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Relegate the Oilers
Can't argue that. I just wish our guys we're getting the job done like they have in the past.
#freegreiss
Speculation: 2013 - 2014 Season Roster Part 5
- Thread starter SniperHF
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Can't argue that. I just wish our guys we're getting the job done like they have in the past.
#freegreiss
The several weeks without Doan showed that we still have a hole in our offense. If we lose one piece like him we become very shallow. Especially if Ribs/Boeds/Vrby become cold. Adding another top 6 just gives the team more balance. It is something we absolutely needs. We went to OT 6 times in a row. If we had another top 6 I would imagine some of those would have been wins, and some wouldn't have even gone to OT. The TOR game comes in mind.
IPreferPi
A Nonny Mouse
I have mixed feelings on making a play for Girardi. I think Girardi would immensely help stabilize our blueline and has proven to be far more durable then either Z or Klesla so far in his career, and is way better of a shutdown option than Morris. But with the surprise emergence of Murphy, the right side of our D has gotten crowded. We'd probably have to trade Rundblad for Girardi, and seeing that the Rags have been needing a RH PMD for a while, that might be the only trade that could work.
If Girardi does gel with us, it does give up some flexibility with (not) retaining Morris and/or Z next offseason.
If Girardi does gel with us, it does give up some flexibility with (not) retaining Morris and/or Z next offseason.
letowskie
Registered User
That's the kind of low risk move that can be made immediately.
If we land someone like him, I hope we will try him into a 3rd line role with Vermette. We would still ideally need a top-6 guy to fill our top 2 lines, so that they can go toe to toe with most other Western teams come playoff time.
letowskie
Registered User
I think the recent slide has taught us a lot. But one of these things the management can definitely do something about.
While the players all need to perform more consistently, it is not realistic to expect a few top players on the team to be always "on". Most players have natural tendencies to have hot/cold streaks, that's just a part of professional hockey. It is more evident when we lose an important player to injury in an area that we're thin (wings). It needs to be addressed front and center, if we are to become the consistent playoff threat that we aspire to be. It's just not a good sign that we have to field guys like Klinkhammer, Korpido, Moss, etc, on a top-6 role for an extended period of time.
It could be done this off-season, or before the TDL. I think given the state of the team and the 1st half that we had, we have a non-negligible chance of doing some serious damage, IF we can build up the wing depth to be similar to the depth of our other positions. If one, preferably two acquisitons can be made (1 long term, 1 rental) on the wings, we can be a serious contender once we gel. I'd prefer not waste another season whining about how our woeful forward depth doomed us in the playoff race or in a first round series.
zerekstar
Registered User
There are rumors that Skinner could be had. I find it hard to believe but if it's true, because of his age and ability, he might be worth paying the asking price for.
drgregg
SLAP CHOP
I gotta agree and disagree Ted. Earlier in the year offense was no problem, the team seemingly scored at will, winning games that they had no business even being close in. Recently, the offense has gone ice cold and goals have been hard to come by.
I see our goals against problem breaking down to
a) we spend so little time in the offensive zone and the shots that get off are from far out, usually with no traffic in front. As a result shot totals look lopsided, but many of those shots are ineffectual and way to much time is spent in our own end. Actual offensive talent/hard work/cycling would go a long way to help in that regard.
b) the awful backbreaking penalty kill, we are 26th in the league, ouch. I would be curious to hear what people see is the problem there; personnel, system both?
letowskie
Registered User
Yeah, he would be perfect for the short and long term. He could have a lot impact on our top lines starting this season.
What kind of package would we offer though. I think they need future LHD, given that both of their top young Ds, Faulk and R. Murphy, are both on the right side. So Gormley would be someone that would naturally be considered. But Gormley by himself probably doesn't come close to a proven top-line young NHL forward's value. And we will need that skating and shiftiness from the RHD side from Rundblad/Murphy pretty soon, assuming that DMo won't be here forever.
I would also include someone like Stone. Honestly, this season we may see his peak value, as he is playing well, and had a hot start; but long run, he's not someone that fits the best with a team that requires mobility and transition game from their D. He's very suited for a more traditional defensive role with occasional PP time. This season might be the right time to move him.
We can also include F prospects like the usual suspects Brown/Lessio/Miele, and possibly H. Samuelsson depends on the deal.
Maybe I'm a little out there, I would make an offer of :
Gormley + Stone + Brown + 2nd
for
Skinner + 3rd
Not sure if that gets it done. But it's got to be fairly close.
I don't think that would even be close. They would be looking at Yandle type value not prospects and a third pairing Dman
drgregg
SLAP CHOP
If you think Skinner could gel with Ribeiro, he would be incredible, and still so young. Would be curious to see what they would want.
letowskie
Registered User
Exactly.
We thrive on sound defensive coverage + transition + puck possession.
While the first two haven't been ideal in the last stretch of games, we have the personelle (when healthy) to get it done, especially when OEL + Z return. That is not going to be a long term problem.
On the other hand, our ability to maintain possession the neutral and O-zone is in the toilet. We just don't have the skilled forwards to execute plays, and avoid having to dump every time. When the forwards are working well, we don't spend nearly the same amount of time in our own end.
Realistically, we have only 6 forwards that can be called skilled by NHL standard: Doan, Rib, Hanz, Vrbata, Vermette, Boedker; and only 3 of them are wingers. The rest sometimes play and spirited game, and could chip in offence, but should never be counted on tor produce. If we can add to this crop 1-2 (hopefully 2) skilled wings, then our lineup and possession game would look much more formidable; as we would be able to have 3 lines that can effectively and consistently take advantage of transition from the D.
I have to assume any trade for Skinner would involve Yandle or OEL going the other way which makes it a non-starter in my opinion and likely DM's as well.
How long is Z out? With him out, we really need a minute eating PK guy on the right side. Murphy/Morris/Stone are questionable as a group, even if some are playing better than expected.
Rundblad is the probable trade. IMO its either him or Yandle, but I don't expect to see both of them in the lineup at the same time on a regular basis.
drgregg
SLAP CHOP
We are on the same wavelength.
You have identified our 3 established offensive pairs: Doan/Rib, Hanz/Vrbata, Boed/Vermette; the problem is none of these is a trio. Rounding out 2 of these into trios would go a very long way.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
RE: Brad Boyes - he's looked decent on paper. However, as I understand it, he's been benched and even scratched several times due to lazy defensive effort.
DesertDawg
Registered User
IMO, the biggest need that can be rectify right now and shouldn't be expensive, is an upgrade to the 4th line center position.
Ideally we could bring in both Moulson and Girardi, but I'm not sure we have enough assets or dollars to make that work.
letowskie
Registered User
No kiddin!
Given what we learned now, I'd like to update the list of the players that are possibly available; those wingers that we could realistically pursue this season:
- Tor:
- Raymond
- Kulemin
- Phil:
- Hartnell (salary retained)
- Simmonds (will be hard to pry away)
- NJ:
- Elias (rental)
- Jagr (rental)
- Nash:
- Legwand (rental, salary retained)
- Hornqvist (most Pred fans do not want to move him for futures)
- WPG:
- Setoguchi (rental)
- Frolik
- Ladd (Jets fans accepted Gormley + Moss + 1st )
- Cal:
- Stemps (rental)
- Hudler (possibly retain salary, depending on what we give up)
- CBJ:
- Umberger (possible salary retained, depending on assets given up)
- Letestu
- Car:
- Gerbe
- Tlusty
- Skinner (gonna be expensive, expecting them to ask for Yandle)
- Buff:
- Moulson (rental, Buff fans expecting 1st +; not likely)
- Stafford
- NYI:
- Nielson
- Bailey
- NYR:
- Callahan (rental)
- Brassard
- Fla:
- Flash (possibly salary retained)
- Boyes (rental, possible effort/attitude problem?)
- Upshall (hope his body holds up)
- Edm:
- Hemsky (rental)
- Smyth (rental)
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letowskie
Registered User
Whenever we have Z back, I don't think Girardi would be necessary. We already have Z, DMo, Stone, Murphy on the RHD, Rundblad is still waiting for ice time. If we acquire any D this season, it needs to be a LHD; Girardi doesn't work.
Our D just needs to be healthy and we will be fine. No need to give up assets for a redundant/minor upgrade/rental, like Girardi. We need the following:
1. Better play from Smith or Greiss is our new starter. Greiss has played better then Smith in my opinion.
2. A bottom 6 PK/grinder like Gordon. We should be able to get what we need without giving up too much in the way of assets.
3. Top 6 winger- I would love for it to be Skinner or Moulson. Skinner will likely cost too much for a deal to be made and we will get out bid at the TDL for Moulson, a rental. I know you guys don't like it but I think Upshall makes sense. It won't cost us too much and Tip/DM know what they are getting.
1. Better play from Smith or Greiss is our new starter. Greiss has played better then Smith in my opinion.
2. A bottom 6 PK/grinder like Gordon. We should be able to get what we need without giving up too much in the way of assets.
3. Top 6 winger- I would love for it to be Skinner or Moulson. Skinner will likely cost too much for a deal to be made and we will get out bid at the TDL for Moulson, a rental. I know you guys don't like it but I think Upshall makes sense. It won't cost us too much and Tip/DM know what they are getting.
drgregg
SLAP CHOP
My biggest beef about Upshall is his durability. He is simply too fragile to hitch our wagon to.
I agree, but if he makes it to the TDL this might be the one season he can play all the way through. His injury history is enough of a risk that you don't trade roster players as part of the deal. If he gets traded back here and then gets injured you don't want to be in a worse position.
Ideally we could add two scoring wings to pay with one of the three pairs that have been previously mentioned. I would love to have a Gordon replacement, but I don't think it's going to happen. The big attempt at that was getting Halpern and they'll have to move a body if they want to get someone in here for that role.
If you are able to get two scoring players to play the top 3 lines (frankly they are all about equal so you could consider them our scoring lines), then I don't think the Gordon replacement is as critical. I suspect they will try for a scenario of either getting 2 scoring wingers or 1 scoring winger and the Gordon replacement.
I don't think there is anything to the Girardi rumor, and if there is I hope it's nothing more than a Rundblad, Schlemko, depth-D type of upgrade and not a swap of one of our top 4.
letowskie
Registered User
Yeah, Guess Upshall would not be too shabby of an addition. I'm a little concerned with his contract length, combined with the fact that he may miss a big chunk of a season at a time; that's something that a team like ours can ill afford to have happen to us. I guess we can try to acquire him and just cross our fingers.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
No Interest In Upshall
If Florida retained 50% and required only a 5th round pick in return I'd consider it. Still a very good chance I'd decline.
In the last seven seasons (the only seven as a full time NHLer without time spent in the AHL):
37/43gp
27/48gp
26/82gp
82/82gp
49/82gp
74/82gp
61/82gp
356/501gp
That's only 71% of gp. Over 82 that's only 58gp.
He had 158pts in that time. That's .44ppg which is great if he plays 82, but we know that a Scottie Upshall season is only 58 so that's only 26pts a year.
He's a 58gp, 26pt per season player. He's 30 and makes 3.5 million bucks. Terrible.
If he made 1.75m(50% retention) that'd still be TERRIBLE value for a 26pt player who has never played any significant time for any team on either specialty team. No pp. No PK. 26 points and 1.75m. No thanks.
Florida might be able to move him in a deal like this:
Scottie Upshall(50% retained) plus 2014 2nd for a 2016 7th
I don't believe he can be a top six forward for us. My point is that an injury-prone, 34 point player that contributes nothing else in any other facet of the game is grossly overpaid at 3.5m/yr. A little less so at 1.75m/yr. but still not worth the trouble of using a roster spot on. We've already got a Rob Klinkhammer, who's essentially the same player, but younger, cheaper, healthier, bigger, stronger, and more effective on a cycling forecheck. We don't need an older, smaller, more expensive burned out version. I just don't think Upshall is a good fit for this team, and I think he's got a TERRIBLE value contract, which IMO, makes him very, very long shot as a Don Maloney acquisition.
I know you like him and think he'd be a good fit. I just disagree. That's all.
If Florida retained 50% and required only a 5th round pick in return I'd consider it. Still a very good chance I'd decline.
In the last seven seasons (the only seven as a full time NHLer without time spent in the AHL):
37/43gp
27/48gp
26/82gp
82/82gp
49/82gp
74/82gp
61/82gp
356/501gp
That's only 71% of gp. Over 82 that's only 58gp.
He had 158pts in that time. That's .44ppg which is great if he plays 82, but we know that a Scottie Upshall season is only 58 so that's only 26pts a year.
He's a 58gp, 26pt per season player. He's 30 and makes 3.5 million bucks. Terrible.
If he made 1.75m(50% retention) that'd still be TERRIBLE value for a 26pt player who has never played any significant time for any team on either specialty team. No pp. No PK. 26 points and 1.75m. No thanks.
Florida might be able to move him in a deal like this:
Scottie Upshall(50% retained) plus 2014 2nd for a 2016 7th
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Your not going to get a top 6 forward, .5 ppg this year and pay him 1.75 mil for 2 years, and get him for a 5th round pick. That is totally unrealistic. Upshall's last major injury happened away from the rink and he takes much better care of himself these days. Doan, Verby, Hanzel, DMO, Klesla and Z, all miss plenty of time every year, at least the last few years. Do we not want any of them because they are injury prone?
Past the injury issue, which I think is a non-factor, do we want Upshall, can he help? Outside of this year, last time he was healthy and played well was for the Coyotes. Keep in mind the crappy team he is on and his solid +/- stat. Think DMO-Z-Verby. Would I rather have Skinner or ROR, yes. We don't have the budget for that type of player and they would likely want a core piece back. A trade at the dead line is going to be an Upshall type player, might as well be him, we know what we are getting...
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