bruins match-up, but we're likely to see that at Yankee Stadium in 2015), Notre Dame Stadium (well, that one may not be so crazy; Blackhawks vs. Wings would easily draw a sellout, and the prestige of playing at Notre Dame would not be lost on the national media), Salt Lake City (host of the 2002 Olympics; again, a testing the waters sort of thing.)

Also, while I do not advocate this, but I think we have to consider the possibility of European cities as potential hosts. The NHL very clearly wants some sort of presence in that market, so I'm sure the idea of doing a Winter Classic there has been discussed.

 

[Fugu]

uh.... which is why they'd have it in the Big House, aka Michigan Stadium. It'd overwhelmingly be Wings/Wolverines fans.

No, Shogun, what I'm saying is that we Wings fan see plenty of the CBJ and wouldn't be very excited about going to the Big House just to see them, when you could get the Leafs or a team from the West that has some excitement to them. That Ohio-Michigan rivalry really doesn't translate to other sports, at all. There would be no 'buzz' to this match up, and you might even have a hard time selling out the Big House. To get 100K+ into that place for NHL hockey, you need some BIG names.

@SunKing. Just say no to the Pens. They've been in it twice, and I'd rather have the Wings face a team like the Leafs, Habs or a California team (Sharks preferably). I honestly don't like the intra-division matchups because it doesn't seem to draw as widely. Chicago-Detroit were exceptions to the rule, I think because they have fan bases that are spread out over the country-- hence the high ratings for the 2009 game. Philly-NYR didn't pull in as high ratings, due to the concentrated Atlantic division 'feel' to that game. (imo)

 

[KzooShark]

and the game would have to be at 10 am local time in San Jose, thus hurting the ratings even further. Although, if they wore Seals jerseys I would be all for it.

This is bunk. They've moved the game to 8pm and 3pm eastern in consecutive years.

As far as NYC, the NHL should just forget about waiting out Yankee Stadium. The only historic thing about it is the name at this point.

Given the success of both Michigan and Michigan State football, I'm curious to see how next year turns out, given that both could easily be playing during the Winter Classic or in the Rose Bowl later that day. They may be better off pre-planning it for 8pm.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

The Twin Cities is an intriguing option. Target Field would be a fine venue, but I'd wait and see re: the (proposed) construction of their new stadium in Arden Hills. Getting 70K+ would definitely be ideal, as opposed to the ~ 40K they could fit at Target.

 

[Brodie]

This is bunk. They've moved the game to 8pm and 3pm eastern in consecutive years.

As far as NYC, the NHL should just forget about waiting out Yankee Stadium. The only historic thing about it is the name at this point.

Given the success of both Michigan and Michigan State football, I'm curious to see how next year turns out, given that both could easily be playing during the Winter Classic or in the Rose Bowl later that day. They may be better off pre-planning it for 8pm.

Do you think after two consecutive years of being forced to move the game, and thus having to go up against the BCS bowls they're intentionally trying to avoid, that NBC would just be hunky dory with putting the game up against the Rose Bowl to start with? The thing's already on a bit of a ratings slide and while I disagree with Fugu's assertion that it would need to be the biggest event yet to draw here, it will certainly need to be pretty big to restore the luster to the property... Wings-Sharks just doesn't seem like something that will play anywhere outside of Detroit and San Jose, something evidenced by the lack of anyone outside of California advocating for such a matchup.

Re: Michigan/MSU... it will be a factor, but I doubt it will actively hurt the Red Wings. For example, I imagine the reason Detroit didn't crack the top 10 markets for this WC was due to college football... but if we have a vested interest a lot of people will switch between the channels or just watch the Wings (there are many, many Michiganders with little to no rooting interest in Wolverines or Spartans sports)

 

[No Fun Shogun]

No, Shogun, what I'm saying is that we Wings fan see plenty of the CBJ and wouldn't be very excited about going to the Big House just to see them, when you could get the Leafs or a team from the West that has some excitement to them. That Ohio-Michigan rivalry really doesn't translate to other sports, at all. There would be no 'buzz' to this match up, and you might even have a hard time selling out the Big House. To get 100K+ into that place for NHL hockey, you need some BIG names.

Oh gotcha, my bad. Thought you were implying that the game would be in Columbus.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/04/toronto-mayor-pushes-for-winter-classic/

Toronto mayor wants Winter Classic between Toronto & Montreal.



I can see this as a Heritage Classic, but not a "Winter Classic" (on NBC). Too many US households would care less.

 

[GopherState]

The Twin Cities is an intriguing option. Target Field would be a fine venue, but I'd wait and see re: the (proposed) construction of their new stadium in Arden Hills. Getting 70K+ would definitely be ideal, as opposed to the ~ 40K they could fit at Target.

If it ever happens, the new Vikings stadium would have a retractable roof at best.

 

[Fugu]

Re: Michigan/MSU... it will be a factor, but I doubt it will actively hurt the Red Wings. For example, I imagine the reason Detroit didn't crack the top 10 markets for this WC was due to college football... but if we have a vested interest a lot of people will switch between the channels or just watch the Wings (there are many, many Michiganders with little to no rooting interest in Wolverines or Spartans sports)

Oddly, I didn't watch any football that day, nor the WC. Obviously this is anecdotal, but given the imbalance of the NHL schedule and East vs West separation that has been foisted on us for years now, I can't really relate to a Philly-NYR game. That was such a NYC-centric match up that I'm surprised the NHL opted for it. Buffalo-Pitt as the first WC was interesting only because it was the first. After that, I felt like you needed something more nationally appealing to really draw the bigger audience--- either nationally followed teams like Det and Chi, or recognizable stars like AO vs Crosby.

 

[kdb209]

This thread on the main board - detroit toronto winter classic next year - is claiming that Sportsnet Hockey Central is reporting that next year will be the Leafs / Wings at either the Big House or Comerica - however I haven't seen any link in that thread to confirm it.

Just saw on hockeycentral that its basically 100% that this is going to be next years game. Detroit is hosting and its either going to be at comerica or the big house (michigan football stadium).

Illitch owns comerica but if they do it at the big house they could pack 115,000 people in there and make 10 million off the gate alone.

This game will probably end up being the craziest so far if it happens

 

[Fugu]

This thread on the main board - detroit toronto winter classic next year - is claiming that Sportsnet Hockey Central is reporting that next year will be the Leafs / Wings at either the Big House or Comerica - however I haven't seen any link in that thread to confirm it.

Yeah, there's talk about that on the Wings board too, but Sportsnet is the only alleged place making that claim. I'm not putting too much stock in it just yet, but I do agree a Leafs-Wings WC could sell about 200,000 tickets. I'm just not sure the border patrol could clear all of them in time for the game though.

 

[KuralySnipes]

NBC would not allow that. There would only be the normal top markets interested in this (Detroit, Pennsylvania, New England, Buffalo) and no draw with a Canadian team in this..

 

[Fugu]

NBC would not allow that. There would only be the normal top markets interested in this (Detroit, Pennsylvania, New England, Buffalo) and no draw with a Canadian team in this..

That is the common wisdom, but the Sportsnet claim is that a billing against the Leafs is enough to surmount the opposition to anything Canadian. Everyone's heard of Toronto.

 

[KuralySnipes]

That is the common wisdom, but the Sportsnet claim is that a billing against the Leafs is enough to surmount the opposition to anything Canadian. Everyone's heard of Toronto.

Haha but many Americans are also arrogant toward Canadian teams anyways which is another reason why I don't think this would work. I witness the arrogance first hand living in America.

 

[Fugu]

Haha but many Americans are also arrogant toward Canadian teams anyways which is another reason why I don't think this would work. I witness the arrogance first hand living in America.

I'm not sure what you mean about the arrogance angle.

What I'm trying to say that given the proximity to Toronto (from Detroit, which is about as close as Chicago), and the history between the two teams, with the border between the US/Can right in Detroit..... this would be huge for two of hockey's biggest markets and fan bases.

Plus, both teams have huge followings through the US and Canada. Yes, there are Leafs fans in the US, and there are Wings fans throughout Canada.

 

[KuralySnipes]

I'm not sure what you mean about the arrogance angle.

What I'm trying to say that given the proximity to Toronto (from Detroit, which is about as close as Chicago), and the history between the two teams, with the border between the US/Can right in Detroit..... this would be huge for two of hockey's biggest markets and fan bases.

Plus, both teams have huge followings through the US and Canada. Yes, there are Leafs fans in the US, and there are Wings fans throughout Canada.

In NBC, and HBO's point of view Toronto isn't in the US which in their view would mean less viewership

 

[Fugu]

In NBC, and HBO's point of view Toronto isn't in the US which in their view would mean less viewership

Like we've been saying on the Wings board, the potential to pitch 110K crazed Leafs and Wings fans against each other at the Big House is beyond incredible. If the league really wants to put on a show, and one that highlights the passion of its fans and teams--- this could do it. Lots of history, buzz, with recognizable elements like U of Michigan Stadium as a venue (for the casual sports fans in the US).

 

[FissionFire]

I am salivating over the thought of a Wings/Leafs Winter Classic. There is nothing that would give a boost back to that event like a matchup between those teams. While I'm not really a fan of playing it at UMich I won't deny that it would be pretty incredible to see at that place packed with two rabid fanbases who have a long history. While many newer fans many not appreciate the old Wings/Leafs rivalry I can assure you that it's still very much alive and most people 40+ still think of the O6, and especially Toronto and Montreal, as our biggest rivals both locally and nationally.