20-21 Season Tank Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)
- Thread starter valkynax
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Please make it end.
lawrence
Registered User
- May 19, 2012
- 16,164
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nah no playoffs and no top 10 pick. Strange hockey club.
Jinx thread. I say we change this to a mediocrity thread. Then we will either do very good or very bad
Dab
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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lawrence
Registered User
- May 19, 2012
- 16,164
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Demko is a fricking gawd. His stats is insane if you take away his Montreal matches. At the same time Montreal can take away all their nuck games and they are a shitty club. Let’s just honest for a second. Demko is pretty much trending a top 5 goalie in the nhl. Meanwhile we have 10.3 million in cap room (ericksson Holtby) doing shit for us.
strange hockey club I swear. Buffalo seems to be everyone’s bitch, islanders continue to make the Devils their bitch, senators continue to our bitches yet we are the habs bitch, wth is happenin.
strange hockey club I swear. Buffalo seems to be everyone’s bitch, islanders continue to make the Devils their bitch, senators continue to our bitches yet we are the habs bitch, wth is happenin.
He's playing like a top-5 goalie, yet the management group didn't believe he could be this good, otherwise how do you explain spending 4.3MM x 2 years on a veteran goalie with pedigree instead of pursuing the correct strategy of going cheap on a backup and upgrading the roster (Toffoli's 17 goals for 4.25MM for example).
We're in another situation where we have a goalie playing top-5 in the league...and they don't have a contract past the current season. Absolute disaster.
Its okay, we can just have 10m tied up in goaltending next year
bandwagonesque
I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
- Mar 5, 2014
- 7,167
- 5,477
Management may well have believed he could be this good, and very likely did following the playoffs, but given his age and experience didn't necessarily feel they could rely on it. You can dispute whether Holtby was the right target, but it makes no sense to draw the conclusion from his signing that the team didn't believe Demko could carry the reins.
lawrence
Registered User
- May 19, 2012
- 16,164
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It’s called a transition. Are we going to always have to carry a 4 million dollar backup then ? Wth Jim benning, 3 mill dollar for players on the 4th line.
Pastor Of Muppetz
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
- 26,279
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They obviously believed that Demko was going to be 'this good', otherwise they would have handed Marky the NMC and the 5-6 years.
What they didnt know, was ..could Demko handle the load of an NHL #1 goalie ?..especially in a condensed schedule...Thats why they got Holtby.
accidentally posted in the tank thread..sorry guys
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Peen
Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
- Oct 6, 2013
- 30,410
- 26,154
It is funny to see people defend all of the win now moves they made in 19-20 to accelerate a window even if there was a very dangerous downside to those moves and limited upside (bubble team) - just to change their view and say well we have to sacrifice the short term with letting some guys go for the youth because the long term risks are too high.
I don't disagree with the second portion as we weren't in the right place to give Markstrom and Tanev those deals according to the common sense view, but it is inconsistent with moves made over the last few years that would have suggested they were close to contending.
No one has ever been able to explain the above to me as to why one was ok and the other wasn't from a foresight perspective. If you have defended both of those counterintuitive points, it comes across as being a management homer who defends everything.
I don't disagree with the second portion as we weren't in the right place to give Markstrom and Tanev those deals according to the common sense view, but it is inconsistent with moves made over the last few years that would have suggested they were close to contending.
No one has ever been able to explain the above to me as to why one was ok and the other wasn't from a foresight perspective. If you have defended both of those counterintuitive points, it comes across as being a management homer who defends everything.
I am toxic
. . . even in small doses
Yeah, even 650 bootlickers were talking the other day (or evening, wouldn't want to get that nitpick wrong!) about how management has to evaluate the players they have and make a decision on giving term.
Our management is - once again, and unsurprisingly - horrific at it.
Did I say horrific? I meant worse than horrific.
Svencouver
Registered User
"VAN’s PP is scoring at the second highest rate league-wide, far in excess of their still-stellar 5v4 xGF rate, and Thatcher Demko is stopping everything."
Hey... This sounds awfully familiar...
Hey... This sounds awfully familiar...
I am toxic
. . . even in small doses
Demko's performance is not sustainable. Without even watching the games, one can look at the numbers and see he's on a tear that isn't sustainable in the long run. .962 over the last eight games. For reference, the best single season ever was - guess who - .944 back '70-'71.
And then watching the games, and the posts that get hit, and the team play in front of him, and it simply hammers home that his SV% is not sustainable.
Just like the Vegas series and the last two seasons, vezina level goaltending seems to fool . . . fools . . . into thinking this team is a bubble team.
We're not even that.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
I'm still perfectly optimistic with the tank.
Consider the last 10 games played by each of the Canucks and the 3 teams they have the best chance of overtaking to nab a playoff spot: the Canucks have only gained 2 points on Edmonton, 1 point on Montreal, and 0 points on Calgary.
The Canucks would need a .729 points percentage over their remaining 24 games just to tie Edmonton's pace for the 4th playoff spot.
Even with Demko's remarkable play getting them some points, it's not really gaining them much in the standings.
The draft position is taking a hit, sure, but it's worth it if it means Benning and Co. get fired.
Consider the last 10 games played by each of the Canucks and the 3 teams they have the best chance of overtaking to nab a playoff spot: the Canucks have only gained 2 points on Edmonton, 1 point on Montreal, and 0 points on Calgary.
The Canucks would need a .729 points percentage over their remaining 24 games just to tie Edmonton's pace for the 4th playoff spot.
Even with Demko's remarkable play getting them some points, it's not really gaining them much in the standings.
The draft position is taking a hit, sure, but it's worth it if it means Benning and Co. get fired.
Lindgren
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2005
- 6,046
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I was hoping that the team would plummet far enough, fast enough, that there would be pressure even from ownership to unload some expiring contracts for picks, even if those picks were very late. My best guess now is that the rise to mediocrity will continue, and that Benn, Sutter, and Pearson will move on in the off season, continuing management's deplorable asset management.
I have no sense of whether Benning will be fired or not. It will depend on market pressure, I guess. If Francesco thinks that he won't be able to sell season tickets with Benning at the helm, he'll make a move.
I am toxic
. . . even in small doses
It's sad that an actual analysis of Benning's performance - starting in June/July 2014 and culminating in 2015 with the Sbisa/Sutter deals - did not get Benning and Weisbrod fired. We never needed to wait and see for seven years that it would be a decade of futility. We already knew. Foresight was 20/20.
Rather, it will take missing the playoffs, largely due bad coaching leading to a poor start for the first dozen games or so and continued lack of a proper system (if in fact we can call praying on your goaltender and special teams to bail you out a system at all).
I mean, in this case the ends absolutely justify the (half decade late) means of getting this incompetent management group fired, it's just sad because once again it points to yet another institutional failing.
Decisions - rightly or wrongly - are still being made knee-jerk, regardless that in this case the owner's idiotic knee jerk reaction will be in line with not only Benning's horrific past performance, but also in line with Benning's current horrific performance. In other words, if the Canucks did go on a .729 tear over 24 games because Demko is putting up .960 facing 45+ shots each night and made the playoffs, Benning should still be fired. He wouldn't, but he should. People have difficulty grasping that. But people also have difficulty grasping opportunity cost, like the fact that the opportunity cost of JT Miller was a lottery pick.
But of course in knee-jerk Canucks world that would never happen - rather if we did go on an unsustainable tear (.729 winning% and .960 SV% against 45+ shots/game) we would get moronic punditry idiotically saying we owe Benning an apology and the team is in the best position to end Canada's Cup drought.
On the other hand, if Green was kidnapped and replaced by aliens, and our team actually had a system, and the team went .729 over the remaining games with our goalies putting up decent league average goaltending, then Benning shouldn't be . . . well, yes, in that case Benning should still be fired from a cannon into the sun, and the aliens should be put in charge of the team.
Still, knee-jerk reactions are problematic. It put the Canucks on the path of the Boston model, which was a huge mistake, and predicted at the time. It put them on the path of firing Gillis, instead of just making him solely President, make Gilman GM and Henning as AGM and probably a couple more AGM's. Not so much predicted at the time, that I am aware of.
Anyway, it is a fascinating study of institutional inertia. Whether we are talking legalization of mj which - ignoring the idiotic criminalization to begin with - was obviously needed decades and decades before we are finally moving there. Same with human caused climate change. And I see the same deflections, distortions, disingenuous arguments, and pretending to be neutral or some other falsehood, as selfish interest groups attempt to delay movement to improve things. As soon as one sees those tactics, it only takes a little digging to see whether the arguments - whether it is meaningless like a sports franchise's GM, or meaningful like drug use and abuse, or critical like the gloabal climate - hold any water.
Ignoring the horrific costs in some of those cases, it's fascinating watching it play out over an over again.
BenningHurtsMySoul
Unfair Huggy Bear
I honestly couldn't care less about this team right now. They're publicly celebrating mediocrity that is being sustained by star goaltending.
theguardianII
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2020
- 3,321
- 1,743
While the goalie IS part of the team he is only one part.
This team still doesn't have enough young "core" pieces to be content with.
Even if Podkolzin plays this season he has been scouted as more of a "complimentary" type player, possibly not quite a core player, possibly.
As far as salaries and the flat cap, pay the 5 core players 9 mil each for max term at some point, stagger the contracts if possible. That's about 60% or so of the cap.
The team does not have the depth and it CANNOT have Benning running the show, it is clear his "vision" is the mushy middle, making the playoffs is his measure of success.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
lol. And we have a 4+ million in cap space garbage backup goalie next season. (MORE than Luongo's cap recapture penalty).
They obviously believed that Demko was going to be 'this good', otherwise they would have handed Marky the NMC and the 5-6 years.
What they didnt know, was ..could Demko handle the load of an NHL #1 goalie ?..especially in a condensed schedule...Thats why they got Holtby.
accidentally posted in the tank thread..sorry guys
All these words that can be summarized as: they didn't know any better.
Do you know what would happen if I f***ed up as badly at work and said the same thing? License, GONE.
EDIT:
They also obviously believed that Eriksson will something like a 70 pt player.
They also obviously believed that OJ and JV will be super stars
They also obviously believed that Sutter is foundational player
Guess what, Benning "obviously believed" in a lot of things. Taking a look at reality shows how delusional and incompetent that man was, has been, and will likely be.
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I am toxic
. . . even in small doses
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