2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 6.0

[Monctonscout]

We have a lot of players who are able to distribute the puck, but few able to score ala Ryder (aka pure goal scorer 30+). In the upcoming years, our finishers should be Gally and Patches, I would like more in the pipes.

Who, in your opinion, are the best pure scorers in this draft, and who could be avalaible in late 1st round and early 2nd ?

Thank you

Mantha

But I'm against drafting for need that early in the draft. This is not the NFL draft, you draft guys so they can contribute in 3-4-5 years, not in 13-14. First 4-6 picks draft BPA.

 

[yianik]

The one kid I would be concerned about in terms of what you said about Ryan...Zykov. He is big and strong and drives the net and can finish...but with average speed and no longer being bigger(210-215lbs) than his opponent will his game translate to the NHL?

Gauthier relies on smarts, vision and hockey sense along with above average size...however his body is still a lot more raw at 6'5" 210lbs than Zykov at 6' 210-215lbs. Plus Gauthier has a nice skating stide which could translate to above average(Eller like) speed for a big man.

Having average speed, as in skates like the average NHL player should be just fine for a player who is average sized or bigger. The problem with Ryan was he was slow by NHL standards and so the good qualities he had couldn't overcome his inability to be up with the play. So, as an example, while he was willing to drive the net, it didn't do him any good since by the time he made it up the ice on the rush the play was already over, so no Bourque like tip in like plays. He was too slow to get back to back check so a defensive liability etc.

 

[Monctonscout]

Having average speed, as in skates like the average NHL player should be just fine for a player who is average sized or bigger. The problem with Ryan was he was slow by NHL standards and so the good qualities he had couldn't overcome his inability to be up with the play. So, as an example, while he was willing to drive the net, it didn't do him any good since by the time he made it up the ice on the rush the play was already over, so no Bourque like tip in like plays. He was too slow to get back to back check so a defensive liability etc.

I'm not suggesting Zykov will be a bust because of this...but to me he has a higher bust risk than guys like Morin Gauthier and even Mantha.

 

[yianik]

I'm not suggesting Zykov will be a bust because of this...but to me he has a higher bust risk than guys like Morin Gauthier and even Mantha.

Im actually not familiar enough with most of the individual players to make any comment on their pros and cons, I was just making a general comment on the size issue translating to the NHL with a couple of specific players I do know about as an example. The skating issue for me became a real problem for the team in the Houle days because we burned so many 1st round picks because we kept drafting guys who had lots of good qualities, but couldn't skate eg Terry Ryan, Matt Higgins, Eric Chouinard, Jason Ward etc. As a rule of thumb, and I know there are exceptions, if a guy cant skate you don't draft him in the 1st round, unless hes a goalie. Back then, the team would say the player will improve his foot speed, but never would enough to make it. I just decided that for me, picking a guy who would be a star if he could just improve his speed was always a trap for wasting a pick, because none of the number of guys we chose with that deficiency were ever able to overcome it.

 

[SgtPepper]

Mantha

But I'm against drafting for need that early in the draft. This is not the NFL draft, you draft guys so they can contribute in 3-4-5 years, not in 13-14. First 4-6 picks draft BPA.

Oh I agree about BPA.

The last 2 1st round picks that Timmins did based on GM pressure were busts, Fischer (He was told to draft a Dman), and Leblanc (Draft in MTL).

However, if the best player avalaible is a scorer, that would be perfect, that's why I was wondering if in the 2nd or 3rd round Timmins could hit (as usual) a homerun.

We also need to fuel the system with some goalie depth...

 

[CH4]

We have a lot of players who are able to distribute the puck, but few able to score ala Ryder (aka pure goal scorer 30+). In the upcoming years, our finishers should be Gally and Patches, I would like more in the pipes.

Who, in your opinion, are the best pure scorers in this draft, and who could be avalaible in late 1st round and early 2nd ?

Thank you

Zykov and Mantha.

Zykov if available in our 1st spot would be a no brainer.

 

[bcv]

Is Kujawinski worth it in the 3rd+ round?

 

[Mrb1p]

Is Kujawinski worth it in the 3rd+ round?

Totally, he's still highly skilled and big. He's kind of inconsistent, but he's a good gamble, especially in the third.

 

[24rings]

I would like to take a gamble on Cammarata with our 2nd rounder, depending on who we take with the 3 picks before that.
If we draft Petan id pass on Cammarata and take somebody bigger. i wouldn't want 2 guys who are 5'7 with our top 4 picks but if that does happen IN TIMMINS WE TRUST

 

[Monctonscout]

Oh I agree about BPA.

The last 2 1st round picks that Timmins did based on GM pressure were busts, Fischer (He was told to draft a Dman), and Leblanc (Draft in MTL).

However, if the best player avalaible is a scorer, that would be perfect, that's why I was wondering if in the 2nd or 3rd round Timmins could hit (as usual) a homerun.

We also need to fuel the system with some goalie depth...

None of the guys drafted after LeBlanc scream Best Player Available. He was drafted about where everybody had him, being a local kid was just a bonus. People are panicking a bit too much due to his off year, the guy just turned 22 and he looked to be on the right track before this year(11-12 22 points in 31 AHL games and 10 points in 42 NHL games at 20).

I can see it with Fischer but at this point it's just speculation. From what we have heard Timmins has had the freedom of choice at the draft.

 

[S Bah]

I can see Florida with a very potent PP next season with the two Johnathan's and one of the Panthers veteran RW's. Possibly Versteeg or Kopecky with Huberdeau at center and Drouin at LW,that's a good line maybe Quinton Howden as the RW. Jealous as Hell am I, the Habs better get their quotient of good francophone players in this draft. Where they draft there will be quite a few,hopefully ones with an NHL future.

 

[kernkraft]

None of the guys drafted after LeBlanc scream Best Player Available. He was drafted about where everybody had him, being a local kid was just a bonus. People are panicking a bit too much due to his off year, the guy just turned 22 and he looked to be on the right track before this year(11-12 22 points in 31 AHL games and 10 points in 42 NHL games at 20).

I can see it with Fischer but at this point it's just speculation. From what we have heard Timmins has had the freedom of choice at the draft.

this

nobody got a lot of points in Hamilton this season, not even Gallagher when he was there. the games I watched, his name was mentioned pretty often. I'm not overly concerned, but my expectations have been tempered a bit. I expect a solid 3rd liner out of him, sort of like Jeff Halpern.

 

[Treb]

I can see Florida with a very potent PP next season with the two Johnathan's and one of the Panthers veteran RW's. Possibly Versteeg or Kopecky with Huberdeau at center and Drouin at LW,that's a good line maybe Quinton Howden as the RW. Jealous as Hell am I, the Habs better get their quotient of good francophone players in this draft. Where they draft there will be quite a few,hopefully ones with an NHL future.

Doubt Drouin is ready for 1st line/1st PP, but knowing Florida lack of high-end forward, he may be rushed in the spotlight. Galchenyuk/Yakupov/Gallagher minutes may be better for him than 20+ minutes a night at his age/build.

 

[Draft]

That's not a floater. I'm referring to someone that just goes on the ice and glides and never touches the puck. That's a floater, and it was Gauthier more often than not.


He appears to be floating because he can go 10 shifts in a row without touching the puck or keeping possession.


I've seen him play many times, thats why I don't particularly like him. Same with Mantha. It's not about my negative bias against player from QC, its about you positive bias for big players from QC. In this draft, Gauthier is a dime a dozen player, so is Mantha. There's no need to get crazy over him.

This feels like the Grigorenko fad all over again.

I've seen just about equal amounts of most players in the top-40 range. I can definitely tell you that Mantha and Gauthier are not a dime a dozen. I am not just a huge fan of players from the QMJHL, I don't feel as if I'm over valuing them. They may not play the style you're interested in but I can tell you that they both have big upside. Players with their size and skill level are not very popular in any draft. When you have two players over 6'4 that are elite either offensively or defensively it's a rare option. Of course there's a big amount of risk involved but if either of these players turn out, you're talking about very unique players. Neither are soft and both have power forward potential. There's no need to move into the top-15 for Gauthier and Mantha, that's ridiculous. I'd say they're both top-20 material.

 

[Mrb1p]

I can see Florida with a very potent PP next season with the two Johnathan's and one of the Panthers veteran RW's. Possibly Versteeg or Kopecky with Huberdeau at center and Drouin at LW,that's a good line maybe Quinton Howden as the RW. Jealous as Hell am I, the Habs better get their quotient of good francophone players in this draft. Where they draft there will be quite a few,hopefully ones with an NHL future.

I doubt Florida passes on Mackinnon to draft a lesser and similar player to Huberdeau.

I've seen just about equal amounts of most players in the top-40 range. I can definitely tell you that Mantha and Gauthier are not a dime a dozen. I am not just a huge fan of players from the QMJHL, I don't feel as if I'm over valuing them. They may not play the style you're interested in but I can tell you that they both have big upside. Players with their size and skill level are not very popular in any draft. When you have two players over 6'4 that are elite either offensively or defensively it's a rare option. Of course there's a big amount of risk involved but if either of these players turn out, you're talking about very unique players. Neither are soft and both have power forward potential. There's no need to move into the top-15 for Gauthier and Mantha, that's ridiculous. I'd say they're both top-20 material.

They're dime a dozen... It's not a knock on them, its just that the draft pool is that good. Oh and I doubt Gauthier is elite in something. He's about average in everything, he's just tall... Playing the way he does, if he was 6' He'd be ranked mid 2nd round. Consider that Mantha is older than 90% of the rest... You can see why he had good numbers.

Still at our pick, I have no problem drafting them, but I'm not going crazy with them like you do, because they're clearly not the type of players you make them out to be.

 

[Draft]

I doubt Florida passes on Mackinnon to draft a lesser and similar player to Huberdeau.




They're dime a dozen... It's not a knock on them, its just that the draft pool is that good. Oh and I doubt Gauthier is elite in something. He's about average in everything, he's just tall... Playing the way he does, if he was 6' He'd be ranked mid 2nd round. Consider that Mantha is older than 90% of the rest... You can see why he had good numbers.

Still at our pick, I have no problem drafting them, but I'm not going crazy with them like you do, because they're clearly not the type of players you make them out to be.

Gauthier plays a top-notch defensive game, also capable offensively. The fact that he is 6'5, hasn't filled out and at the same level as those mid-2nd picks puts him way ahead of the other players. Size like that automatically improves his potential to be an impact player. Whether you or I like it or not, size is a huge part of sport and hockey. I'm judging both of them purely based on potential, not on how complete their game is right now.

To each his own I suppose.

 

[yianik]

Oh I agree about BPA.

The last 2 1st round picks that Timmins did based on GM pressure were busts, Fischer (He was told to draft a Dman), and Leblanc (Draft in MTL).

However, if the best player avalaible is a scorer, that would be perfect, that's why I was wondering if in the 2nd or 3rd round Timmins could hit (as usual) a homerun.

We also need to fuel the system with some goalie depth...

What is the source that TT was told to draft a D man and do we know who he wanted to draft if that was the case?

 

[clearwater]

What is the source that TT was told to draft a D man and do we know who he wanted to draft if that was the case?

Nick Moutrey 6'3 210 Lb skilled power forward, who is a very good skater has been invited to the NHL combine and Canadians personal conbine in June.

 

[MXD]

Oh I agree about BPA.

The last 2 1st round picks that Timmins did based on GM pressure were busts, Fischer (He was told to draft a Dman), and Leblanc (Draft in MTL).

However, if the best player avalaible is a scorer, that would be perfect, that's why I was wondering if in the 2nd or 3rd round Timmins could hit (as usual) a homerun.

We also need to fuel the system with some goalie depth...

Actually, the only evidence about this was at the effect that he was picking Leblanc regardless.

What's your evidence?

 

[Sala90]

Nick Moutrey 6'3 210 Lb skilled power forward, who is a very good skater has been invited to the NHL combine and Canadians personal conbine in June.

There is now Nick Moutrey and Samuel Henley. Are there other players officially invited ?

 

[Treb]

Nick Moutrey 6'3 210 Lb skilled power forward, who is a very good skater has been invited to the NHL combine and Canadians personal conbine in June.

What is the relation with the quoted post?

 

[SgtPepper]

What is the source that TT was told to draft a D man and do we know who he wanted to draft if that was the case?

It is very faint but I remember it was Renaud Lavoie, talking about draft day a couple of years ago, saying that management had asked Timmins to *heavily favor* a Dman during the 2006 draft.
I think he wanted Mitera (who was taken 1 spot in front of Fischer).

For Leblanc, no matter how high Timmins had Leblanc on his list (yes I saw the pic with his name on top), I felt it was more of a publicity stunt that a quebecer was drafted in MTL.

As for Mantha, a scorer that size is impressive but a few reports I read this evening said he still needed to learn how to use it, become grittier.

 

[Monctonscout]

It is very faint but I remember it was Renaud Lavoie, talking about draft day a couple of years ago, saying that management had asked Timmins to *heavily favor* a Dman during the 2006 draft.
I think he wanted Mitera (who was taken 1 spot in front of Fischer).

For Leblanc, no matter how high Timmins had Leblanc on his list (yes I saw the pic with his name on top), I felt it was more of a publicity stunt that a quebecer was drafted in MTL.

As for Mantha, a scorer that size is impressive but a few reports I read this evening said he still needed to learn how to use it, become grittier.

How is it a publicity stunt when most teams/scouting agencies had him mid 1st round. This is the NHL I doubt they draft a guy taht belongs in the 3rd round at #18 overall just to get a local guy.

 

[S Bah]

Nick Moutrey 6'3 210 Lb skilled power forward, who is a very good skater has been invited to the NHL combine and Canadians personal conbine in June.

Love it that's two for two so far, counting Samuel Henley as well.

 

[JustAHabFan]

After tonight game, we really need to draft big forwards with grit.