Speculation: 20/21 Season Roster Talk @ Line Combos

[punk_o_holic]

LeBrun: Latest trade talk on Tyler Johnson, Josh Anderson and Patrik Laine
LeBrun: Latest trade talk on Tyler Johnson, Josh Anderson and Patrik Laine

To add to the Anderson talks, I read or watched something yesterday where they said probably a dozen teams would be interested in Anderson. If they can't sign him, hopefully they can get teams into a bidding war.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Trading Korpisalo would probably be the worst move in franchise history up until now.

There is no way trading him would be worse than letting Ray Whitney walk in free agency or trading Voracek for Jeff Carter.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I hope everything ends up being OK.

I also hope this doesn't get misconstrued but this also concerns me with how much the team can count on Texier this coming season. If the personal issue is bad enough he left Finland to return and play in France how focused will he be on coming back to the USA to start training camp in November/December if the issue hasn't resolved yet?

Clearly family is important to him, as it should be, but if he's not mentally healthy, able to focus and ready to contribute it will hurt him and the team

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I agree. But there is also the possibility it goes the other way. That is the crap shoot with trades. I woul be surprised if TJ has a .6ppg season with us because Torts' system doesn't emphasize offense nor would he have the talent surrounding him that he has in TB. That being said if he was available at the right price I think he is better than the alternatives and he should make his line mates better.

In context. I'm not comparing his raw stats in TBL to what might be his raw stats in CBJ. Just whether or not he might make the roster/lineup overall improved, so that players who were going to play here either way next season would be improved because of appropriate fit.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[DJA]

ok, now that trade officially sucks

 

[EspenK]

ok, now that trade officially sucks

Wait till Sonny pots 30 this season

 

[DJA]

Also, that 2014 draft was a tire fire. Elvis is the last hope

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Wait till Sonny pots 30 this season

Have they already announced he'll be in San Diego?

 

[koteka]

ok, now that trade officially sucks

Shore played in the playoffs. Milano might have been behind Matteau based on how we were playing - emphasizing back checking and staying above the puck. If he pots 20+ goals for a team way out of the playoffs, we can call him Duclair Jr.

Not a great trade, but not the worst in franchise history.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Not a great trade, but not the worst in franchise history.

How bad would a trade have to be to be worse than Voracek et al for C*rt*r?

 

[DJA]

Shore played in the playoffs. Milano might have been behind Matteau based on how we were playing - emphasizing back checking and staying above the puck. If he pots 20+ goals for a team way out of the playoffs, we can call him Duclair Jr.

Not a great trade, but not the worst in franchise history.

Never said it was. shore was always going to be let go after one season. I would’ve taken a draft pick, any draft pick.

 

[koteka]

Never said it was. shore was always going to be let go after one season. I would’ve taken a draft pick, any draft pick.

I don’t think it was a bad trade. I see it like the Kinkaid trade. It was to add depth for the end of the season and the playoffs. And, like the Kinkaid trade, it looks wise if injuries happen, and looks like a waste if players stay healthy.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Also, that 2014 draft was a tire fire. Elvis is the last hope

I’ve always (secretly) felt jarmos draft pedigree was overrated. His first two drafts here show me that. But then you get a draft like 2015, and the drafting of PLD over Puljujarvi and understand where it comes from.

So yeah basically jarmo isn’t some super scout. He’s average.

 

[ViD]

I’m tired of this Anderson negotiations, to be honest. He’s truly relying on one good year to get a sweet long term deal which might turn out to be a disaster for us.

Jarmo, it’s time to ship Anderson, one of the goalies and a good prospect for the long term 2C solution.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

Never said it was. shore was always going to be let go after one season. I would’ve taken a draft pick, any draft pick.

I thought at the time we also should’ve taken like a 3rd or 4th round pick or whatever we could've gotten, but I can see why we didn’t. At the time, we were on the playoff bubble and had Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, Atkinson and Texier out long-term/on IR.

I presume we probably would’ve taken a mid-round pick instead of Shore had we known that 12 teams per conference were going to make the postseason/all those aforementioned guys would be back for the postseason.

 

[majormajor]

Shore was underperforming his qualifying offer even before the trade so it shouldn't have been any surprise that he is now being let go. I'd guess that Jarmo had that in mind when he made the trade. What I'm more unsure about is whether he could have taken a pick instead.

I thought at the time we also should’ve taken like a 3rd or 4th round pick or whatever we could've gotten, but I can see why we didn’t. At the time, we were on the playoff bubble and had Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, Atkinson and Texier out long-term/on IR.

I presume we probably would’ve taken a mid-round pick instead of Shore had we known that 12 teams per conference were going to make the postseason/all those aforementioned guys would be back for the postseason.

I'd also much rather have a pick, but I'm not so sure we could have gotten one. Do we have any clue that Milano would have possibly been able to return something better? What many of us have said for years on the Jackets boards is something like "Milano will be a scorer on a bad team". I think that is how pro scouts probably see him. If you just sold off your players and need someone in your top six, like Anaheim, then Milano will take care of that. But no one thought he'd help build a winning team.

I don’t think it was a bad trade. I see it like the Kinkaid trade. It was to add depth for the end of the season and the playoffs. And, like the Kinkaid trade, it looks wise if injuries happen, and looks like a waste if players stay healthy.

The Kinkaid trade was not smart. To me that is the sort of move that only teams like Tampa and Colorado should make, and even then probably not. The chances that Kinkaid would have been both needed and have been a difference maker were together infinitesimally small, lower than the chances of the 5th rounder turning into a great player. We'd probably have been just as well off running with Kivlenieks as #3 anyways, he just had a better season than Kinkaid. That's sort of like how Stenlund ended up playing better than Devin Shore, though we did have a major injury crisis at the time of the Shore trade so it at least made a modicum of sense.

 

[Monk]

I’ve always (secretly) felt jarmos draft pedigree was overrated. His first two drafts here show me that. But then you get a draft like 2015, and the drafting of PLD over Puljujarvi and understand where it comes from.

So yeah basically jarmo isn’t some super scout. He’s average.

I don't think there's such a thing in reality as a "super scout" because it's inherently such an utter crap shoot. I think Jarmo is great at doing what he (and his staff) believes is right and sticking to it, regardless of the media/consensus/conventional wisdom, and that's critical for the role he plays.

Not to mention that development plays an equal role in "being a good scout" if you ask me. If the team you scout for sucks at helping young players reach their potential, you'll probably never be considered a good scout.

 

[koteka]

I’ve always (secretly) felt jarmos draft pedigree was overrated. His first two drafts here show me that. But then you get a draft like 2015, and the drafting of PLD over Puljujarvi and understand where it comes from.

So yeah basically jarmo isn’t some super scout. He’s average.

Maybe he has been average if you factor in every draft, but at least he is trending in the right direction. Maybe he learned which scouts are the best from those first two drafts as a result. Maybe he learned when to trust his gut and when to listen to someone else.

For example, if you have 5 different possible viewpoints - scout A, scout B, scout C, Torts’ view, and your own view, hopefully over time you can evaluate which view or views you should rate higher than others. How does Jarmo handle it if he wants X, but 2 scouts and Torts want Y, and the third scout wants Z. It’s not a vote, but sometimes you need to let people convince you and sometimes you need to stand firm.

 

[Monstershockey]

The AHL site says Sherwood accepted a qualifying offer from the Jackets.

Shore was probably the best (only?) offer they got for Milano. I thought for sure the year before they were washing their hands with him, but in the playoffs for the Monsters, he really played well. He was digging for pucks, annoying other players to the point they would try to get him to fight, and he had 10 points in 8 games. It was the best I saw him play in Cleveland. That is probably why they gave him another look, thinking he finally got it. He looked like the same old guy this year though, so that was that.

The list of guys they didn't offer really is no surprise. Bittner and Scott both improved since they have been here, but not good enough to make the jump, or wait around for. Would love to see MacInnis improve enough to move up. I like his game, but he still needs to be better to make Columbus.

 

[majormajor]

Maybe he has been average if you factor in every draft, but at least he is trending in the right direction. Maybe he learned which scouts are the best from those first two drafts as a result. Maybe he learned when to trust his gut and when to listen to someone else.

For example, if you have 5 different possible viewpoints - scout A, scout B, scout C, Torts’ view, and your own view, hopefully over time you can evaluate which view or views you should rate higher than others. How does Jarmo handle it if he wants X, but 2 scouts and Torts want Y, and the third scout wants Z. It’s not a vote, but sometimes you need to let people convince you and sometimes you need to stand firm.

2013 was with the old scouts, and it was a really bad year to have 3 picks between #14 and #27. I don't know that they actually performed worse than their draft slots would suggest given that pool of talent. Bjorkstrand was certainly first round caliber to help make up for the bad day one.

Jarmo brought in Ville Siren and Josef Boumedienne just after the 2013 draft. Siren and Jarmo had already worked together in St. Louis, and all of those guys are from a small circle of Finnish former players that became scouts (I just looked it up and Boumedienne actually grew up in Finland. I had thought he was from Montreal, I think confusing him with Alain Nasreddine). I'm sure they already knew each other's tendencies so well and had a lot of trust in each other.

Their first draft together didn't go well. I don't know what they were thinking with Milano. Funny enough Milano had two teammates taken right next to him - Larkin one spot ahead and Alex Tuch two spots later, and Milano handily outscored both of them in that draft year. Collins, again a bad pick, which many of us wondered about at the time.

Since then the draft performance has been very good. 2015 was outstanding, 2016 looks more and more like that as well, and 2017 was huge value on where we were picking. The real kicker for me is that even in the years with bad 1st rounds the team was able to land Bjorkstrand (2013) and Merzlikins (2014). That's huge. I would say that this group of scouts' draft record much better than average.

 

[thebus88]

sign and trade for Anderson seems pointless to me. If we agree on a deal why not keep the guy?

To get a better offensive player.

A guy that can handle the puck and shoot much better that Anderson.

 

[thebus88]

I’m tired of this Anderson negotiations, to be honest. He’s truly relying on one good year to get a sweet long term deal which might turn out to be a disaster for us.

Jarmo, it’s time to ship Anderson, one of the goalies and a good prospect for the long term 2C solution.

Anderson + Merzlikins + Peeke

 

[Toe Pick]

Saw this nugget in the trade forum via The Athletic:

Kuemper is now 30 and the price, which could include a first-round pick, could be steep. Same with either of Columbus’ two goalies — Elvis Merzlikins and Joonas Korpisalo. The Blue Jackets reportedly want at least a top-two center or winger for one of them, and the Wild are a team that needs centers.

Change in goal: Wild send longtime No. 1 netminder Devan Dubnyk to San Jose